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Utilizing anger

edited May 2011 in Philosophy
I know anger in Buddhism is considered a poison, but I feel their are certain situations where expressing the inner tension of anger may be beneficial.

For example:

My mother is constantly on my case. It is as if she has to criticize, condemn, fix, or judge whatever it is that I am doing; or there lack of. "You should be doing this rather than this", "No, that's not good, only these type of people do that", "I don't like how you're doing that", "You always do this to me", "Why can't you just be like this", "What's wrong with you" etc. etc.

Over time I have come to notice these thought patterns, and have become accustomed to them. With the help of Buddhism I find myself dealing with the situations better than I would have in the past.

However, when my mother starts playing out her usual dramas concerning "ME", I find myself taking a more passive role. I understand she is suffering and in a state of misery, so I try to respond mindfully and in a manner which will not "set her off" or cause her any more "pain", so to speak. But in doing so I feel like a doormat in many cases. I have to carefully pick and choose the words I say in the hopes she wont "explode". But I'm finding she doesn't respond to my rationality. I feel the words I say are a waste in many cases. She just does not understand. And many times when I'm trying to respond to the situation mindfully, there's a voice in my head that says "if you just express a little ounce of that frustration or anger you're feeling, she'll be off your case in an instant". Which has proven successful.

Today she was on the verge of starting a usual drama and rather than sitting back and being a passenger on the roller coaster ride, I kind of shot up a spurt of "anger energy" and she was gone in a flash. Problem solved. Now I'm not angry at my mother, I never am. She is how she is and that's fine. But these energy's inside get built up which I seldom express. I feel utilizing anger in the way I did is more effective than just permitting her to act in the way she does.

Maybe I'm conceptualizing what I'm feeling incorrectly, I don't know. When I expressed the irritation, frustration, anger whatever I wasn't even angry to be honest. It was more of a "NOT TODAY MOM!". And she understood she couldn't get away with what she usual does. Kind of like a dog growling at you if you are coming too close to it and it doesn't want to be bothered. Is that not anger?

Thoughts?





Comments

  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    edited May 2011
    Are you truly angry? Or are you expressing false anger to avoid confrontation? Hissing is okay, just not biting - as long as the intent is pure. Or so Ajahn Brahm has said.
  • People can be angry and not let it eat them alive. Sometimes anger helps us teach something to someone without them getting physically hurt. Remember when you were young and you did something which you almost got hurt, and your mom scolded you?

    I remembered having a really old table fan in my house. It's the kind with the really wide grilles and metal fanblades. I was sitting with my mom while she was reading to me, and began to look at the fan. I was reaching out to the fan when my mom pulled me away violently and scolded me severely. Then she took a cucumber and put it in the fan, and I saw the damage it went through. I realized she was teaching me the damage that fan could have done to me.

    In Tibetan Buddhism, you realize that almost all of the deities have a peaceful and wrathful aspect. For example, Avalokiteshvara's wrathful aspect is that of Hayagriva, Tara's wrathful aspect is that of Krodhakali, Padmasambhava's wrathful aspect is that of Dorje Drollo, and so on. But we realize that there is essentially no difference between the peaceful and wrathful aspects, just appearing differently to different people. Kind of like appearing as a judge to a criminal and as a loving mother to her son at the same time.
  • Remember when you were young and you did something which you almost got hurt, and your mom scolded you?
    Q:

    Can scolding be used skilfully?

  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    People can be angry and not let it eat them alive. Sometimes anger helps us teach something to someone without them getting physically hurt. Remember when you were young and you did something which you almost got hurt, and your mom scolded you?

    I remembered having a really old table fan in my house. It's the kind with the really wide grilles and metal fanblades. I was sitting with my mom while she was reading to me, and began to look at the fan. I was reaching out to the fan when my mom pulled me away violently and scolded me severely. Then she took a cucumber and put it in the fan, and I saw the damage it went through. I realized she was teaching me the damage that fan could have done to me.
    What does scolding a child have to do with anger? Its bad parenting if the parent is ANGRY at the child, rather than compassionate or understanding - from my standpoint, at least. Feel free to look up my thread on this if you want.
  • I think anger is never a good thing to have in ones self. letting out anger is not healthy, nor is bottling it up for that matter. beat it with patience, understanding and compassion. it's called a poison for a reason.
  • edited May 2011
    @jgpp
    Of course scolding can be used skilfully. Parents do it all the time.

    @MindGate
    She wasn't angry at me. I don't think any parent in their right mind can be angry at a child. She was only doing something to protect me. And when I did something wrong she would be angry at my actions and the trouble I brought on to myself. Never me as a person. That's real compassion and understanding.

    I remember @federica talking about real compassion and idiot compassion. Real compassion sometimes means we need to show anger to someone who has no idea what the H-E-double-hockeysticks he is doing. Sometimes it can mean giving someone a tight slap to someone to calm him down so that he can think properly.
  • @jgpp
    She was only doing something to protect me. And when I did something wrong she would be angry at my actions and the trouble I brought on to myself. Never me as a person. That's real compassion and understanding.
    My mother scolds me in the name of doing something wrong all the time. Unfortunately her understanding of wrong is different than that of my understanding.

    I remember @federica talking about real compassion and idiot compassion. Real compassion sometimes means we need to show anger to someone who has no idea what the H-E-double-hockeysticks he is doing. Sometimes it can mean giving someone a tight slap to someone to calm him down so that he can think properly.
    a person. That's real compassion and understanding.
    I get where this is coming from however. Link to post?


  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    @jgpp:
    You can have the original if you want... :D

    The difference between Idiot Compassion, and Real - or Wise - Compassion, is that Idiot Compassion is a crutch, a force that actually takes away any need for the person one is compassionate for, to do anything for themselves.
    Wise Compassion, enables. It shows the person loving care and concern, but leaves them in no doubt that the solutions to their problems lie with them, not with anyone else.
    And sometimes, Wise Compassion comes in the guise of a kick in the pants, or a cold bucket of water.
    Wise Compassion doesn't always seem kind or gentle, and "fluffy-pink with glitter sprinklin's".
    Sometimes, Wise Compassion says - Get a Grip!

    But Anger is not, and should never, ever be used as, an accessory to Wise compassion.
    In fact, anger is a crock, and the most difficult and hottest emotion to transcend.
    It is the only thing The Buddha said we ought to Kill.

    http://what-buddha-said.net/drops/Slaying_Anger.htm

    we all know the caveat that being angry with someone is like throwing coals at them. We burn ourselves first.

    so, to answer your original point - I think you may have done the right thing:.
    Anger at your Mum, is not acceptable under any circumstances.
    But a careful choice of firm words, might be.

    And bearing that in mind, you'll sometimes find that even a pointed silence, can be very effective.
    Actions speak louder than Words.
    Walking away from a situation without a word being said, can be more succinct than anything else you might choose to respond with..... ;)
  • @jgpp
    Of course scolding can be used skilfully. Parents do it all the time.

    @MindGate
    She wasn't angry at me. I don't think any parent in their right mind can be angry at a child. She was only doing something to protect me. And when I did something wrong she would be angry at my actions and the trouble I brought on to myself. Never me as a person. That's real compassion and understanding.

    I remember @federica talking about real compassion and idiot compassion. Real compassion sometimes means we need to show anger to someone who has no idea what the H-E-double-hockeysticks he is doing. Sometimes it can mean giving someone a tight slap to someone to calm him down so that he can think properly.
    Anger isn't the motivator of your mums scolding though. your right about true compassion knowing when to be asertive, and purhaps even aggressive. but that isn't anger as the emotion and poison. because compassion is the motivator for the scolding, this isn't anger having a use. anger is feeling that manifests in things like aggression and violence, compassion is a feeling that manifests in other ways, and sometimes for best needs to be loud.
    compassion does not use anger.

  • auraaura Veteran
    What is your mother expressing when she is, as you say, on your case?
    She is expressing fear, fear, and more fear.
    Why does she just keep barking over and over and over?
    Observe closely for what reasons a dog keeps barking over and over and over... Fear!

    You can bare your teeth and bark louder at a fearful barking dog and get it to run away... for now
    just like you can bare your teeth and bark louder at a fearful barking person and get that person to run away.... for now
    but it doesn't really solve the dog's problem...
    nor the person's problem...
    nor yours.

    Why is anger regarded as a poison?
    Because it clouds mind and body and blocks the strength and wisdom necessary to pursue right action.


  • Sometimes it is necessary to "hurt" with good intentions such as a surgeon performing an amputation to save lives.

    However, acting out of anger is never skillful even if it is a mother punishing her child. There is inner tension arising from a perceived threat and fear. If one must "hurt", the ideal is to do so not out of anger but compassion and love.
  • edited May 2011
    I too don't think expressing anger can ever be skilful. Firmness as a result of clarity and awareness of a situation - yes, but expressing inner anger isn't using wisdom.

    I like this Ajahn Chah quote about anger:

    "A woman wanted to know how to deal with anger. I asked when anger arose whose anger it was. She said it was hers.

    Well, if it really was her anger, then she should be able to tell it to go away, shouldn't she? But it really isn't hers to command.

    Holding on to anger as a personal possession will cause suffering. If anger really belonged to us, it would have to obey us. If it doesn't obey us, that means it's only a deception. Don't fall for it.

    Whenever the mind is happy or sad, don't fall for it. It's all a deception."


    http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha011.htm
  • And another tale -

    In 1979, Luang Pu went to Chantaburi to rest and to visit with Ajaan Somchai. On that occasion, a senior monk from Bangkok — Phra Dhammavaralankan of Wat Buppharam, the ecclesiastical head of the southern region of the country — was also there, practicing meditation in his old age, being only one year younger than Luang Pu. When he learned that Luang Pu was a meditation monk, he became interested and engaged Luang Pu in a long conversation on the results of meditation. He mentioned his responsibilities, saying that he had wasted a lot of his life engaged in study and administration work well into his old age. He discussed different points of meditation practice with Luang Pu, finally asking him, "Do you still have any anger?"

    Luang Pu immediately answered,

    "I do, but I don't pick it up."

    Source: Ajahn Dune Atulo - Gifts He Left Behind - http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books/Ajaan_Atulo_Dhamma_Legacy.htm
  • Thoughts?
    Thanks for your posting. Personally, I think you will be able to observe and learn what to do yourself over time. Thankyou for your gentle heart.

    Namaste,
    Abu
  • I think I should clarify myself. My parents never acted out of anger towards me. They acted out of care and concern for me. But you can definitely see anger being expressed.

    At the end of the day, I think it's healthy to feel anger. We're only human. It's when we act out of anger which becomes dangerous. Anger is a very powerful emotion. A lot of energy comes with anger. We can actually channel that angry energy to do something constructive and yet not hurt anyone in the process.

    We can use MLK Jr as an example. He had a lot of anger and dissatisfaction towards how colored people were treated in his time, but he did not let that anger control him. Instead he took that energy and channeled it to the Civil Rights movement.

    In my opinion that's how we should view anger. As a source of energy to do something good.

    And if I was misinterpreted or misunderstood, it's my personal fault for not making myself clear.
  • No probs Dorje dear, don't worry about it.

    Anger can be dissolved by placing one's awareness with breathing and gently allowing mind and body to relax.

    :)
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    Jgpp,

    I can understand why it would feel so correct to use anger in that way. I think two seperate things are happening. One, you are using a tone and force that your mom can hear easily. Two, you are creating a boundary to define your personal space.

    However, the pattern you describe sounds like a codependent one. Mom steps on your toes, you let her and feel walked on, you feel disempowered because you don't want to "hurt her feelings", you get angry and find the power and need to express your boundary. This cycle is pretty common when we haven't worked out how to do the same thing in a healthy way.

    Perhaps, if you wish, you could google "creating healthy boundaries" or "codependence" and read about some better ways to express and observe your space. Anger is never ideal for us, and there are ways of defining our boundaries without it.

    With warmth,

    Matt
  • aMattaMatt Veteran

    At the end of the day, I think it's healthy to feel anger. We're only human.
    Anger is normal, we're only human. Anger isn't healthy, and doesn't produce clean fruit... its called a poison for a reason. Much like an orange seed never produces an apple fruit, anger never creates the conditions for compassion or clarity.

    MLK was so effective because he loved all people, even the oppressors, and was able to caputre that compassion into words. As fed describes it, his was "wise compassion" where he would speak about the terrible patterns that the whole country was caught in.
  • maartenmaarten Veteran
    I don't think expressing anger is necessarily wrong. To remain silent can hurt someone much more, because they may feel they are being locked out. However, I think it's important to not direct the anger towards a person. You can say 'I hate it when you tell me how to live my life' but you shouldn't say 'I hate you for telling me how to live my life'.
  • Ajaan Geoff's talk on anger is excellent.
    http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/179/talk/5976/
  • Jgpp,

    I can understand why it would feel so correct to use anger in that way. I think two seperate things are happening. One, you are using a tone and force that your mom can hear easily. Two, you are creating a boundary to define your personal space.

    However, the pattern you describe sounds like a codependent one. Mom steps on your toes, you let her and feel walked on, you feel disempowered because you don't want to "hurt her feelings", you get angry and find the power and need to express your boundary. This cycle is pretty common when we haven't worked out how to do the same thing in a healthy way.

    Perhaps, if you wish, you could google "creating healthy boundaries" or "codependence" and read about some better ways to express and observe your space. Anger is never ideal for us, and there are ways of defining our boundaries without it.

    With warmth,

    Matt
    Insightful post.

    Thank you.
  • @aMatt

    I believe that poison in tiny amounts can be beneficial. How would you know what peace really is when you haven't known violence? How would you know what joy really is when you haven't known sadness?

    Of course I'm being nonsensical here. Maybe I need to practice harder.
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    @aMatt

    I believe that poison in tiny amounts can be beneficial. How would you know what peace really is when you haven't known violence? How would you know what joy really is when you haven't known sadness?

    Of course I'm being nonsensical here. Maybe I need to practice harder.
    Lol, maybe not harder... but more consistently. :)

    I do understand what you mean though... how contrasting polar forms gives us a sense of understanding. But, we have that contrast already. We don't need any more anger, greed, lust...

    Like knowing not to touch a hot coal with our fingers... the coal injures us, and we don't need to do it to keep our nerve endings alive. We can stay grateful for the lessons of the painful sensations, but don't need them, even in small amounts.

    Though, it is of course normal to use them, until we get fed up enough with the dissatisfying results that we sit down and learn how to get good results.
  • edited May 2011
    @aMatt maybe we're coming from different points of view. I'm taught to view the poisons as something not to be eliminated, but to be used as a tool for advancing. Something like a pharmacologist who develops antidotes from snake venom.
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    Are you saying we should intentionally cultivate suffering because it gives us the chance to practice buddhism?

    Anger, in my view, never develops an antidote for itself. It is simply toxic and to be eliminated through a clear and open mind. We can observe anger and let it dissipate, but we do not use anger as a basis for intended action.
  • No I'm not saying that. I'm saying that anger, ignorance, pride, etc. are poisons, and yet they still are part of being human and the human experience. Of course you don't act on them. You allow yourself to feel them and motivate your practice.

  • She wasn't angry at me. I don't think any parent in their right mind can be angry at a child.
    I don't know what country or culture you're from, dorje, but in the West, lots of parents get angry at children. Parents often aren't in control of their emotions, they have a lot of emotional baggage themselves, etc. This causes them to behave unjustly and destructively towards children. They forget that the children are "just children". It's very sad.

    @jgpp Anger's ok if you don't get attached to if you don't lose control. I think you did the right thing. It sounds like you're practicing a lot of mindfulness. And we've had several discussions here in the past about the "doormat issue". Drawing boundaries is a healthy way of avoiding becoming a doormat. In the incident you cited, you let your mother know you had boundaries. Keep up the good work. :)

  • I guess it's that fine line between anger and assertiveness. Assertiveness can sound like anger to the sensitive soul, and someone who convinces themselves they they are just an assertive individual may actually be covering up the fact that they are easily angered.
    I think firm assertiveness can be useful. It's dangerous when irritation and a loss of self control are driving it though. Usually anger is that loss of self control, when you want to hurt the other person, you know? Haven't you ever caught yourself getting angry, just because someone else is mad at you... then suddenly burst into laughter when you realize you're not actually that mad after-all? I think anger can dissipate that easily, when you catch yourself huffing and puffing.

    I had a patient who was continually taking himself to the toilet, even though he has fallen multiple times. I knew he had a lot of pride and didn't think he needed help from anyone. He was getting mad at us, every time we intervened. I was getting really frustrated in my head because I continuously caught him ignoring my advice. Up until this point, I had been ever sweet and patient, because that is the type of personality I am supposed to display in front of patients. Finally after catching him up and about, tangling himself in his oxygen cord, I said firmly (and with a dead pan expression), "I know you're tired of us bossing you around, when you've always been independent, but if you fall again... you could break your hip and you'll wind up having to stay here even longer. I know that you can walk by yourself, but I want to be here on the off-chance that you DO stumble. If you keep getting up like this without ringing, you're going to give me a heart attack! Then we'll probably end up sharing this room, where I'm going to ring that call light every time I catch you getting up!"
    He looked at me surprised since I'm normally ever-subservient and sweet, then burst out laughing. He actually did ring after that. So I managed to be firm, yet kept my anger slightly in check. My aim wasn't to hurt him, but to seem authoritative.
  • My friend, it might be hard, it might take time, and it may even require a lot of practice, but anger, hatred, ill will, or resentment will never conduce to anything worthwhile, even if your negative energy is kept to a minimal level, and even if you only display it in a small amount and in a precise method. The bottom line is that it will only bring you down, and your mother. You say that if you but speak one word of anger in retaliation to your mother's inner pokes and prods, then she stops. Does that then not show you that you have fed her inner monster. You gave her the response that she was looking for. You gave her the food. You gave her the fuel that she needed for her fire. You know that this does not conduce to anything worthwhile, and you know that it will only proliferate the process of suffering for herself and yourself too.
    You need to make this into a practice. You will go back and forth many times with your mother, however if you constantly apply your mind to letting go of thoughts of resentment, and letting go of the tension that causes those thoughts, and abiding compassionate for your mother - it is clear that she is suffering, otherwise she wouldn't treat you the way she does - you can both eventually over come this issue. If you wish to make a point, or show her that she is causing suffering for her self and for you, do not do it out of resentment. When the time comes for understanding and healing to occur, it will occur naturally, and you will know what to say. Good luck, and have fun. :)
    -Tikal
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