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Meditation: Eyes Wide Shut?
I've read recently that Buddhist meditation is done with the eyes open, and a sort of soft focus in front of you. However, in my previous experience with meditation--particularly guided meditations written up in books or on CDs, you're encouraged to close your eyes. So my habit in meditation is to work with the eyes closed, and I've noticed that it's very distracting for me to try and keep them open. Is there any particular advantage to keeping the eyes open, or reasons they should not be closed? Has anyone tried both ways? Is it more simply a matter of what you are used to or what you were taught? Also, has anyone tried eyes-open meditation whilst focusing on an object in front of you--such as a candle flame, a mandala, or a special religious or personal symbol? Any special experiences working this way?
Lots of questions, I know, but it should give us a bit to discuss!
Cheers!
Lots of questions, I know, but it should give us a bit to discuss!
Cheers! 0
Comments
Meditation - The Seat of Enlightenment
when i meditate i mostly focus on breathing, but by doing so i block out the world around me.
sometimes i try to focus on things around me - the sound of rain is good for me - but there are so many noises around that i end up trying to focus on all of them and thus divide my attention.
then other times i try to focus on ny breathing and bodily sensations and the environment - and that's just plain silly, my brain doesn't like it.
Zenmonk, when you say meditation is 'being fully present with things as they are', do you mean bodily sensations, the environment, or both, or even one at a time...
appreciate any help, i get easily confused with stuff like this - apparently i think too much
The Pools
The Experience of Sitting
I try to focus on what the nose is doing - and that's hard enough sometimes.
-bf
Note please, that I do say, 'initially'....
Some people respond very well to mental imagery and visualisation, whereas others take to a sound, like a Mantra, or music, as an accompaniment or aid....
perhaps you are more tactile, and therefore concentration on how the breath feels against the skin, and concentration on the subtle sensation of clothing against the skin, how the floor feels beneath your body, is a preferable method...
After a while, when you find you are comfortable with your chosen method, and you feel you have advanced in your progress, you can try more conventional methods and the ways described by others here....
personally, I find music helps, or Reciting a Mantra....
Even though I am quite artistic and visually oriented, sound works best for me...
so don't go for the method you presume would work best for you....
experiment.....
I have done both ways. I initially learned meditation through an online course and that teacher asked you to keep your eyes closed. I did so and got attached to it. Then last year I finally was able to go to an in person meditation class. This teacher suggested that we keep our eyes slightly open and lightly focused.
Now, I have a lazy eye. So basically, I'm only seeing out of one eye most of the meditation. It took a while to get used to. But now I can do it both ways. It does take a little trial and error to find out what works. But it is well worth it.
My technique is to relax overall, and just let the eyes do as they please without forcing it. Eventually they settle in to a state where I observe them as if disconnected from them. They are vary from the lids almost closed to half-open and focused in the distance as if looking at a far away object.
At this point I am not conciously controlling my eyes, and just kind of "watch" them.
...
As my teacher says, if you keep your eyes closed while meditating, you'll be disappointed when you open them. To me that means you'll essentially be dreaming if you have your eyes closed and not connecting the dots that reality is just as illusory as a dream. But what do I know?
Palzang
My meditation practise has varied. I used to both as a lay Buddhist and a monk, sit in front of a Buddha statute and repeat "pali prayers".
Though now I sorta try and meditate in what I am doing moment to moment, like when I'm out wipper-snippering the garden and paddocks. I do this so I don't actually kill any creatures....frogs, snakes, and the blasted flies!!!!!!! Though I have realised that I am actually killing all the small insects I can't see....!@#$%...I do appologise to them, really!!!!
So rather than trying to "tune out", I'm actually trying to "tune in"??????
Don't really know if you could call this meditation, I just thought I would do it this way. My parents tend to freak out when they catch me in front of my temple.....
You mean the "but what do I know?" part? :smilec:
Palzang
Yep, should have included these. I know some traditions and meditation masters have talked about "walking" meditations. I guess in a sense I was just trying to compare what I do to sorta this??????
When people (around here) ask me about meditation they always have the idea that its something only "masters" do, you have to be asian, and it has to be done with a mantra, ie Hum mani padme om. I try to let them know this is not the case, that its for anyone and it has to do with clearing the mind, letting go of the "mental" clutter. ie "monkey mind".
Once again thanks for reminding me!!!
I admit, I believe I am cheating. I read about breathing meditations and think I will never gain the full Buddhist benefit of meditation if I continue with my own little 2-step formula. Maybe I am being naive, but it certainly feels that way.
Very good point. As Esau alluded to too, meditation isn't just for those who are masters, or who are naturally able to sit completely still and don't have racing minds. If it were, nobody would be able to do it, including the masters. We all start out with racing minds, with discomforts of one sort or another and with the task of learning to deal with the resistance of mind and body to sitting still and being silent. This silence and stillness though come through letting thoughts come up and letting them go, not dwelling on them and not pushing them away. One is present with things as they are. One opens to things as they are, including our monkey minds and including our bodies, that in the beginning want to constantly move and fidget. Then there is the emptiness that isn't emptiness. Or as Peter Matthiessen puts it so well,
"One opens to this emptiness, to the great stillness of our true nature, which is also the foundation of the universe. Then pure tears fall in utter relief at finding the way home."
- Peter Matthiessen - Nine Headed Dragon River - Zen Journals 1969-1982
O.K. This has got to be the most beautiful and comforting thing I've ever read.
I've been avoiding meditation because I don't have a teacher. All I've been doing is sitting quietly and thinking about all beings and developing lovingkindness for them and me. I do this a lot when I'm watching T.V. as well. And when I'm making tea throughout the day I concentrate on the pouring and placing the tea pot down on the counter gently and I'm thinking about how the pot meets the counter and the colours of the tea and the consistency and colour of the honey etc. etc. I'm just doing that in order to fully enjoy the experience. Does that have anything to do with meditation? It's mindful. Does that count? I do the same with all the other daily tasks. Why is it so hard for me to understand the nature of meditation? And why am I so resistent to sitting meditation? Is it just plain old fear? Not having a formal teacher? If troubling thoughts come up do I embrace them and then let them go? Or is embracing too much? Can I really do this on my own without formal training? I'll read the links on meditation that I've taken from here. Shall I just go ahead? Could I ASK more questions? (Chandler tone form "Friends")
I've been grappling with the concept of emptiness for a while now. Usually I feel like I just can't grasp it (NO pun intended) and then I leave it for another day. O.K. So, our true nature is empty and still, like the nature of the universe. I can barely grasp this on an intellectual level. But I do understand that it's meditation that helps us understand this on the experiential level. I was just about to ask (again) the question "Shall I just go ahead?" and I heard all of you in my head shout "YES" in unison. LOL. I'm really resisting sitting practice. I don't know if I'm resisting for a good reason or not.
Does anyone have any (easy to understand) thoughts on this? I'm ambivalent. Can you tell? LOL.
Let us, for example, say that this is what you're thinking...(If I understand you correctly...)
"I should practise sitting meditation, but...."
The word 'should' is the problem here. 'Should' implies self-castigation, or blame... it heaps guilt onto your shoulders and makes you subconsciously feel bad about not doing whatever-it-is-you're-not-doing....and rarely can you come up with the bit after 'but.....'
So:
Change the "should" into a "could"....
"I 'COULD' practise sitting meditation, but......"
You'll find it much easier to see the reason in clear light. And then work on that....
Don't be so hard on yourself.
I have been a Buddhist (labels, descriptions attachments - I know.... whole new discussion, but for arguments' sake...!!) for around five years now. I have only recently started devoting a proper, allotted time to meditation. But I'm not beating up on myself about it!
The word 'should' is the problem here. 'Should' implies self-castigation, or blame... it heaps guilt onto your shoulders and makes you subconsciously feel bad about not doing whatever-it-is-you're-not-doing....and rarely can you come up with the bit after 'but.....'
"It sounds, to me, as if you're wrestling with yourself... as if you are divided, "for" and "against"...
Fede,
That's exactly how I feel.
"Could" is a MUCH better word. I felt relief just reading it.
O.K. I'll take your wise counsel and go from here.
You've helped me immensely.
Thank you, Fede!
Love,
Brigid
Federica is right about that should, 'should' is an inner tryrant. As to your questions - there is no end to these questions. Let them settle. What you can do is sit still in whatever position your body can manage, become aware of your breathing, if thoughts come, let them come, but don't 'think', if they go, let them go, but don't try not to think. If sounds come, hear them, if sensations come, feel them, then let your awareness be with your breath again, sit as still as you can without being rigid. If you sit, sit. If you don't sit, don't sit. That's all. Since you liked the excerpt from Peter Matthiessen, here is something that might also strike a spark for you:
"Soon the child's clear eye is clouded over by ideas and opinions, preconceptions and abstractions. Simple free being becomes encrusted witht he burdensome armor of the ego. Not until years later does an instinct come that a vital sense of mystery has been withdrawn. The sun glints through the pines, and the heart is peirced in a moment of beauty and strange pain, like a memory of paradise.
After that day, at the bottom of each breath, there is a hollow place that is filled with longing. We become seekers without knowing that we seek, and at first, we long for something "greater" than ourselves, something far apart and far away. It is not a return to childhood, for childhood is not a truly enlightened state. Yet to seek one's own true nature is, as one Zen master has said, "a way to lead you to your long lost home."
To practice Zen means to realize one's existence moment after moment, rather than letting life unravel in regret of the past and daydreaming of the future. To "rest in the present" is a state of magical simplicity, although attainment of this state is not as simple as it sounds. At the very least, sitting Zen practice, called Zazen, will bring about a strong sense of wellbeing, as the clutter of ideas and emotions falls away and body and mind return to natural harmony with all creation. Out of this emptiness can come a true insight into the nature of existence, which is no different from one's Buddha Nature."
- Peter Matthiessen, Nine Headed Dragon River
And:
“When you sit, don’t expect to be noble. When we sit with what is, even for a few minutes, then this presence that we are is like a mirror. We see everything. We see what we are: our efforts to look good, to be first, or to be last. We see our anger, our anxiety, our pomposity, our so-called spirituality. Real spirituality is just being with all that. If we can really be with who we are, Transformation occurs.”
- Charlotte Joko Beck
A disciple was getting ready to help his Master get ready to deliver a lecture. His friend asked, “What is it about what the Master says that makes you go to so many of his talks?” The disciple responded, “I don't go to hear the Master talk. I go to watch him tie his shoes.
- Ram Dass, 'Journey of Awakening : A Meditator's Guidebook'
Huangbo, instructing the community said, “All of you people are gobblers of dregs. If you go on traveling around this way where will you have today? Do you know that there are no teachers of Chan in all of China?”At that time a monastic came forward and said, “Then what about those in various places who order followers and lead communities?”Huangbo said, “I do not say that there is no Chan, it’s just that there are no teachers.”
His cold, severe solitary mien does not take pride in itself.
Solemnly dwelling in the sea of the world, he distinguishes dragons and snakes.
Dazhong (Ta -chung) the Son of Heaven has been lightly handled.
Three times he personally felt those claws and fangs at work.
So, are you a dragon or a snake?
The zazen I speak of is not learning meditation... It is the manifestation of ultimate reality... Once its heart is grasped, you are like the dragon when he gains the water, like the tiger when he enters the mountain. Forms and substance are like the dew on the grass, destiny like the dart of lightning - emptied in an instant, vanished in a flash.
Why leave behind the seat that exists in your own home and go aimlessly off to the dusty realms of other lands?... Do not be suspicious of the true dragon. Devote your energies to a way that directly indicates the absolute and gain accord with the enlightenment of the Buddhas.
- A Universal Recommendation for Zazen - Ehei Dogen, as quoted in Nine Headed Dragon River.
"Federica is right about that should, 'should' is an inner tryrant manipulating you. As to your questions - there is no end to these questions. Let them settle. What you can do is sit still in whatever position your body can manage, become aware of your breathing, if thoughts come, let them come, but don't 'think', if they go, let them go, but don't try not to think. If sounds come, hear them, if sensations come, feel them, then let your awareness be with your breath again, sit as still as you can without being rigid. If you sit, sit. If you don't sit, don't sit. That's all."
This clarifies everything. I understand this and it's inspiring me to sit.
The Peter Mathiessen excerpt is extremely clear and he's put it in a way that I can understand and actually use. I'm simply putting too much pressure and suspicion on myself and over thinking the whole thing. And questioning my innate ability to find my way back home. Putting up my own barriers. An ingrained habit. A neurotic habit. I see that now.
"After that day, at the bottom of each breath, there is a hollow place that is filled with longing. We become seekers without knowing that we seek, and at first, we long for something "greater" than ourselves, something far apart and far away. It is not a return to childhood, for childhood is not a truly enlightened state. Yet to seek one's own true nature is, as one Zen master has said, "a way to lead you to your long lost home."
This passage really resonates. It makes me feel like I've always known this, but it was stuck in the back of my mind, behind all the clutter. It's a moment of pure understanding and awareness and it got through and brought it to the front of my mind where I can put it into practice. I imagine that when I start to sit on a regular basis the experiential understanding will solidify and transform from the intellectual understanding. Is this what we are trying to engrave upon our mindstream? So that it carries over to our next birth? It's about clear, mindful thought in a state of awareness and acceptance in order to acknowledge and then let go of the clutter so that we can allow true nature to take over and bring us back home to our original state of emptiness, to our Original Face. Is that how it is?
I'm starting to realize that having a specific teacher is not necessary at this stage. I think maybe you are my teachers at this time. I don't think I could have come up with this clear understanding if you hadn't put it so simply. I'm feeling confidence in my ability to practice this alone. It's both simple and complex at the same time. I just need to let go, allow my muscles and mind to relax, and jump.
The Verse
"His cold, severe solitary mien does not take pride in itself.
Solemnly dwelling in the sea of the world, he distinguishes dragons and snakes.
Dazhong (Ta -chung) the Son of Heaven has been lightly handled.
Three times he personally felt those claws and fangs at work."
"So, are you a dragon or a snake?"
I don't know. I think maybe I'm the dragon gaining the water and losing my suspicion of my true nature, after reading your posts.
O.K. I'm ready.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I'll keep you updated on my progress and my lack of progress, too. In case I get stuck. I think I have enough resources now to help me through. I'll get started.
P.S. This is more than I could have hoped for.
In gratitude,
Brigid.
I can't sit properly due to a back problem - I have to sit in a chair, stand, walk or lie down.
Enormous and humble thanks to all for this lesson.
Meditations: Forty Dhamma Talks
Jason
As one who also has physical problems, sitting in a chair works wonderfully. Just make sure to sit up straight so that the diaphragm muscle can move freely. That way you are able to take a breath unrestricted.
I don't know if this is a problem or not, but one thing that I really struggled with is "I will meditate for such and such a time today". Then I would struggle to sit for half of that time and get discouraged. There are differing opinions on what works best. Some say 20 minutes twice a day, some say in the morning. Find out what works for you. I have a personal goal for my practice and if I make it fine. The bigger point is it quality. If all you can do is 10 minutes of quality meditation, it is better than 45 of the monkey mind going wild. Yes, I've had those times too. I've even learned to look at those as positive experiences as I am trying.
Just keep trying and let us know how it comes. I personally love to meditate and love to hear others experiences. So if you want to share, I want to hear!
Sticking to a regular schedule of meditation has been difficult for me too, but one thing I've noticed has helped a bit: when I am sitting regularly, I have a much easier time stopping myself in an emotionally heated moment and just re-centering. When I haven't meditated in a few days, I am much more likely to forget to do this, or to say things I regret before I remember to do so. The habit of calming myself and thinking things through definitely comes hand in hand with my sitting practice! Actually, that's why I like to think of it as practice--practicing being calm for the times when it's not as easy to be calm!
This might be a much more pragmatic view than some will take as to the reasons for meditation, but for me, if I cannot be calm and sticking to the precepts in my day-to-day life, I cannot count on any spirituality that is only present when I'm engaged in a religious service. So the practical side is vitally important!
Zenmonk,
i came across a psychological theory for attention in which we give a percentage of our attention to different stimuli, so if we focus on one thing it gets 100% but if we divide it we can split it to 50-50 or whatever we want. Is this sorta what you mean, some attention on breathing but enough in reserve to be aware of my surroundings?
Thanks for the links
Do what works for you. If your practice doesn't benefit you, it isn't worth much. As ZM said, being pragmatic is a good thing. I saw on Zen Mountain Monastery site something that might be of help. They point out their is nothing esoteric about how you sit. It's what you do with your mind that counts. If you can do that better in a chair, please feel free to use it. After practicing for 6 months, I'm trying one of the simpler positions (burmese). Don't be surprised if later on you try something else, but do it in your own time. If you never do anything but sitting in a chair, fantastic. It beats no meditating at all.
As for scheduling, that seems to be a problem for all of us. I work part time nights. That means 2 nights a week my schedule is thrown off. Try different times and see what works for you. Nothing says you have to do it in the morning first thing.
So pull up a chair and sit for a while.
I'm not tired like I am when I wake up or, possibly, before I go to bed. It gives me some time to get my mind unfrazzled from work and prepares me for interacting with those at home that I enjoy being with.
This just happens to work for me.
-bf
Another practice is called the "metta bhavana" where you send lovingkindness to yourself, a friend, an enemy, someone you don't know and then all 4 as a group and then you keep expanding it from there. I haven't done it in a while, but will probably begin to include it in my practice soon. It left me with "a peaceful, easy feeling" (thanks to the Eagles for that one). There were people I honestly hated when I did it that I ended up friends with. Interesting, eh?
I'll do some net surfing and see what I can find for ya. Maybe Fede will tell me how to put in links on posts, too.
One site that is a wonderful reference is www.buddhanet.net, tons of free information there. And it is from all schools from what I could tell. So if you're into Theravada, Mahayana, or Vajrayana, you can find something to your taste.
:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: Oh blessings on you in bright showers of gold Jerry - like I would know what I'm into or not??????? I'm a baby in this lark, sweetie - it's like asking a two year old if he prefers calvados or cognac!!!
I have found that there is much to be learned from our "style of attention". When I was first introduced to the idea, I was astonished to discover that other people pay attention in different ways. Helen Palmer has done some very interesting work on this subject.
Just one of those little things you can do that I really like.
--Pandy
I need some advice here. As some know, I have chronic pain issues and sometimes cannot sit to meditate for very long. As one who really gets into it (I normally sit 30 minutes a day), is there any practices one knows that can be done lying down. Our Rev. Genryu has suggested meditating lying down and the way things are looking, I may have to start doing it that way on some days. I was unable to meditate 3 days this week or do any of the practices I normally do. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
My point is that whilst it is important to adhere to convention and follow tradition, teachings and guidelines, 'ain't nobody gonna whup you if you cain't' - !!
Adopt a position which will keep you as pain-free as possible, but retain your composure and concentration. meditate in the way which will be most fruitful to your practise.
I apologise again if i come across as being flippant or as if I am trivialising the condition.
You know i would not do that Mindlessly....
I was just thinking....
I bought my son one of these funky chairs that he sits in while playing his video games. Maybe you could try one of these. You wouldn't be lying down (so you wouldn't fall asleep) but you also wouldn't be rigidly upright and still have some back support.
Maybe you could also cut down on the amount of time you spend during one meditation session.
-bf
Thank you for your input. I am trying to do as much as I can. Trying to find alternatives at this point as my practice is important to me. I may start doing 20 minutes twice a day instead of 30 minutes at a time as BF has suggested.
BF,
I've seen those chairs. The question is "How do I get off the floor by myself?" LOL! I have been sitting Burmese up to this point. I am going to buy a regular folding chair to mediate on. Though I love my zafu and zabuton, they may not be the best choice for me.
I'd hate for you to be caught looking like a turtle stuck on it's back...
-bf