Pureland and Westerners

CaliGuy819

I am somewhat "new" to study Buddhism in-depth, but am not a stranger to it completely. I have been reading this forum for several months, and noticed it does not seem there are many Pureland practitioners here. I have also noticed that a majority people on here are caucasian/westerners - is there something related to this and staying away from Pureland for any reason? Thoughts, experiences, ideas? Thanks.

hermitwin

Pureland has a simple path to heaven ' western paradise'.
You just chant amitabha's name.
when you are reborn in ' western paradise', everyone can reach enlightenment, guaranteed .
so, you can see why very few westerners are interested.

Cloud

Many westerners come to Buddhism from other religions, and the dominant religion in the west is Christianity. So they were unsatisfied with their belief system, but are unsatisfied with not having any system (i.e. mere atheism), and have turned to Buddhism. In this case they may not want more speculative beliefs about afterlives, but rather be more concentrated on a practice leading to the end of suffering in the here-and-now. That's my guess.

They already could be saved just by believing in Jesus and that he died for their sins (but for some reason turned from this)... chanting Amitabha and expecting to be reborn in a heavenly realm just won't do it for them.

CaliGuy819

Cloud, thank you. I too am making a transition from Christianity, and I understand the points you made. However, is it fait to say that Pureland practitioners just have a blind faith in chanting Amitabha, like Christians have a blind faith in "believing in Jesus" but basically do whatever they want while on earth? I think even Purelander's strive to live a life based on the four noble truths among other things. It is not quite like Christianity.

Cloud

I wouldn't assume that Cali, no, although I have seen PL Buddhists make posts saying all you have to do is have faith and call upon the name of Amitabha... and that sounds familiar.

buddhajunkie

Both Pure Land and Christianity have huge faith-based elements, regardless of what else is involved in those religions. Like Pure Landers, Christians are also supposed to live morally.

Many/most Westerners are drawn to Buddhism for "secular" reasons, i.e., as a form of self-help psychology, rather than trying to find a new faith. Thus the popularity of Zazen, Vipassana and mindfulness.

Cinorjer

I think Cloud has hit it on the head. A "faith based" path such as Pure Land would attract people comfortable with a practice centered around devotion and belief in a Savior and a Heavenly reward, and the Western world already has that.

andyrobyn

Practitioners discussing " faith based " paths and beliefs scares many individuals - may be those who still have unresolved issues from past experiences with people who called themselves Christians or other authority figures who were given positions of power - early life experiences leave scars.

SherabDorje

Some Pure Land masters appear rather sophisticated, like master Hsing Yun:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsing_Yun

Lazy_eye

My understanding is that modern-day Chinese Buddhism combines Chan (Zen) and Pure Land practice. Hsing Yun is in the line of Linji (Rinzai).

Pure Land chanting can be seen as a kind of vocalized meditation practice, with Amitabha as the object of contemplation. Contemplating Amitabha is a way of encountering buddha nature. And it can be done both as a sitting and walking practice, similar to its silent equivalents. So it's not necessarily as removed from Chan/Zen as one might think.

This booklet provides details for those who may be interested:

http://www.abrc.org.au/In One Lifetime_ Pure Land Buddhism.pdf

Shutoku

I am caucasian and Jodo Shinshu.

I guess there are two things to address.
1. what exactly is PL Buddhsim
2. Why is it under-represented in the west

First, I will explain PL from a Shinshu perspective, which is somewhat different from the Chinese PL perspective.

Amida Buddha.
In Shinshu, Amida is as his name suggests...perfectly Awakened Infinite Light and life, manifest in a personified form. Shinran Shonin (1173-1263, the founder of Jodo Shinshu ) however said that the true Buddha is without form. For us, Amida is what some Buddhist might call Absolute Reality, or Thusness, or oneness.
I think that for us in the modern western world the personification aspect makes it a bit more difficult and something of an obstacle, but in India 2500 years ago, I think it made the absolute a bit easier to grasp, especially for common folk.
We definitely tend to talk about Amida like a "person" though. It is however the finger pointing at the moon...Amida's form is the finger, his nature is the moon.
It should be made clear though, that Amida, even in the mythological/personal interpretation, is not the creator, does not answer prayers and change the course of worldly events in the form of miracles, and does not judge us. Amida is not at all the same as the Judeo-Christian God.

Pure Land
Sukhavati means perfect Bliss. Again in Shinshu this is not generally regarded as a place (though of course it is described that way in the Sutras) but as a state. In Shinshu the Pure Land is the same as Nirvana. I do hear Zen people saying the Pure Land is here and now, and while our major Sutra "Shoshinge" ( written by Shinran...it is a summery of the Larger Sutra of Immeasurable Life, and the teachings of the patriarchs of Shinshu) does say "Birth and Death is itself Nirvana" still Shinran did not teach that the PL is here and now, but something experienced after physical death.

Nembutsu
Namo Amida Butsu, which means "I take Refuge in Amida Buddha"
In Shinshu this is not a mantra and there is no importance on how many times it is recited. Recitation does not secure birth in the Pure Land, entrusting oneself to Amida does. This is called "Shinjin" which means true entrusting. This comes to us in this life, here and now, but is not something we achieve on our own, but something that comes to us from Amida. As comparison you cannot make yourself fall in love with someone, that comes to you from somewhere else....so to speak. Recitation of the Nembutsu is then purely an expression of gratitude.

Other Power
This is a doctrine that causes a lot of confusion with other Buddhists. Other Power in Shinshu simply means that we do not rely on our ego based contrived ideas, but rather we rely on Thusness or Amida. Really this is no different than the "letting go" in Meditation based schools.

So that in a nutshell is Jodo Shinshu. A really excellent book I HIGHLY recommend is "Ocean" by Kenneth Tanaka if you are interested in learning more.

Why is it under represented in the West?
Interestingly it has been in North America longer than almost any other form of Buddhism with both Buddhist Churches of America and Jodo Shinshu Buddhist Temples of Canada temples established over 100 years ago.
However those Temples were not really set up for evangelical purposes, but simply to provide Japanese immigrants with a place to practice their religion.
I do feel that due to the superficial similarities to Christianity, Shinshu holds less interest for those who have rejected Christianity and are seeking another path.
I think that for modern people who come to a Shinshu Temple, they come with the image of the Dalai Lama in mind, expecting bald headed monks in robes meditating, and instead encounter Sensei's who look pretty normal and often have wives and children, and a liturgy that has little or no meditation and in many ways resembles a protestant Christian service.
I think also the teaching seems on the surface to have little to offer for them right now, and only a promise of happiness after they die. I think we Shinshu followers in the west are failing dismally in this respect.
We need to find ways of presenting our path that is relevant to modern western people, while still respecting the Japanese roots of our tradition and the Elders who helps establish and keep our Temples going over the last 100 years.

SherabDorje

@Shutoku- Thanks. That really helped me understand a lot more and better.

Cinorjer

Shutoku, I loved hearing someone from the tradition. The few people I've encountered over the years from the Pure Land tradition have been from the state of Hawaii, and they both had Japanese immigrant families. I've been wanting to ask someone who knows, because actual information on the internet is sketchy about the actual school as practiced today and it has me confused, is Jodo Shu or Honen Buddhism and Pure Land Buddhism just different names for the same thing? Or are there different "denominations" within Pure Land?

Shutoku

Jodo Shu is a different denomination.
Shinran was a disciple of Honen, and certainly had no intentions of starting a new sect. It just sort of turned out that way. Honen is a patriarch in Jodo Shinshu as well.
I am not too familiar with the differences in practice, but I think the main difference is that Jodo Shinshu is entirely Other power based, and Jodo Shu is a mix of self power and other power, so for them the number and timing of nembutsu recitations is important. So Jodo Shu would be more like the Chinese PL tradition.

I think there is a Jodo Shu practitioner on this board actually....I recall a thread not too long ago about it.

Invincible_summer

I am a "Westerner" that subscribes to Pure Land (specifically Jodo Shinshu) theology. I think that some of those who are turned off by Pure Land's emphasis on faith (most likely due to coming from an Abrahamic religious background) are attracted to Buddhism because of the "exotic" and "Oriental" nature of it... it's "not Western" and therefore any elements that could be construed as "Western" are not interesting. Anyways...

Here's my take on it (as copied from my blog):

Jodo Shinshu (especially modern practitioners) believe that the Pure Land is more of a metaphysical “state of being.” Much like how many modern Buddhists (esp in the West) believe that rebirth happens moment-to-moment (e.g. I am reborn in a hell realm when I feel hatred, in a heavenly realm when I am blissful), a rebirth in the Pure Land is interpreted as a state where one feels united with compassion and wisdom – united and taking refuge in Amida.

The focus of taking refuge in Amida is known as relying on Other-power (tariki in Japanese).

I used to think that this basically was a theistic form of Buddhism, which confused me. Buddhism was supposed to be an atheistic religion! The Buddha is not worshipped as a god, deities are not worshipped as gods, Buddhas are not gods. So why is Amida Buddha treated like a god?
Then I got it – deities, bodhisattvas (Buddhist saints, pretty much), and Buddhas are all supposed to represent different aspects of humanity. Amida Buddha represents the perfection of compassion and wisdom, and the capacity to be just as perfectly compassionate and wise lays within us. We just need to wholly take refuge and have faith in it.

Taking refuge in the Buddha of Infinite Light and Compassion is essentially taking refuge in those aspects of ourselves. But the vehicle of such compassion and wisdom – the faith in an Other-power – allows us to humble ourselves and to reduce the attachment to ego. It’s a clever psychological trick. It’s also what drives people to fight (and die) for an ideology. To be part of something bigger is a basic human drive.

I believe that placing one’s faith into the hands of something that one feels is more capable and eternal than our limited human form is a very powerful way of practicing humility and selflessness, as well as coping with difficult times. Other-Power is what motivates people towards social change, even if the “other” is more of a political ideology than a symbolic representation.

Prayer – as practiced by Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc – could be considered a form of taking refuge or meditation. Although I personally don’t believe such prayers have any actual effect on the way the world works, I do believe that it is a way to check one’s self-power at the door and put oneself in the refuge of Other-power, lifting psychological and spiritual burdens, acknowledging that one cannot do things by oneself.

BonsaiDoug

Can anyone recommend a book or two of Pure Land basics?

TIA

Shutoku

http://www.amazon.com/Ocean-Introduction-Jodo-Shinshu-Buddhism-America/dp/0965806200

http://www.livingdharma.org/Tannisho/TannishoForeword.html

http://www.amazon.com/Buddhas-World-Monshu-Koshin-Ohtani/dp/0976459426

http://www.bcc.ca/

NOTaGangsta

Slandering the Pureland method is caused by your own ignorance. Just because the negative actions of Christianity, why do everyone assume one cannot goto heaven?

Buddhism includes heaven and hell. Ignoring these teachings just because your own fear doesn't make them go away.