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Do you think Buddhism is taught enough in schools?

edited May 2011 in Faith & Religion
My friends son, in his entire school years got two lessons on Buddhism and I heard he was lucky to get that, but I also heard that some other schools teach it a lot more. Do you think, in the majority of schools, it is taught enough?
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Comments

  • CloudCloud Veteran
    I don't think they're supposed to teach religion in school at all, are they?
  • edited May 2011
    @cloud.

    Religious education (R.E).

    (Not teaching religion but about religion).
  • personaly i only ever had a christian r.e. at my school. then in high school i took ancient history and it wasn't until then that i learnt about buddhism and many others from a historical perspective, not as actual religious study.
    learning about religion in school deffinately could be a bit less one sided in my experience, but i think given everything they shouldn't teach any religion at school.
  • I think it's important for young people to learn about cultures and look at all beliefs in the same way.
  • My friends son, in his entire school years got two lessons on Buddhism and I heard he was lucky to get that, but I also heard that some other schools teach it a lot more. Do you think, in the majority of schools, it is taught enough?
    Hi 10jellis,

    You haven't said which country you're talking about. I think it might vary according to the country and education system within it.

    Kind wishes,

    D.

  • edited May 2011
    O, England. Sorry. :p

    (But I also think its important for all countries).
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    I also believe religion should not be taught in schools. It does not prepare you for labor.
  • But seeing as they are teaching it, do you think that they should put in a fair amount of all beliefs?
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited May 2011
    Here in the U.S., I get the sense that religion in school is a very sensitive subject ... mostly because parents and other citizens can be quite hard-hearted about the religion or lack of religion they may espouse. Studying a religion can be seen as de facto proselytizing instead of just another aspect of learning and culture.

    I went to a high school that had a religious-education class. Mostly, because of the country I live in, it was Christian-oriented. But it was just another class, like biology or English. There was a woman who lectured us one day on Buddhism ... and I really couldn't keep up with what she was saying. But overall, I count myself fortunate to have been exposed to something that touches/touched the society I live in. I take it as part of a decent education.

    But my kids have been taught little or nothing about religion. They are aware of churches and temples and have friends who are Christian and Jewish. And then there is this old man with his incense and a small meditation hall in the backyard. I don't push it and the schools don't push it so ... learn now or learn later or remain ignorant ... it's the best I can figure.

  • I have always had a struggle with this. I am used to hearing "no religion in schools", even from my own parents/community. But we had to attend bi-daily seminary classes at the actual school for my religion growing up. I had to sacrifice time to try and get a "grade" and "graduate" with my religion class. I find it problematic to basically know that most of the students will attend a seminary for one religion while ignoring the others simply because the seminary building is separate from the school. It's hypocritical to me that only one religion got taught and not others. I'm glad that at university I now get the opportunity to take a religion course that is not just one view. I do think that it wouldn't hurt to help teens in high school understand different religions.
  • Here in England, everyone is cool with religious education. There is no "no religion in schools" idea. I got taught religion a lot (two lessons a week) and it's part of the national curriculum. I don't understand why that in some (most) places it's not accepted.

    Tell me about your country and if they accept religious education in schools.

    Personally, I think it's very important to learn about other cultures and their way of thinking.

    Very interesting.
  • edited May 2011
    Tell me about your country and if they accept religious education in schools.
    Here in Germany, the church has had a deal with the government to stay out of state afairs, and in return to have religious education in schools. We had to choose between Protestant, Catholic and Ethics class.

    :)
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Here in the States, religious education in public schools (not talking about college level) is rare. I think our mindset is that to be pluralistic means that religion ought to pretty much stay out of public schools. As a former school principal, one of the thorniest issues we would come upon was when some teacher would start talking about religion -- because they would be talking about THEIR beliefs. We had to fire one teacher. Of course, in world history classes, there will be some discussion of major religions that influenced history.

    Then you have religious schools, but they pretty much teach only their religion.
  • edited May 2011
    Tell me about your country and if they accept religious education in schools.
    Here in Germany, the church has had a deal with the government to stay out of state afairs, and in return to have religious education in schools. We had to choose between Protestant, Catholic and Ethics class.

    :)
    A bit one sided in your country to Christianity then.
  • In the spirit of teaching *about* religion: religious literature could be treated academically at the high school level along with any other literature. But then again, if you believe that certain books should be banned like "Catcher in the Rye," maybe not. Or you can choose to let students think for themselves.
  • edited May 2011
    Here in the States, religious education in public schools (not talking about college level) is rare. I think our mindset is that to be pluralistic means that religion ought to pretty much stay out of public schools. As a former school principal, one of the thorniest issues we would come upon was when some teacher would start talking about religion -- because they would be talking about THEIR beliefs. We had to fire one teacher. Of course, in world history classes, there will be some discussion of major religions that influenced history.

    Then you have religious schools, but they pretty much teach only their religion.
    I don't think religion should stay out of anything. If you understand culture you understand people. I think that is why religious education is so important to us.

    I don't think that teacher should have been fired for talking about his beliefs. Over here teachers talk about their beliefs all the time.

    Just because children learn about different religions doesn't mean that they will become that religion, it just means that religion and even in the very rare circumstance that this does happen, it's not a bad thing but a good thing that the child is finding themselves and the personality within them.

    We had visits from the vicar and people from the local mosque and even a Jew but this is not a bad thing. It seems that religion is most countries is frowned upon, which I totally disagree with, even speaking as an atheist (if you don't count Buddhism as a religion).

    Looking into peoples belief means looking into people as a whole and understanding them. In England, their is no religious racism, say if a school boy said,
    "Oh he's a seek, I won't be his friend.",
    then many of his class mates would frown upon him. If you look also at American television, say, South Park, you see a lot of racism focused at children well religious education is one of the main steps forward to eliminate this racism.

    I'm sure you wouldn't like it if racism was focused at Buddhism, so why let this unnecessary racism happen in your country? I may sound like a hippie here but why sit quiet? Why let this go on? If you want your country to be a kinder, more friendly and acceptant country then agree with religious education to be taught in school.

    Sorry for babbling on there but I thought it was necessary.

    Just think.

    Thank you.
  • :thumbsup:
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran


    I'm sure you wouldn't like it if racism was focused at Buddhism, so why let this unnecessary racism happen in your country? I may sound like a hippie here but why sit quiet? Why let this go on? If you want your country to be a kinder, more friendly and acceptant country then agree with religious education to be taught in school.

    I think it would be great if public schools had comparative religion courses.

    But, here in the States the public decides on the curriculum through elections and local boards of education. Apparently the population has decided to stay out of teaching religion in public schools. Or don't you believe in democracy? That's the dilemma.

    And there isn't "racism" against Buddhism...no religion is taught in most public schools.


  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Just think.
    ____________________

    @10jellis -- A wonderful ideal and I agree with it, but the fact is that there are so many different kinds of investment that different people bring to their thoughts. My father (whose father was a Presbyterian minister ... meaning my father grew up abominating religion even as he learned a great deal about it) once tried to teach a college level course in the Bible as literature. Students were willing to sit still when he taught his more usual fare (Shakespeare), but seemed unable or unwilling to approach the Bible as something that might be studied as literature. The class collapsed of its own weight... or perhaps because my father was unwilling to allow the passion of belief to cloud the scene.

    To ask people to think is to ask them to question the answers they arrive at. And since answers are supposed to answer (i.e. put a period on some sentence), the process of thinking becomes unending and exhausts the thinker. So then there is an inevitable stopping point -- a point beyond which the thinker is unwilling to proceed. Whether sooner or later, even thinkers seem to run out of steam, pick a conclusion ... and then go out for a beer.
  • A friend of mine who was a school principal said you're not allowed to teach religion in US public schools, but there's a loophole; if you embed it in lessons about different cultures, you can get away with it. That's how public schools in Native American communities get away with teaching their spiritual traditions in school; they call it "culture". Vinlyn, you've been a school principal, what's your perspective?
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    A friend of mine who was a school principal said you're not allowed to teach religion in US public schools, but there's a loophole; if you embed it in lessons about different cultures, you can get away with it. That's how public schools in Native American communities get away with teaching their spiritual traditions in school; they call it "culture". Vinlyn, you've been a school principal, what's your perspective?
    Pretty much true.

    Remember, there is no national curriculum. It's a state by state thing, with details being left to local communities (might be a county school system or a city or town school system...depends on the state). I would guess that the Indian reservations control their own curriculum.

    You know, I think the question some people haven't thought of is -- what religions do you teach, which ones do you leave out?

  • edited May 2011
    A friend of mine who was a school principal said you're not allowed to teach religion in US public schools, but there's a loophole; if you embed it in lessons about different cultures, you can get away with it. That's how public schools in Native American communities get away with teaching their spiritual traditions in school; they call it "culture". Vinlyn, you've been a school principal, what's your perspective?
    Pretty much true. Remember, there is no national curriculum.
    Right, but separation of church and state is federal law, so that (in theory) should limit what states can do in terms of teaching religion, shouldn't it? There was a Supreme Court decision a long time ago, I think, that said that if schools want to teach religion (referring to Christianity, bible studies), they have to do so as a special-interest club,meeting before or after school. (Or were the schools eventually not allowed to even host such clubs on their grounds?) But I'm not sure how some of the schools in fundamentalist communities manage to get Intelligent Design into the curriculum. I've heard that some are able to substitute that for science, which sounds outrageous.

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Separation of church and state strikes me as a fair piece of guidance, given the documented corruptions of the past. The only problem I have ever seen in it is that church (in its broadest "religion" sense) and state are not separate in individuals or in many of the activities those individuals engage in. As a result, if individuals are unwilling to rein in their own sense of church, the state is left with little or no recourse other than to create a corral entitled separation-of-church-and-state.

    Just chewing my cud here.

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Right, but separation of church and state is federal law, so that (in theory) should limit what states can do in terms of teaching religion, shouldn't it? There was a Supreme Court decision a long time ago, I think, that said that if schools want to teach religion (referring to Christianity, bible studies), they have to do so as a special-interest club,meeting before or after school. (Or were the schools eventually not allowed to even host such clubs on their grounds?) But I'm not sure how some of the schools in fundamentalist communities manage to get Intelligent Design into the curriculum. I've heard that some are able to substitute that for science, which sounds outrageous.



    We were required to allow a "club" called "The Fellowship Of Christian Athletes". Which was goofy, since no one in the Christian club were athletes. And, we were required to provide a "sponsor", meaning an adult staff presence, but the club had to be organized by the students. Christian parents could be present, but again, not organize the club or its activities.

    We also had a small group of students who would gather round the flag pole once a week for a morning prayer. Again, it was required to be organized by the students with a staff member present to merely supervise.

    Virginia, almost surprisingly, wasn't a Bible Belt state in regard to the curriculum. My understanding is that the way intelligent design fits into the curriculum of some states is that is taught in biology (for example) as one equal explanation of evolution. I could be wrong on that.

  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    edited May 2011
    In 8th grade, we learned a lot of Buddhism. We were taught about the 5 main religions: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism (I think we learned the least about Islam, to be honest). Also, this was not an elective: it was part of the required World History class. I still remember having to draw Shiva for homework. Hehe. Anyways... at least in my school, we learned quite a bit about Buddhism (at least enough for my fellow peers to know the basic tenets of Buddhism). I'm pretty sure this set me on the way to find the Middle Way. :p Currently, we also have 2 Christian clubs, but thats about it. Anyone could start any religious based club if they wanted.

    In the school that I will be attending next year, they have a Religious Studies class which teaches about the 5 main religions.
  • ArjquadArjquad Veteran
    edited May 2011
    If you are in the US teaching any religion is very illegal
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    If you are in the US teaching any religion is very illegal
    Teaching isn't illegal. Preaching is. Get your facts straight, foo.
  • If you are in the US teaching any religion is very illegal
    What we're discussing is that it depends on how it's taught. Like in MG's World History class. The focus is on studying historical religions, possibly to provide some background to world events. That's an ok use of instruction about religion. Another might be as a component in cultural studies or social studies. It wouldn't be allowed if there were one required religion class and the sole focus were Christianity.

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    If you are in the US teaching any religion is very illegal
    You're misstating reality.

    MindGate is much closer to what the real situation is. The difficult issue is getting either the State Board of Education, or the local Board to approve a curriculum that includes comparative religion.

  • ArjquadArjquad Veteran
    Sorry, it's late here and I have had s very long day. I totally misread the context of the whole thing.
  • edited May 2011
    I think that definitely little children from the very beginning should be taught meditation. Not only would it promote sentiments of well being, generosity, and open heartedness between all of our youths which is something that we certainly need as much of as we can get at the moment, but they would learn how to develop minds that are inwardly peaceful so that they could do better in school, and even the kids who have troubled families could learn these teachings and give them to their parents to quell troubled relationships in the home.
    With that said, I think that the school system if they were to integrate such a practice into the curriculum of the children, would have to be very careful. There are so many teachers out there, and practitioners, who are so readily capable of passing on heavy, dogmatic teachings that children would just have absolutely no idea what to do with them, and in fact could actually be spiritually damaging. If children were to be taught meditation, they would have to be taught one thing, and that would be the four noble truths, because despite the fact that they really are so profound and difficult to learn to see for children and adults alike, they really are such a simple and straight forward lesson that can be applied and understood by every human alike.
    It would really come down to who was teaching them. The authorities would have to be very selective in deciding which human being has the potential to inspire and uplift these kids with the true teachings of Buddha.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I think that definitely little children from the very beginning should be taught meditation. Not only would it promote sentiments of well being, generosity, and open heartedness between all of our youths which is something that we certainly need as much of as we can get at the moment, but they would learn how to develop minds that are inwardly peaceful so that they could do better in school, and even the kids who have troubled families could learn these teachings and give them to their parents to quell troubled relationships in the home.
    With that said, I think that the school system if they were to integrate such a practice into the curriculum of the children, would have to be very careful. There are so many teachers out there, and practitioners, who are so readily capable of passing on heavy, dogmatic teachings that children would just have absolutely no idea what to do with them, and in fact could actually be spiritually damaging. If children were to be taught meditation, they would have to be taught one thing, and that would be the four noble truths, because despite the fact that they really are so profound and difficult to learn to see for children and adults alike, they really are such a simple and straight forward lesson that can be applied and understood by every human alike.
    It would really come down to who was teaching them. The authorities would have to be very selective in deciding which human being has the potential to inspire and uplift these kids with the true teachings of Buddha.
    Not appropriate in the public school setting. Unless, of course, you're also willing to have the children have lessons in...well, let's say Jehovah Witnesses.

  • I think you're wrong. How can you say that the four noble truths and meditation are not appropriate in a public school setting? When a human being learns to see and understand the four noble truths as they occur in the present moment, and cultivate that understanding through meditation, child and adult alike, only beneficial fruits ripen, both internally and externally. It seems that the only thing that is inappropriate is man kind's ignorance, and resistance to the Dhamma.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I think you're wrong. How can you say that the four noble truths and meditation are not appropriate in a public school setting? When a human being learns to see and understand the four noble truths as they occur in the present moment, and cultivate that understanding through meditation, child and adult alike, only beneficial fruits ripen, both internally and externally. It seems that the only thing that is inappropriate is man kind's ignorance, and resistance to the Dhamma.
    At least in America, you cannot favor one religion over another.

  • in England, we do not just focus on Christianity in schools but all religions to an equal extent. So in America, religious education was very Christian?
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    the whole culture screams christian.
  • Surely people would have voted for religious education to be more equal, not just voting to ban it?
  • The Four Noble Truths have nothing to do with meditation, i.e. "the relaxation response". The latter could be taught in school as part of a health program. There's nothing necessarily religious about it. Let's not complicate the picture by mixing apples with oranges. Buddhism instruction doesn't need to accompany exercise in meditation. I recently came across an article somewhere that featured a school program where grade-school kids were practicing meditation. It does happen. It's not a bad idea.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    the whole culture screams christian.
    Not unusual. In Thailand the whole culture screams Buddhist! It is beginning to change a little, but until very recently if you went to an art gallery in Thailand, almost all the art was directly related to Buddhism. Television "filler" programs were almost always about Buddhism. Almost every house still has a Buddhist shrine of some sort, although they are a mix with animism. Every government event had Buddhist monks to bless the event.

  • Surely people would have voted for religious education to be more equal, not just voting to ban it?
    Jellis, I take it you're not in the US. The whole issue of religious education, or specifically, teaching Christianity in public schools, became very polarized, so that there was no middle ground like what you suggest. Yours is the logical position, but religion can be a very emotional issue. Logic flies out the window. MindGate is very fortunate to be in a school that did cover World Religions. But sadly, 99% of the students in his school are aggressively fundamentalist Christians who harass MindGate for being Buddhist. This, however, is not the norm in American public schools. Communities differ.

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    I would be reluctant to see Buddhist tenets taught in school in any other than an historical context. To do so would open the door to teaching other 'religious' approaches in something other than an historical context.

    To my mind, all or any of this is unnecessary force-feeding. I don't teach my kids Buddhism and I certainly don't expect the schools to. I'm much more interested in encouraging decent, kind and honest human beings than I am in encouraging decent, kind and honest Buddhists.

    Just my micro-take.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I would be reluctant to see Buddhist tenets taught in school in any other than an historical context. To do so would open the door to teaching other 'religious' approaches in something other than an historical context.

    To my mind, all or any of this is unnecessary force-feeding. I don't teach my kids Buddhism and I certainly don't expect the schools to. I'm much more interested in encouraging decent, kind and honest human beings than I am in encouraging decent, kind and honest Buddhists.

    Just my micro-take.
    I think it's the right position. I do believe schools have a responsibility to teach moral education...although we don't dare call it that. At my middle school we bought a canned package that -- each morning during the announcements -- covered, in about a minute, some basic principle of life. Occasionally there would be pieces that would mention influential men (such as Ghandi and MLK) and words they had spoken. The Golden Rule was often mentioned. Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad, and men of their likes were never mentioned, though value references to common religious principles were sometimes mentioned in passing.

    Someone mentioned teaching meditation. I'm not sure that's a public school's role. And, as soon as you tried it, someone would say, "See, you're trying to sneak in Buddhism."

    Public education is America today is contentious enough. Let's not add any more controversy to it.

    Back in the 1950s, when I was in elementary school, the four major Protestant churches in our small town were all one block away...one on each corner of the main intersection. One day a week we were allowed to (perhaps I should say forced by our parents) to leave school one hour early to go to religious instruction. The fact that the Catholic Church was further away...tough. That the house where the Mormons held their church was definitely not a walkable distance -- tough. That there was no synagogue in our town -- tough.

    It seems to me that school has its "place" in society. And church (synagogue/temple) has its place in society, too...but they are different "places". Both can thrive in their different roles.

    Just my view.



  • Buddhism shouldnt be taught in schools. It is a path that people should find for themselves in future times.

    Let children be children..

    In fact Children are the 'real' buddhists, and buddhas..They live in the NOW. they do fantastic jobs living life.

    Teaching them religions and philosophy etc will only f8ck them up.
    Its too deep.

    Just teach them to be a good person and not to swear or talk to strangers etc etc..but as for 'way of life theorys, forget it)

    Here is a zen quote:
    'When the student is ready, the teacher will appear'

    Leave them too it for now.

    best wishes on your path.

    (ps, i only comment once on questions and never ever look back so if anyone wants to address a comment at myself, then PM me. Im not getting into any debates, or arguements)

    cheers, bless
  • DakiniDakini Veteran

    Let children be children..
    Teaching them religions and philosophy etc will only f8ck them up.
    Its too deep.
    People WAY underestimate children. Many children need stimulating, intelligent material, not dumbed down curricula or childish passtimes. That can do more to turn kids off to learning than anything else. I was fortunate to learn about Buddhism, the 4 Noble Truths, and the Eightfold path in 3rd grade Christian Sunday school. The inherent logic immediately grabbed my attention, and I've been hooked ever since. A friend of mine had a similar experience with Buddhism when she was 10. MindGate learned about Buddhism in Middle School. Kids of all ages can appreciate the logic, and the precepts. Buddhism provides a welcome alternative to Christian "make-believe". Don't sell kids short. A course in World Religions is perfectly appropriate for gradeschool kids.

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    One thing people haven't mentioned is how difficult it is to get teachers to follow the approved curriculum. This gets very touchy when you are talking about teaching religious principles.

    And, are you going to have an opt-out, or opt-in program?
  • Jason_PDKJason_PDK Explorer
    I find that different R.E teachers have a preference to certain a religion and tend to concentrate on that one mostly and only briefly address the other ones.
    I think it is a nice subject to study but not a necessary one.

    Jason
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    edited May 2011
    I find that different R.E teachers have a preference to certain a religion and tend to concentrate on that one mostly and only briefly address the other ones.
    I think it is a nice subject to study but not a necessary one.

    Jason
    My teacher was a Christian. He talked very little on Christianity. I'm assuming he assumed we already knew about the basics, so why talk more on it?

    Religion is a necessary thing to be taught in schools. Whats more important? Learning about x = (-b +- sq.rt(b2 + 4ac))/2a or about how one should live their life? What the meaning of life is? What your weird neighbor who has a wife who dresses in all black believes and whether or not you should be terrified by him and her?
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited May 2011
    No argument from me on the uselessness of algebra and trigonometry (OMG, wait'll you get to "trig", MG! :sawed: ) I think cultural literacy should be taught in schools, and religion could be part of that. It's an increasingly inter-cultural world we're living in, understanding others who are different from ourselves is important.

    But then...I've always been mathematically challenged... :banghead:

    P.S. Maybe the black-clothed neighbor's wife thinks she's in NY City. ;):lol:
  • Religion is a necessary thing to be taught in schools.
    Religious education in schools should be completely banned IMO.

    Spiny
  • Religious instruction in public primary, middle and high school has no place - in the USA. It will never be tolerated. There are specifically private religious schools parents may choose - if practical - that provide a typically slanted religious education towards the denomination by which the school is supported. Otherwise, religious instruction is relegated to one day per week typically provided by churches. There are endless variations on the "Sunday School" theme in churches and temples. They all share one common thread - "tax exempt". That's the kicker. As long as taxpayers can assert their insistence upon a separation of church and state there will be lawsuits to prohibit prayer or even the hint of religious instruction in public schools. Comparative world religion classes can be offered as an elective in community college curricula - that's about as close as public schools will ever come.
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