How do we really know how old Buddhism is? (2500 years?)

DaltheJigsaw

Which is 2500 years and then we have Christianity that is 2000 years.
It all seems like propaganda!:) How old is Hinduism? And Islam? Judaism? Hundreds of thousands of years?

SherabDorje

It's my understanding that "recorded history" as we know it goes back to about 6000 BCE maximum, because that's roughly the time limit in which writing was invented and for which we have anything resembling written records, such as Egyptian hieroglyphs and ancient Sumerian script. My date for that may be optimistic, and it may be considerably less than that.

So, in the known history of the world, the known recorded history of the world, there has one person called "Buddha", that is, Siddhartha Gautama, who was born in present-day Nepal in about 500 BCE. It's a simple matter of the known historical record.

If I remember right, there is a Bonpo story about a Buddha-like figure who supposedly appeared about 18,000 years ago, but there is no way of verifying that.

If you read a good world history textbook or look up all these religious movements individually, you should get reliable historical dates for them.

Or is there something in you question that I'm missing?

vinlyn

I agree with Sherab. What's the point of your question? What has propaganda got to do with it. Seems like a pretty straight-forward case of when Buddha lived/died, which was the beginning of his teachings being disseminated.

Cinorjer

Through archeology and historical research. We have Buddhist carvings in India that date back to about the time of Buddha's recorded death, and there is no doubt that the Indian King Ashoka, who ruled from about 260 BC, had converted to Buddhism and it became the official state religion. So by then, it had to be widespread enough to have many followers.

Can you explain what you mean by propaganda? You mean mythic?

vinlyn

In act, wasn't it Asoka that first sent Buddhist monks to Thailand? Although that was, as I recall, a couple of hundred years after Buddha's death.

DaltheJigsaw

I agree with Sherab. What's the point of your question? What has propaganda got to do with it. Seems like a pretty straight-forward case of when Buddha lived/died, which was the beginning of his teachings being disseminated.

I suppose I am a bit skeptical?
I know that it doesn't matter that he was alive or not, it's about the teachings and how they work for each individual. I am just wondering the history behind it all.
Also is it true that the teachings were transmuted or past down from master to student?

DaltheJigsaw

It's my understanding that "recorded history" as we know it goes back to about 6000 BCE maximum, because that's roughly the time limit in which writing was invented and for which we have anything resembling written records, such as Egyptian hieroglyphs and ancient Sumerian script. My date for that may be optimistic, and it may be considerably less than that.

So, in the known history of the world, the known recorded history of the world, there has one person called "Buddha", that is, Siddhartha Gautama, who was born in present-day Nepal in about 500 BCE. It's a simple matter of the known historical record.

If I remember right, there is a Bonpo story about a Buddha-like figure who supposedly appeared about 18,000 years ago, but there is no way of verifying that.

If you read a good world history textbook or look up all these religious movements individually, you should get reliable historical dates for them.

Or is there something in you question that I'm missing?

I suppose I am a bit skeptical?
I know that it doesn't matter that he was alive or not, it's about the teachings and how they work for each individual. I am just wondering the history behind it all.
Also is it true that the teachings were transmuted or past down from master to student?

BuckyG

Do you remember being born? If so, did you look at a clock and note the date? If not, you're going by what you've been told. So, if you can't even be sure of your own age, you certainly can't be sure of a religion's.

DaltheJigsaw

Do you remember being born? If so, did you look at a clock and note the date? If not, you're going by what you've been told. So, if you can't even be sure of your own age, you certainly can't be sure of a religion's.

Great point!
Wonderful point!
I definitely don't feel 26...Lol.I feel older.

BuckyG

Cheers! I don't remember anything from around 4 on. Maybe I am just a brain in a vat or a source of energy for "the machines" like Neo in The Matrix?
:sawed:
Though I seriously doubt it.

DaltheJigsaw

Cheers! I don't remember anything from around 4 on. Maybe I am just a brain in a vat or a source of energy for "the machines" like Neo in The Matrix?
:sawed:
Though I seriously doubt it.

Lol!
Yea, that would make sense!

Cinorjer

I agree with Sherab. What's the point of your question? What has propaganda got to do with it. Seems like a pretty straight-forward case of when Buddha lived/died, which was the beginning of his teachings being disseminated.

I suppose I am a bit skeptical?
I know that it doesn't matter that he was alive or not, it's about the teachings and how they work for each individual. I am just wondering the history behind it all.
Also is it true that the teachings were transmuted or past down from master to student?

Oh, I think you're referring to the recorded, official Dharma Transmission as passed down to each individual school proving their teaching authority comes originally from the Buddha. It's the "transmission outside the sutras" thing that is primarily a Zen school concern. You are right to be skeptical, to some degree.

Given the Eastern culture of ancestor worship, people defined their identity by a long list of ancestors who they honored. Even in a skilled trade, who they learned their craft from in their Master-Apprentice relationship was as important as what they learned. In this climate, it became very important that each Buddhist Master could trace his authority, his Dharma Transmission, in a Student-Master link all the way back to Buddha. But this wasn't like the Catholic Pope, where there can be only one. A Master might give only one, or several, or no students the Dharma seal of approval. Also, this Dharma Transmission was not subject to vote or debate, and might even give this authority in secret and the students have been know to fight over who would take over after a Master's death. Most scholars now agree that after a certain amount of names, the recorded lineage probably contains guesswork and hole filling since the earliest monks did not bother with such lists.

But this has become less important as Buddhism spread and Japan in particular became more open to innovation instead of historical tradition. The strict apprentice structure of supreme importance to a one-on-one Master-Student relationship is gradually being replaced by a classroom structure, where the student might have several teachers and the importance is in what is being taught.

Not that the old supreme Master as unquestioned authority is gone, in any Buddhist school. And this relationship has dangers and the authority has been abused by Masters surrounded by devoted fans. Right now, most schools contain no tradition of disciplining or removing Masters who engage in destructive behavior, instead excusing it as some sort of Enlightened stuff we can't understand. It will be interesting to see if the various Buddhist schools make a conscious effort to turn the Masters back into Teachers.

SherabDorje

Buddhism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Buddhism (Pali/Sanskrit: बौद्ध धर्म Buddha Dharma) is a religion and philosophy encompassing a variety of traditions, beliefs and practices, largely based on teachings attributed to Siddhartha Gautama, commonly known as the Buddha (Pāli/Sanskrit "the awakened one"). The Buddha lived and taught in the northeastern Indian subcontinent some time between the 6th and 4th centuries BCE.[1] He is recognized by Buddhists as an awakened or enlightened teacher who shared his insights to help sentient beings end suffering (or dukkha), achieve nirvana, and escape what is seen as a cycle of suffering and rebirth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism

BuckyG

Why are Wiccans defining Buddhism?