Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Occult
Hi there all, as some of you may know I have been classified as Bipolar in 2009. I have had to date 3 manic episodes. (1. May 2009 2. April 2010 3. April 2011) Each time I took myself off the medication. I am writing to you from the clinic where we are working to get the Lithium levels correct in my blood. It has been quite an experience, as my body adjusts to the Lithium. Lots of purging and weird tastes in my mouth, but I am happy to continue this treatment, purely because it hasn't affected my mood - it has only made me less anxious.
The purpose of this discussion is really to make you aware of the dangers that the teacher - student relationship faces in the modern day world. I made my psyciatrist aware of the fact that I have a teacher and that I belong to a lineage - and that I do certain practices. I have however also told her that I do not even have the telephone number of my teacher and I haven't seen him in his physical manifestation since 2009. We contact occassionally on email. What I didn't tell her is that the student and teacher are connected in samadhi.
She went on to say that I should be careful because it sounds to her like an occult. I didn't know the meaning of the word - and googled it on my blackberry as we were talking - and it really comes down to "secret". Again, something I didn't tell her is that alot of the teachings are secret, especially those in the Vajrayana tradition. Something that I did tell her and that I will tell everyone here is that my teacher has never told me or asked me to do anything. In the times that I have seen him - I have only received the profound instruction of the Dharma.
After some discussion - I think I settled her doubts - but I never divulged any information about my lineage or about the secrecy that is the relationship between student and teacher in our tradition. I will also say - that for the first time in my life I feel undistracted - and I know that I am a naughty person - naughty in the sense that I like to have people question and doubt themselves from time to time - because from personal experience, it is in these moments that we are capable of great accomplishments on our spiritual path.
It is only a foolish man who thinks he knows everything. A wise man is the one who admits to himself that he knows nothing. **eamiuomz
The purpose of this discussion is really to make you aware of the dangers that the teacher - student relationship faces in the modern day world. I made my psyciatrist aware of the fact that I have a teacher and that I belong to a lineage - and that I do certain practices. I have however also told her that I do not even have the telephone number of my teacher and I haven't seen him in his physical manifestation since 2009. We contact occassionally on email. What I didn't tell her is that the student and teacher are connected in samadhi.
She went on to say that I should be careful because it sounds to her like an occult. I didn't know the meaning of the word - and googled it on my blackberry as we were talking - and it really comes down to "secret". Again, something I didn't tell her is that alot of the teachings are secret, especially those in the Vajrayana tradition. Something that I did tell her and that I will tell everyone here is that my teacher has never told me or asked me to do anything. In the times that I have seen him - I have only received the profound instruction of the Dharma.
After some discussion - I think I settled her doubts - but I never divulged any information about my lineage or about the secrecy that is the relationship between student and teacher in our tradition. I will also say - that for the first time in my life I feel undistracted - and I know that I am a naughty person - naughty in the sense that I like to have people question and doubt themselves from time to time - because from personal experience, it is in these moments that we are capable of great accomplishments on our spiritual path.
It is only a foolish man who thinks he knows everything. A wise man is the one who admits to himself that he knows nothing. **eamiuomz
0
Comments
What type of linage do you belong to and what type of meditation are you practicing?
I have studied Occult/Esoterics for 4 years and have had indescribable experiences...
I just think the western mind has a difficulty in letting go in order to accept the age old traditions of these lineages
And yes, many westerners when suggested Occult or Esoterics they think it's negative and devilish.
The irony is that the psychiatrist who initially bandied this term to the OP (if indeed that's what she said) probably isn't much better informed about occultism herself. For the most part, we Americans don't really look into the underlying reality of things, we allow pop culture to form our opinions.
Buddhism is probably the least "occult" system I can think of, because the whole idea is that liberation is something every one of us can achieve on our own: there are no mysteries or secrets, no high priests or inner circles or secret rites or brotherhoods: the Noble Eightfold Path is the way to become free from suffering: everything the Buddha had to say was open to everyone to hear.
This is what I was saying. Most people who come across the word "occult" today will not think of its literal translation. Rather, thoughts of black magic, incantations, and devil worship will come to mind.
This isn't true. Tibetan Buddhism is full of practices from medieval India, spells (mantras), secret teachings and rituals, etc. I had assumed that rainbowwarrior was a Vajrayana practitioner, by her description.
Unfortunately, alien ideas inevitably creep in along the way, like local "gods" and superstitions, attaching themselves to the teaching, where their hold deepens through long tradition. It is always this way with religions--the same thing happened with Christianity--but these ideas have little to do with the original message.
May you find the causes of true happiness within.
BuckyG
Or perhaps you meant that question figuratively, as in "apparently you don't know how it is with TB practitioners."
I have nothing against Tibetan Buddhism: I embrace all schools of Buddhism, and I've practiced (a little) in the Tibetan tradition, along with several other schools of Buddhism.
In my experience, the Tibetan tradition is far more laden with extra stuff than any of the other schools I've practiced in, but I still regard Tibetan Buddhists as my brothers and sisters (or perhaps "cousins" is a more accurate term).
Personally, I've become really ambivalent about TB, but...that's just me.
Perhaps o.p. is getting clarification from the therapist?
Warmly,
Bn
i did not read all your comments because i only have a couple of minutes and some of them are really long. she used occult - english is not my first language and I tend to make silly mistakes like that from time to time.
she has a concern BECAUSE it is secret/hidden teachings
but good news - we had a great long talk today - and I think she is starting to light in the same way that I also see the light when I talk with her
Oh and Leon - we do the Rainbow Meditation to cultivate the Practice of the Art of Observation
Please note, despite your intentions you do more harm then good.
rainbowwarrior , Please finish your treatment and then move to other questions in your life.
Here it goes:
I really hate how good wishers here get into medical cases.
Please note, despite your intentions you do more harm then good.
You have even confused me, with your posts and analysis of the word.
I did not ask the question to start with but I am still puzzled with your concepts...
The luck of empathy comes to my mind. :coffee:
rainbowwarrior , Please finish your treatment and then move to the other questions in your life.
BE VERY CAREFUL MIXING "SPIRITUALITY" WITH MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT IN BIPOLAR DISORDER. IT'S DANGEROUS. GET YOUR MENTAL HEALTH SORTED OUT FIRST.
(Registered Nurse, thirty years, enough psychiatric nursing to know what I'm taliking about. My brother-in-law also has bipolar disorder, and my sister says that when he starts talking about talking to God and so forth she knows it's time to take him to the hospital.)
What do you mean when you say that you and your teacher are "connected in samadhi"?
Good luck on your path and sorting out your bipolar meds.
SherabDorje & bravehawk are addressing crucial points about your situation. I basically concur with what they've said. They're echoing Buddha's advice on heedfulness (self guidance)and self-refuge. The causes of true happiness come from within. That's where the only "secret" you need to know exists.
May you find peace in your life.
BG
peace
I do not have just an over the internet relationship with my teacher - I have travelled across the world to visit him and I have spent more than 5 years working with him and my sangha. We live our lives by the Buddhist philosophies, but we accept that we are the laypersons, right at the bottom of the refuge tree - but we also aspire to be more than that.
With regards to using words like Lineage or physical manifestation - if you do not understand that everyone within the community come from a lineage - or that you are a physical manifestion yourself - then I don't know what to tell you - I choose wisely - because I am aware of my body, speech and mind. But that is not for discussion here. In fact I think what you guys are doing here is shameful. Who cares for your opinions? Go and study and be enlightened - you all seem to know the answer, but none claim to be enlightened. Why is that?
I don't know about manifestation. I think that is something that a lot of us would be unfamiliar with. I find it ironic that people say there cannot be esoteric teachings due to rigid adherence to a canon that was voted on apparently and probably involved politics. After all why would a whole community agree? This agreement did not happen in the Christian religion. It doesn't happen on this forum. So why would the whole sangha agree on a canon? Second buddha didn't set any of his words in stone. He didn't say that esoteric teachings were wrong. Rather he said that he hadn't given any. The idea of buddhism is that his followers can attain realization. Otherwise it would be worship of buddha and feeling he is wise. But no his followers can also have realization and with skillful means teach the message that they honed in on through studying buddha. Over generations.
BTW, a person should never go off their meds for bipolar without the psychiatrist's supervision.
Furthermore, do you understand the concern expressed here about mixing bipolar and religion? This is serious and the message needs to be clear.
There is no such thing as a student-teacher 'special connection' in samadhi. Samadhi is just concentration. You needed samadhi to write this post. You need samadhi to play X-Box games.
Even if you are a Vajrayana practitioner, the role of the so called Guru is just to point you to the right direction and right understanding of the doctrine, like a regular teacher, and make the results more visible, somewhat like an example of what happens when you follow the path - just like those before and after pictures regarding a Diet, ok?
Most practitioners of any religion don't have personal info on their teachers.
"She went on to say that I should be careful because it sounds to her like an occult. I didn't know the meaning of the word - and googled it on my blackberry as we were talking - and it really comes down to "secret". Again, something I didn't tell her is that alot of the teachings are secret, especially those in the Vajrayana tradition. Something that I did tell her and that I will tell everyone here is that my teacher has never told me or asked me to do anything. In the times that I have seen him - I have only received the profound instruction of the Dharma."
The so called secret teachers of the Vajrayana are not so secret as people expect them to be. Turns out even people who are just curious and don't know the first thing about buddhism can attend certain Highest Yoga Tantra initiations.
Besides, it is not like you can say Tantra points to anything new. It is the same old stuff in a new package, that's all: refuge, generating bodhicitta, emptiness - all in a new package.
My teacher's teacher is Khenpo Gyamptso Tsultrim Rinpoche. He said his students could meet him in non-conceptual awareness.
So if at the end of the day, you haven't handed authority off to someone else... you'll be ok.
This "samadhi" is developed during the time that I was receiving the oral transmission from my teacher. In essence is like guru yoga - your focus is on that of your guru. No matter whether you are sleeping, awake etc etc.
Is also a journey of the mind - because this was new to me some 5 years ago - but now the guru holds a comfortable place within my mind - and my students are also appearing to me. But is slowly slowy.
Good luck to you all !
Rainbowwarrior is on her own path, and she's doing her best. Her experience is her own--if it doesn't match everyone else's experience, that's okay: it's her path, not ours. Bombarding her with criticism is not going to help.
As for the person who said "you need samadhi to play X-Box," I'd say your understanding of samadhi is greatly in need of development, and you probably aren't qualified to be teaching others what it is.
This is like a group of confused people, all trying to tell someone else how not be confused.
Samadhi is a place of clarity from what I understand. Reality diffuses out into space and then it focuses at a point. So in meditation we drift off from doing our practice and then VAM we come back to the practice. That is samadhi from what I understand.
Trungpa Rinpoche said that meditation experiences are ordinary. Its like the sun rises every day and only one day you really notice it and it is extra ordinary.
And if I wasn't having this discussion here - I would not have known what to tell my student about our connection - but is also samadhi! Don't get too caught in the words - try to use them mindfully and intentionally - like "manifestation" - but don't jump in as if you know something - no one knows anything - knowing and understanding comes from having the experience.
Peace out :-)