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Have you ever experienced what ZEN call ''Satori'' (A glimpse of enlightenment)
I'm not into the whole lingo of "being in the present moment" because it seems a little abstract to me at time but I did feel like that and I found something about it funny.
May I ask, for those who have experienced it, what was it like? Can you describe it?
Well, the experience came and went and remains only in memories, and even those have become something like an old dream. You want the story?
Many years ago, I was frustrated with my lack of progress in Zen Meditation and none of the formal retreats had done anything but wear me out, so I decided to go on a week-long private retreat instead and get really, really, serious about this Zen meditation stuff. So I borrowed the use of a friend's trailer used during dear season as a hunting camp out in the hills of Southern Ohio, and off I went one summer to be by myself.
Surrounded by nothing but trees and with nothing to do but meditate, I made it three days before I was so bored I could scream. So I started taking "meditation walks" while trying to keep a clear mind. Mostly, I thought about the Zen monks and stories. Well, on the forth day I was walking along a stream when I saw a huge frog sitting in the water, looking at me. I decided that I just had to catch that frog. Don't ask me why, or what I would have done with it. I just had to get that frog in my hands.
Have you ever tried to catch a frog in its own element? I chased that frog up and down that stream for a long time, with it waiting until I just touched it before slipping away, with me getting wetter and more frustrated. Finally I found myself sitting in the water, panting, and that damned frog popped up in the water just out of reach again and looked me in the eyes.
And satori happened. First it was like I was the frog, looking at this silly human, then there was no difference between me and the frog or anything else. Looking back, that's all I can say about it. I don't know how long I sat in that water with the frog, but eventually I did get back to the trailer and dry clothes.
I was exhausted and must have slept most of the next day. I kept seeing that frog looking at me. I dabble a bit in Chinese inkbrush painting, and soon after that I drew a smirking frog sitting on a lily pad with the title, "The Enlightened Frog". It's hanging over my Buddhist altar. What does it all mean? I don't know. Maybe nothing. That's Zen for you. It means I never caught the frog. Maybe it caught me.
@seeker242 Lol, 'aint that the truth! Some people will say I think I had it for a moment... "it was like this", then 50% of others will say "that's not it", while another 50% say "that was it"! I don't think anyone can confirm or validate your experience. We'll have to decide for ourselves.
if it is something you gain, then it will disappear because it is conditional.
if it something you already have and you just realize that which you already have, then it is unconditional. meaning it always has been and always will be and nothing can take it away.
many attain satori, but it is conditional because they didn't dive fully into what is.
in a way it is like realizing that there is nothing to realize other than what is. nothing special, nothing unique. it's the most simple thing and simple isn't even the correct word for what one attains.
if one attains satori once, they never truly lose it. they might go unconscious again, but deep down they will always know. they might interpret it and put it on a pedestal, but that is the nature of the mind. that is why it is always good to have a teacher who can keep your shit together. lol.
Hi friends. I don't mean to spoil the fun, but anyone can check for themselves if the ten fetters are still there and see whether it was the real thing or another mind orgasm.
If this is what you mean, I think I've experienced it every now and then:
Satori From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Satori (悟り?) (Chinese: 悟; pinyin: wù; Korean 오) is a Japanese Buddhist term for enlightenment that literally means "understanding". In the Zen Buddhist tradition, satori refers to a flash of sudden awareness, or individual enlightenment, and is considered a "first step" or embarkation toward nirvana.
I think it's just encountering situations that make a person stop discursive thinking for a moment or two, like a beautiful spring morning, a pretty snowstorm, the stars on a very clear night, a sip of tea... little things that just make a person stop discursive thinking for a moment. Then we notice that discursive thinking has stopped, and take note of that- no big deal.
"When I heard the Learn'd Astronomer
When I heard the learn'd astronomer; When the proofs, the figures, were ranged in columns before me; When I was shown the charts and the diagrams, to add, divide, and measure them; When I, sitting, heard the astronomer, where he lectured with much applause in the lecture-room, How soon, unaccountable, I became tired and sick; Till rising and gliding out, I wander'd off by myself, In the mystical moist night-air, and from time to time, Look'd up in perfect silence at the stars."
May I ask, for those who have experienced it, what was it like? Can you describe it?
Well, the experience came and went and remains only in memories, and even those have become something like an old dream. You want the story?
Many years ago, I was frustrated with my lack of progress in Zen Meditation and none of the formal retreats had done anything but wear me out, so I decided to go on a week-long private retreat instead and get really, really, serious about this Zen meditation stuff. So I borrowed the use of a friend's trailer used during dear season as a hunting camp out in the hills of Southern Ohio, and off I went one summer to be by myself.
Surrounded by nothing but trees and with nothing to do but meditate, I made it three days before I was so bored I could scream. So I started taking "meditation walks" while trying to keep a clear mind. Mostly, I thought about the Zen monks and stories. Well, on the forth day I was walking along a stream when I saw a huge frog sitting in the water, looking at me. I decided that I just had to catch that frog. Don't ask me why, or what I would have done with it. I just had to get that frog in my hands.
Have you ever tried to catch a frog in its own element? I chased that frog up and down that stream for a long time, with it waiting until I just touched it before slipping away, with me getting wetter and more frustrated. Finally I found myself sitting in the water, panting, and that damned frog popped up in the water just out of reach again and looked me in the eyes.
And satori happened. First it was like I was the frog, looking at this silly human, then there was no difference between me and the frog or anything else. Looking back, that's all I can say about it. I don't know how long I sat in that water with the frog, but eventually I did get back to the trailer and dry clothes.
I was exhausted and must have slept most of the next day. I kept seeing that frog looking at me. I dabble a bit in Chinese inkbrush painting, and soon after that I drew a smirking frog sitting on a lily pad with the title, "The Enlightened Frog". It's hanging over my Buddhist altar. What does it all mean? I don't know. Maybe nothing. That's Zen for you. It means I never caught the frog. Maybe it caught me.
That is, I know that under weird circumstances the brain can do weird things. But there’s no label on such an “experience” which tells me what exactly it is. Weird experiences go away; but I think some of them change a person on the long run.
In my opinion we don’t get some extra “psychic” or “spiritual” applications in our brain; on the contrary. We lose illusions. We know less. We land on planet earth. We become less prominent. We fade away into the background.
May I ask, for those who have experienced it, what was it like? Can you describe it?
Well, the experience came and went and remains only in memories, and even those have become something like an old dream. You want the story?
Many years ago, I was frustrated with my lack of progress in Zen Meditation and none of the formal retreats had done anything but wear me out, so I decided to go on a week-long private retreat instead and get really, really, serious about this Zen meditation stuff. So I borrowed the use of a friend's trailer used during dear season as a hunting camp out in the hills of Southern Ohio, and off I went one summer to be by myself.
Surrounded by nothing but trees and with nothing to do but meditate, I made it three days before I was so bored I could scream. So I started taking "meditation walks" while trying to keep a clear mind. Mostly, I thought about the Zen monks and stories. Well, on the forth day I was walking along a stream when I saw a huge frog sitting in the water, looking at me. I decided that I just had to catch that frog. Don't ask me why, or what I would have done with it. I just had to get that frog in my hands.
Have you ever tried to catch a frog in its own element? I chased that frog up and down that stream for a long time, with it waiting until I just touched it before slipping away, with me getting wetter and more frustrated. Finally I found myself sitting in the water, panting, and that damned frog popped up in the water just out of reach again and looked me in the eyes.
And satori happened. First it was like I was the frog, looking at this silly human, then there was no difference between me and the frog or anything else. Looking back, that's all I can say about it. I don't know how long I sat in that water with the frog, but eventually I did get back to the trailer and dry clothes.
I was exhausted and must have slept most of the next day. I kept seeing that frog looking at me. I dabble a bit in Chinese inkbrush painting, and soon after that I drew a smirking frog sitting on a lily pad with the title, "The Enlightened Frog". It's hanging over my Buddhist altar. What does it all mean? I don't know. Maybe nothing. That's Zen for you. It means I never caught the frog. Maybe it caught me.
Wow! Love this story! Thank you for making me smile! What a great moment! Thanks for sharing x
I experienced it yesterday for the first time. The way I thought about things changed dramatically for a few hours. I woke up this morning and I didn't feel so calm or unstressed. I was back to my normal state and there was nothing I could do about it. Shame really. I felt so calm. I meditated during my satori and a constant feeling kept passing through my head. It was like the wind was blowing in my head, quietly and softly. I didn't have a care in the world because I held on to that feeling. When I woke up this morning, I couldn't find this feeling again. It was nowhere to be found, but I know one thing, it will probably happen again. I just need to stay focused and calm my mind (which is easier said than done).
Likely that was just a meditative experience @10jellis; meditation leads the mind to all kinds of experiences. Actual awakening experiences change the mind permanently (well you know what I mean), they're not experiences you have and then you go back to normal.
@Cloud,do you think if I found this feeling again and held on to it permanently I would become a better person? (I lost concentration in my dreams surprisingly. I was having lots of them last night about evil and peace but the evil distracted me so much I let go of the feeling and this was all during my sleep).
May I ask, for those who have experienced it, what was it like? Can you describe it?
Well, the experience came and went and remains only in memories, and even those have become something like an old dream. You want the story?
Many years ago, I was frustrated with my lack of progress in Zen Meditation and none of the formal retreats had done anything but wear me out, so I decided to go on a week-long private retreat instead and get really, really, serious about this Zen meditation stuff. So I borrowed the use of a friend's trailer used during dear season as a hunting camp out in the hills of Southern Ohio, and off I went one summer to be by myself.
Surrounded by nothing but trees and with nothing to do but meditate, I made it three days before I was so bored I could scream. So I started taking "meditation walks" while trying to keep a clear mind. Mostly, I thought about the Zen monks and stories. Well, on the forth day I was walking along a stream when I saw a huge frog sitting in the water, looking at me. I decided that I just had to catch that frog. Don't ask me why, or what I would have done with it. I just had to get that frog in my hands.
Have you ever tried to catch a frog in its own element? I chased that frog up and down that stream for a long time, with it waiting until I just touched it before slipping away, with me getting wetter and more frustrated. Finally I found myself sitting in the water, panting, and that damned frog popped up in the water just out of reach again and looked me in the eyes.
And satori happened. First it was like I was the frog, looking at this silly human, then there was no difference between me and the frog or anything else. Looking back, that's all I can say about it. I don't know how long I sat in that water with the frog, but eventually I did get back to the trailer and dry clothes.
I was exhausted and must have slept most of the next day. I kept seeing that frog looking at me. I dabble a bit in Chinese inkbrush painting, and soon after that I drew a smirking frog sitting on a lily pad with the title, "The Enlightened Frog". It's hanging over my Buddhist altar. What does it all mean? I don't know. Maybe nothing. That's Zen for you. It means I never caught the frog. Maybe it caught me.
@tayaki, good advice. I mustn't dwell on the imperfect things. Nothing is perfect and there will always be evil and I just have to let go of worrying about it.
@Cloud,do you think if I found this feeling again and held on to it permanently I would become a better person?
No, and actually that's a roadblock to progressing on the path. We all experience things in meditation that awe us, that we would like to experience again, but it just makes us grasp all the harder to try and get back to something we enjoyed. We have to let them go and move on, point our minds toward directly experiencing the nature of the mind and all phenomena, and learn. We're looking to acquire wisdom of our natures, not to grasp and form attachments to meditation experiences.
Let's not run the thread off-topic and turn it into a Q&A! I'd suggest http://www.buddhanet.net for all the information you should need; try the study guides.
@Cloud,do you think if I found this feeling again and held on to it permanently I would become a better person? (I lost concentration in my dreams surprisingly. I was having lots of them last night about evil and peace but the evil distracted me so much I let go of the feeling and this was all during my sleep).
Don't minimize what you experience, but also don't try to label it or give it some sort of grade on a scale. That's your analytical mind trying to catalog every experience into what you expect or desire. Above all, don't let it become your goal. Something happened. What was it? Don't know. If you ask different Buddhists, they will give you different answers depending on their own understanding.
Did it help or hinder your meditation and understanding? If help, then just continue what you're doing. Satori or kensho is the sensation of a door opening. In Zen, we balance this with making sure we focus on what we're doing, not what we're feeling. Do the dishes. Mow the lawn. Drive to work. Those activities are where the real Buddhist practice lies.
I HAVE experienced enlightenment..we all have. Here is the thing about enlightenment: Have you ever read a quote you completely agree with and thought, ''oh my god so so true''...well this is it (tiny tiny bit of enlightenment)
And the more of *them* feelings you get the more wiser and wiser you'll get until the day when you are actually living by the quotes or words you just heard..
Enlightenment is awakening. And thats what the feeling is when you find something true out..or when you hear a quote thats true..'you become awake' The aim is to be completely awake..(but this is very hard, altough very achieveable) With help from the buddhas teachings and ending desire, aswell as meditating to keep our minds clear, we will feel more and more of *them moments*
The most difficult thing in life is ''walking the path''
''There is a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path''
so when we have these satori moments, we need to remember that state and stay there. if you hear that one amazing quote, well live by it. walk the talk.
Buddha would have walked his talk, thats why he was enlightened...awake..
When i say its very achieveable, i mean that there are only certain topics in life that we deal with. People think there are millions but its becuase there living in the illusion. For example: when one loses a loved one, you might hear a quote about that which makes you feel better about it (enlightened) but then they might go and lose their job, (there will be a quote about that to) however what one wont understand is im not saying go and read a quote every single time something happens, what im saying is it only takes a couple quotes or words or thoughts to realize that they ALL relate....
we can use our own knowledge and wisdom for every scenario that life throws at us..
(im going deeper and deeper now, which some people will think im talking bu1l so ill just stop) lol..
But to your question, yes some of us have experienced satori and some of us *are* enlightened
Comments
Satori once, and that was enough. I was exhausted for days. Not for me. I'd rather open like a flower than fall off a cliff.
Thanks
Spiny
Be well.
This was a while ago though.
Are you a zen practictioner?
when you see grass and you see that it is green.
when you attain that you attain the world.
Many years ago, I was frustrated with my lack of progress in Zen Meditation and none of the formal retreats had done anything but wear me out, so I decided to go on a week-long private retreat instead and get really, really, serious about this Zen meditation stuff. So I borrowed the use of a friend's trailer used during dear season as a hunting camp out in the hills of Southern Ohio, and off I went one summer to be by myself.
Surrounded by nothing but trees and with nothing to do but meditate, I made it three days before I was so bored I could scream. So I started taking "meditation walks" while trying to keep a clear mind. Mostly, I thought about the Zen monks and stories. Well, on the forth day I was walking along a stream when I saw a huge frog sitting in the water, looking at me. I decided that I just had to catch that frog. Don't ask me why, or what I would have done with it. I just had to get that frog in my hands.
Have you ever tried to catch a frog in its own element? I chased that frog up and down that stream for a long time, with it waiting until I just touched it before slipping away, with me getting wetter and more frustrated. Finally I found myself sitting in the water, panting, and that damned frog popped up in the water just out of reach again and looked me in the eyes.
And satori happened. First it was like I was the frog, looking at this silly human, then there was no difference between me and the frog or anything else. Looking back, that's all I can say about it. I don't know how long I sat in that water with the frog, but eventually I did get back to the trailer and dry clothes.
I was exhausted and must have slept most of the next day. I kept seeing that frog looking at me. I dabble a bit in Chinese inkbrush painting, and soon after that I drew a smirking frog sitting on a lily pad with the title, "The Enlightened Frog". It's hanging over my Buddhist altar. What does it all mean? I don't know. Maybe nothing. That's Zen for you. It means I never caught the frog. Maybe it caught me.
if it something you already have and you just realize that which you already have, then it is unconditional.
meaning it always has been and always will be and nothing can take it away.
many attain satori, but it is conditional because they didn't dive fully into what is.
in a way it is like realizing that there is nothing to realize other than what is. nothing special, nothing unique.
it's the most simple thing and simple isn't even the correct word for what one attains.
have fun with this one. lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)#Sutta_Pitaka.27s_list_of_ten_fetters
Satori
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Satori (悟り?) (Chinese: 悟; pinyin: wù; Korean 오) is a Japanese Buddhist term for enlightenment that literally means "understanding". In the Zen Buddhist tradition, satori refers to a flash of sudden awareness, or individual enlightenment, and is considered a "first step" or embarkation toward nirvana.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satori
I think it's just encountering situations that make a person stop discursive thinking for a moment or two, like a beautiful spring morning, a pretty snowstorm, the stars on a very clear night, a sip of tea... little things that just make a person stop discursive thinking for a moment. Then we notice that discursive thinking has stopped, and take note of that- no big deal.
"When I heard the Learn'd Astronomer
When I heard the learn'd astronomer;
When the proofs, the figures, were ranged in columns before me;
When I was shown the charts and the diagrams, to add, divide, and
measure them;
When I, sitting, heard the astronomer, where he lectured with much
applause in the lecture-room,
How soon, unaccountable, I became tired and sick;
Till rising and gliding out, I wander'd off by myself,
In the mystical moist night-air, and from time to time,
Look'd up in perfect silence at the stars."
-- Walt Whitman
Something.
For me it was very peaceful and spacious, with a sense of timelessness.
Spiny
That is, I know that under weird circumstances the brain can do weird things.
But there’s no label on such an “experience” which tells me what exactly it is.
Weird experiences go away; but I think some of them change a person on the long run.
In my opinion we don’t get some extra “psychic” or “spiritual” applications in our brain; on the contrary.
We lose illusions. We know less. We land on planet earth.
We become less prominent. We fade away into the background.
if you grasp at a calm mind that is hell.
sounds like the best moment of your life!
Did it help or hinder your meditation and understanding? If help, then just continue what you're doing. Satori or kensho is the sensation of a door opening. In Zen, we balance this with making sure we focus on what we're doing, not what we're feeling. Do the dishes. Mow the lawn. Drive to work. Those activities are where the real Buddhist practice lies.
Here is the thing about enlightenment:
Have you ever read a quote you completely agree with and thought, ''oh my god so so true''...well this is it (tiny tiny bit of enlightenment)
And the more of *them* feelings you get the more wiser and wiser you'll get until the day when you are actually living by the quotes or words you just heard..
Enlightenment is awakening. And thats what the feeling is when you find something true out..or when you hear a quote thats true..'you become awake'
The aim is to be completely awake..(but this is very hard, altough very achieveable) With help from the buddhas teachings and ending desire, aswell as meditating to keep our minds clear, we will feel more and more of *them moments*
The most difficult thing in life is ''walking the path''
''There is a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path''
so when we have these satori moments, we need to remember that state and stay there. if you hear that one amazing quote, well live by it. walk the talk.
Buddha would have walked his talk, thats why he was enlightened...awake..
When i say its very achieveable, i mean that there are only certain topics in life that we deal with. People think there are millions but its becuase there living in the illusion. For example: when one loses a loved one, you might hear a quote about that which makes you feel better about it (enlightened)
but then they might go and lose their job, (there will be a quote about that to) however what one wont understand is im not saying go and read a quote every single time something happens, what im saying is it only takes a couple quotes or words or thoughts to realize that they ALL relate....
we can use our own knowledge and wisdom for every scenario that life throws at us..
(im going deeper and deeper now, which some people will think im talking bu1l so ill just stop) lol..
But to your question, yes some of us have experienced satori and some of us *are* enlightened
Best wishes!
Monk 2: sorry, I had beans for lunch.
With respect.
i like to read your posts, please continue
thanks