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small/great vehicle & zen
taiyaki
Veteran
From the book entitled, "The Compass of Zen." Words by Zen Master Seung Sahn.
This is for those who want to get a feel for the differences between each Buddhist school.
So each the three main Buddhist traditions just uses different techniques to approach the same experience. Let’s say you don’t understand a watermelon. You never ate watermelon before. If you asked a Hinayana Buddhist to teach you what a watermelon is, you would be hold that a watermelon starts from a seed, this little black seed that is planted in the ground. And then it sprouts, and becomes a little plant. Soon a vine appears on the vine, and then from the flowers a fruit stars to grow. And it gets bigger and bigger and bigger, until it turns into large, roundish fruit. Then perhaps someone eats it, or it rots and the seeds go back into the ground. And the whole cycle starts over again: seed, sprout, vine, blossom, fruit; seed, sprout, vine, bud, blossom, fruit; seed, sprout, vine, bud, blossom, fruit. It is constantly going around and around. Another name for this is the Twelve Link of Dependent Origination. A watermelon seed, and then the fruit, and the seed, and the fruit --- around and around and around, nonstop. This kind of teaching is primary concerned with a consideration of time, or with something changing over time.
Mahayana Buddhism, though, is not about time. We can say that Mahayana Buddhism is primary concerned with space, or “from.” So if you are asking a Mahayana Buddhist about a watermelon, then maybe they would say, “Well, a watermelon has green skin, with bands of dark and light green color wrapping around it. It can be fairly heavy. If you’re in the West, a watermelon looks like a long, stretched-out football; if you’re in Korea, it’s shaped like a soccer ball. Watermelons are hard on the outside and soft on the inside. The watermelon is red on inside, if it’s ripe, and it also has these little black seeds. The red part of the watermelon is sweet, but the white part isn’t so sweet, and the green part is somewhat sour-tasting.” A Mahayana view is concerned with the form is, what the truth of watermelon is A Mahayana Buddhist may also explain how all these characteristics --- the color, weight, taste, and form --- are all ultimately empty.
Zen has a very simple and direct teaching style. Zen means that if you want to understand what a watermelon is, you take a watermelon, get a knife, and cut the watermelon. Then you put a slice into your mouth --- boom! Your experience! Words and speech and books and learning cannot deliver this point. Even if you read one hundreds about watermelons, and hear one hundred lectures, they cannot teach as well as one single bite. “What is a watermelon? Boom! --- “Ahhh! That’s a watermelon!” Then you attain watermelon, and this attainment is forever. This is why Zen teaching is described as “Not dependent on words and speech, a special transmission outside the Sutras, pointing directly to mind; see your true nature, become Buddha.” Understanding a watermelon doesn’t need words and speech --- even a child understands this! This is the manner of Zen teaching.
This is for those who want to get a feel for the differences between each Buddhist school.
So each the three main Buddhist traditions just uses different techniques to approach the same experience. Let’s say you don’t understand a watermelon. You never ate watermelon before. If you asked a Hinayana Buddhist to teach you what a watermelon is, you would be hold that a watermelon starts from a seed, this little black seed that is planted in the ground. And then it sprouts, and becomes a little plant. Soon a vine appears on the vine, and then from the flowers a fruit stars to grow. And it gets bigger and bigger and bigger, until it turns into large, roundish fruit. Then perhaps someone eats it, or it rots and the seeds go back into the ground. And the whole cycle starts over again: seed, sprout, vine, blossom, fruit; seed, sprout, vine, bud, blossom, fruit; seed, sprout, vine, bud, blossom, fruit. It is constantly going around and around. Another name for this is the Twelve Link of Dependent Origination. A watermelon seed, and then the fruit, and the seed, and the fruit --- around and around and around, nonstop. This kind of teaching is primary concerned with a consideration of time, or with something changing over time.
Mahayana Buddhism, though, is not about time. We can say that Mahayana Buddhism is primary concerned with space, or “from.” So if you are asking a Mahayana Buddhist about a watermelon, then maybe they would say, “Well, a watermelon has green skin, with bands of dark and light green color wrapping around it. It can be fairly heavy. If you’re in the West, a watermelon looks like a long, stretched-out football; if you’re in Korea, it’s shaped like a soccer ball. Watermelons are hard on the outside and soft on the inside. The watermelon is red on inside, if it’s ripe, and it also has these little black seeds. The red part of the watermelon is sweet, but the white part isn’t so sweet, and the green part is somewhat sour-tasting.” A Mahayana view is concerned with the form is, what the truth of watermelon is A Mahayana Buddhist may also explain how all these characteristics --- the color, weight, taste, and form --- are all ultimately empty.
Zen has a very simple and direct teaching style. Zen means that if you want to understand what a watermelon is, you take a watermelon, get a knife, and cut the watermelon. Then you put a slice into your mouth --- boom! Your experience! Words and speech and books and learning cannot deliver this point. Even if you read one hundreds about watermelons, and hear one hundred lectures, they cannot teach as well as one single bite. “What is a watermelon? Boom! --- “Ahhh! That’s a watermelon!” Then you attain watermelon, and this attainment is forever. This is why Zen teaching is described as “Not dependent on words and speech, a special transmission outside the Sutras, pointing directly to mind; see your true nature, become Buddha.” Understanding a watermelon doesn’t need words and speech --- even a child understands this! This is the manner of Zen teaching.
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Comments
regards
Which is why Zen koans sound crazy, but, they're actually not.
I've always admired Zen, whether Soto or Rinzai, for being very direct. There's not a lot of foolishness in Zen, and if there is... expect to get hit with a stick!
The Thai Forest tradition is also very pragmatic, and places much more emphasis in practice than on written teachings yada yada.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=owq_ougaikU
with metta
When we are caught in words and concepts, it takes words and concepts to make the first cracks in the shell.
But for the chicken to break free, the shell of words and concepts has to fall apart completely.
words bring interest, we then experience the words ourselves. the words are dropped and now we embody that knowledge.
meditation brings deep insight and peace. meditation is dropped and we bring meditation throughout our whole human experience.
then we use words to point to truth. to bring interest in those who need words.
then we use meditation to bring insight and peace. we learn how meditation can function in our daily lives.
all things if practiced correctly should destroy themselves. meaning they become natural just like the water we drink when we are thirsty.
What is the role/purpose of experiencing the senses/sense objects in practice?
who is it that needs remedy or an end to suffering? where is this person?
where is this suffering located?
don't make suffering or no suffering, what do you have?
when you just see, here, taste, touch, and smell you are just perceiving.
when you are just perceiving things as they are without thinking isn't that the dharma?
what is suffering if we don't label it? is it suffering?
In this case, knowing the difference between reality and illusion is learning to experience the world with a clear mind. When you look at a situation with a clear mind, only then does your response become clear: Help all Beings.
How would you answer the question?
what game?
what you have posted is just mixed up Zen babble
is what you have posted related to what SS said?
your post sounds like a Advaita Satsang robot
"who I am?" oh dear
:eek2:
“What is a watermelon? Boom! --- “Ahhh! That’s a watermelon!” Then you attain watermelon, and this attainment is forever.
you know what non-duality is. these words cannot be truth. they are pointing to something.
everything is empty. so is suffering.
either you take the questions seriously or i am not playing "your game".
where does suffering come from? where is this suffering? where is this person that is suffering?
the question "who am I?" is, for the most part, a meaningless question
but SS did not transmit to me what you have sought to transmit above
how do you know what the buddha said? how can you be so sure?
i will admit that i do not know what the buddha said. you seem pretty sure you know what the buddha said.
how so?
for example, these questions are very Theravadin
your line of inquiry shows what SS said was mere subjective non-sense
SS misrepresented the other schools and was appealing to the ignorant & sensual inclinations of those he was trying to catch
did SS himself have issues with a personal lust for sensual pleasures?
"where does suffering come from?"
the question "where does suffering come from?" is not the same as the question "who am I?"
You asked the question:
How does this help a human being to remedy and/or end suffering?
So I answered with questions. THESE ARE MY QUESTIONS not Seung Sahns. Where does suffering come from? Where is this suffering? Where is this persons that is suffering? Taiyaki questions not SS.
I don't care what SS did, I am only interested in what he pointed to.
if that is the case, are repudiation of the recorded teachings of the Buddha are just moot
the question "where does suffering come from?" is not the same as the question "who am I?"
if I ask the question: "who am I?", my answer will sound like Tick Ngat Harn, that is, "I am the son of my mother, father; student of my teachers; etc" or INTER-BEING
but "where does suffering come from?" the answer is ignorance, wanting, attachment, becoming, etc
when a doctor seeks to cure a problem, they do not ask the question: "Who am I?", "who is he?". instead they ask: "what is the cause of the disease?"
as I said, the question "who am I?" is meaningless and that Ramana Maharishi taught this as an object of meditation does not change my opinion
that you probably disagree with my answer shows your mind is not Buddha
:sawed:
where is this buddha you speak of?
are you saying normal human beings have wisdom, like a buddha, so they dwell in peace 100% of the time, causing no harm & damage to other things, etc?
are you saying Hitler was a Buddha?
please do not reply with babble about "buddha nature"
thanks
ignorance arises from not knowing
not knowing arises from ignorance
ignorance is dispelled by insight
now, there are human beings on this earth engaging in both planning and doing killing, stealing, raping, war making, etc
yet you believe these beings are buddhas
:buck:
as soon as i talk i am not speaking truth.
your mind believes it is "just throwing words around"
your mind believes silence is truth
time for me to go
until next we talk, good friend
:buck:
dung on your head.” This is the same point. True substance, your true nature, and
truth are already beyond speech and words. So, a long time ago, an eminent teacher
said, “The true form has no words. Truth is unmoving.” If you opening your mouth,
you rely on speech and words and language, and so you have already lost the truth.
Words and speech cannot describe this point. Speech and words cannot show your
true nature. So we often say, “Silence is better than holiness.” That is a very
important point.
we come from different traditions, thus we are conditioned differently.
i am talking about letting all that conditioning go for a moment and see what is left.
i don't believe in anything. i just watch what is moment to moment. that is my practice that is my liberation.
always fun to play!
though our intellectual means and maps point the way. insight is what brings us to liberation. holding onto views or words cannot bring liberation. one must directly touch and experience the watermelon.
Don't you have an answer to the question?
An eminent master once said even mentioning "masters", "teachers", "gurus", etc, is like dumping dung on your head.
An eminent master also once said the Buddha can be seen in dog dung
There is more truth to be found in dog dung than in the zombie spaced out mind Oh dear, now the teaching of unmoving permanence, oh dear...hello Brahman
:-/ Non-sense. This is a mind stuck in non-being. The Buddha instructed to transcend both being & non-being. Even the Hsing Ming Ming advises as such but, because you do not understand the Hsing Ming Ming, you do not understand Buddhism.
All things without exception are empty of self, including speech & words.
True. But no speech and no words is not the true nature. I would say whoever said this is struggling to keep their mouth shut. It is just another opinion or belief. That your mind is "conditioned" as you have said is certainly true and certainly an understatement. what is left is silence, space, bright consciousness...but this is not the truth! .
it is a form of liberation but not the Buddha's 100% liberation
how can your mind be be liberated when words & speech are considered "disfunctional" by you?
how can your mind be be liberated when you refer to "my" liberation and "your" true nature, over & over & over again?
:wow: