What is Mara?

shanyin

What is Mara in Buddhism? What was it to the Buddha and his earliest followers, and to Buddhist scholars?

I wanted to ask this because a Christian friend of mine was talking about how he refused to meditate because that's when the devil's demons try to mess with your mind and things like that.

shanyin

Besides that I'm still interested.

federica

Then he is admitting that they have more power than he has.

Mara is generally viewed as a manifestation of the mental afflictions of every kind which assault us when we are not mindful and in control of our present moment.

Floating_Abu

It's interesting you say that. I have also heard from Christians to not meditate because of evil influences.

Anyway as federica says it is generally viewed as the afflictions that one's mind may conjure up.

I believe one of our teachings is everything which is viewed, cognised, seen, experienced is not yet the Deathless. Thus Mara may be many things.

Cinorjer

Mara is fairly accurately translated as demon, and like the english word, can be either a metaphorical statement of inner conflict (struggling with your demons) or a literal supernatural evil being, in the way a Christian would define it.

First, you are not going to change any Christian's mind about their belief that meditiation is dangerous and allows literal demons to possess you. Their leaders have taken the stories of Buddha arguing with Mara out of context to scare people, and you're not going to be listened to. It doesn't help that we do have a few schools who take that whole "magical mantra" thing seriously, and that is definitely a summoning in their eyes. Magic words? Real or not, it's a tool of the Devil in their minds, unless it's calling on the Lord.

Of course meditation is simply sitting quietly, doing nothing. But if a person is scared of it, then you can't convince them otherwise. All you can really do is tell them what you experienced, if they are really interested.

Liesel

"a literal supernatural evil being, in the way a Christian would define it" Many Thais believe in spirits as well, evil or good. And they are all happy if you tell them you can see them, especially the devas.

seeker242

The way I see it, Mara is greed, lust, anger, jealousy, laziness, hatred, ill-will, pride, conceit, etc. The devils demons are already in almost everyone's mind.

Cinorjer

"a literal supernatural evil being, in the way a Christian would define it" Many Thais believe in spirits as well, evil or good. And they are all happy if you tell them you can see them, especially the devas.

You're right, as many people define it, not just Christians.

NamelessRiver

"I wanted to ask this because a Christian friend of mine was talking about how he refused to meditate because that's when the devil's demons try to mess with your mind and things like that."

Well, in theory, Christians do have meditation-like techniques, except they call it contemplation and mostly just monks do it. They even have hermits and detailed stages of their path in certain commentaries (a lam rim of sorts).

Floating_Abu

"a literal supernatural evil being, in the way a Christian would define it" Many Thais believe in spirits as well, evil or good. And they are all happy if you tell them you can see them, especially the devas.

In the awakening process of meditation we are bringing awareness to the conditions of the mind here and now, just by being aware of this sense of 'I am, I am not'. Contemplate the feelings of pain or pleasure the memories, thoughts and opinions as impermanent, anicca. The characteristic of transiency is common to all conditions. How many of you spent the day really investigating this in every possible way while sitting, standing or lying down? Investigate what you see with your eye, hear with your ear, taste with your tongue, smell with your nose, feel and experience with your body, think with your mind.

The thought 'I am' is an impermanent condition. The thought 'I am not' is an impermanent condition. Thoughts, memories, consciousness of thinking, the body itself, our emotions -- all conditions change. In the practice of meditation you've got to be quite serious, brave and courageous. You've got to really investigate, dare to look at even the most unpleasant conditions in life, rather than try to escape to seek tranquillity, or to forget about everything. In vipassana the practice is one of looking into suffering; it's a confrontation with ourselves, with what we think of ourselves, with our memories, and our emotions, pleasant, unpleasant or indifferent. In other words when these things arise and we are aware of suffering, rather than rejecting, repressing or ignoring this, we take the opportunity to examine it.

...

So in practice we are looking at the universe as it is being reflected in our minds. It does not matter what anyone else happens to experience; one meditator will sit here and experience all sorts of brilliant lights, colours, fascinating images, Buddhas, celestial beings, even smell wonderful odours, and hear divine sounds, and think, 'What a wonderful meditation, such brilliance came, "the radiance" -- a divine being came like a radiant angel, touched me and I felt this ecstasy. The most wonderful ecstatic experience of my whole life...waited my whole life for this experience.' Meanwhile the next one is thinking, 'Why doesn't something like that ever happen to me. I sat for a whole hour in pain with an aching back, depressed, wanting to run away, wondering why on earth I'd come to this retreat anyway.' Another person might say, 'I can't stand all those people who have those silly ideas and fantasies, they disgust me, they just develop this terrible hatred and aversion in me. I hate the Buddha image sitting in the window, want to smash it. I hate Buddhism and meditation!'

Now which of these three people is the good meditator? Compare the one who sees devas dancing in heaven, the one that is bored, indifferent and dull, or the one full of hatred and aversion? Devas and angels dancing in the celestial realms are anicca, are impermanent. Boredom is anicca, impermanent. Hatred and aversion is anicca, impermanent. So the good meditator, the one who is practising in the right way is looking at the impermanent nature of these conditions.

- Venerable Sumedho
From: http://amaravati.org/abmtrial/documents/the_way_it_is/02itm.html

Floating_Abu

"I wanted to ask this because a Christian friend of mine was talking about how he refused to meditate because that's when the devil's demons try to mess with your mind and things like that."

Well, in theory, Christians do have meditation-like techniques, except they call it contemplation and mostly just monks do it. They even have hermits and detailed stages of their path in certain commentaries (a lam rim of sorts).

Yes unfortunately mainstream Christianity no longer seems to emphasis meditation/reflection/silent contemplation so much but I think they still exist.

Also the older (so called) Christian contemplatives/mystics also did meditative practices.

But the more recent versions do not seem to emphasise it on the whole, which is a pity, I think.

Floating_Abu

The way I see it, Mara is greed, lust, anger, jealousy, laziness, hatred, ill-will, pride, conceit, etc. The devils demons are already in almost everyone's mind.

It is said in Buddhism to find the source of so called good AND so called evil. Rather than seeing it as a demon, the encouragement is to watch/study/clarify etc

FWIW

Best wishes,
Abu

Floating_Abu

Of course meditation is simply sitting quietly, doing nothing. But if a person is scared of it, then you can't convince them otherwise. All you can really do is tell them what you experienced, if they are really interested.

I would not encourage Christians towards practices they deem as evil etc. But it is interesting to note: the fear they may feel, we (as Buddhist practitioners) are encouraged to feel openly and watch/experience, for one that is taught to see it as other than that, may run from and therefore ACT ON that fear. It is a lost opportunity, I think.

thickpaper

I see Mara as the world, the source of Dukka. It is often personified in the texts.

vinlyn

Interesting discussion, but it seems like people see their view of Mara as "THE" view of Mara. And, see there as being one Christian view of Mara. In both cases, there are differing views aplenty.

Jason

It's true that in some cases, Mara is portrayed as an actual being who apparently considers himself the head of the kamavacara (literally 'sensuous sphere') world, especially by traditionalists who tend to take a more literalist approach. Nevertheless, looking at the texts more critically, it's evident that in most contexts, Mara is used in reference to death and/or the psychological clinging to the aggregates that gives rise to suffering or to the mental defilements of greed, hatred and delusion. For more information, see G. P. Malalasekera's entry in the Dictionary of Pali Names.

compassionate_warrior

First, you are not going to change any Christian's mind about their belief that meditiation is dangerous and allows literal demons to possess you. .

Are you sure? Some of the Christian monastic traditions include inner contemplation. I've seen this discussed in meetings between Christian monks and the Dalai Lama. Maybe you and the others here are referring mainly to more fundamentalist sects...? I know Christians who meditate.

Jeffrey

Mara comes at night and eats buddhists who forget to meditate that day :eek:

Cinorjer

First, you are not going to change any Christian's mind about their belief that meditiation is dangerous and allows literal demons to possess you. .

Are you sure? Some of the Christian monastic traditions include inner contemplation. I've seen this discussed in meetings between Christian monks and the Dalai Lama. Maybe you and the others here are referring mainly to more fundamentalist sects...? I know Christians who meditate.

Well, you're right that not all Christians take demonic possession literally or think other religions are tools of Satan. I didnt' state that skillfully. I meant for someone who believes meditation is risking demonic possession, your arguements are unlikely to sway them.

Floating_Abu

Mara comes at night and eats buddhists who forget to meditate that day :eek:

:hiding:

Vagabond

I began reading this thread and all the replies not knowing what the word mara even means. My assumption at this point is that it's the inner demons that you are able to realize during meditation. For example, realizing that you are greedy or something of that manner. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, or let me know I'm right please. I'm still learning. Thanks

vinlyn

Pretty good summary here of what Mara represents in Thai (Theravada) Buddhism:

http://the-wanderling.com/mara.html

Mara is frequently depicted in Thai temples as disturbing Buddha while he was contemplating under the bodhi tree.

AbbeyRoad

In my opinion, Mara is simply a metaphor, although different people intemperate it in different ways.

Theswingisyellow

Your clinging to "I" or "mine" is Mara.

MindGate

It's interesting you say that. I have also heard from Christians to not meditate because of evil influences.

They are right. They don't meditate because of Christianity (aka: evil influences).

I keed, I keed.

Vincenzi

mara is literally hindrance, and is related to death (nirvana is described as the deathless)

compassionate_warrior

I've seen the references to Nirvana as the deathless. I don't know what that means.

Zenshin

Hmm, seems to me that we all seem to have our perception of Mara and what it is and the differences on how we see Mara is that our perception of Mara is what we need at this particular stage of our development.

Theswingisyellow

Mara is my teacher, until I realize Mara is just the way things are, and then it's no longer Mara.

santhisouk

Greed, hatred, and delusion (ignorance, unskillful qualities).

hermitwin

Mara has 2 meanings in my language
1 anger
2 forward.