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The ethics of killing

edited May 2011 in Buddhism Basics
By most people's standards, I'm a pretty well-rounded, ordinary 24 year old athletic type of guy. I'm considered nice, polite, and I'm well-liked. By the standards of most Americans, I'm a good guy.

But an event this weekend got me thinking. I was at a state park playing a tennis match with a friend. After the game, I had lunch and went to the garbage pale to throw something out and I noticed a bustling anthill amidst the grass. Habitually, I raised a foot into the air and flattened their little home. I had stepped on many ants in doing so, enough that I later had to take a stick and grind away at the bottoms of my sneakers to scrape out the layer of mud and little ant bodies that I didn't want on the floor of my car.

As someone who is interested in the ethics of killing and karma from a theological standpoint (I am not spiritual), what would be the implications of this dynamic? How could one be a good person while also causing death?

How is the karmic debt I've built weighed? I like most animals, I have a dog, I even like insects. Most people think I'm a charitable person. According to some beliefs, would I be reborn in the hell realms and then be reborn as an ant as many times as there are ants that I've crushed? I've stepped on a lot of bugs over the years, a good number of them on purpose. But what about my good acts in society and toward other people? Are those counted for less?

Comments

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    They're all counted, the motivation behind an act is the most important factor in deciding the intensity of the karma. Here's a good page on Karma.

    http://viewonbuddhism.org/karma.html

    And an excerpt on purifying past negative karma:

    WHAT CAN I DO TO REMOVE PREVIOUS NEGATIVE KARMA?
    Nobody likes to suffer, so we all like to rid ourselves of negative karmic potential.
    There are several possibilities, and in fact we may need to try and apply all of these methods as much as we can:

    To avoid having negative thoughts that lead to negative actions in the future, we need to observe and control our own thoughts and behaviour, and destroy our negative attitudes.
    Similarly, we can observe/study (meditate) our own mind and encourage positive thoughts that lead to positive actions.
    We can avoid negative karmic seeds to ripen by purifying it, using the four powers of purification (see below). Although this does not eliminate the negative karmic actions, it can avoid the results to occur.
    Ultimately, when we realise emptiness directly (see the page on Wisdom), and remove all our delusions, we are not under the control of past karma anymore.
    THE FOUR POWERS OF PURIFICATION
    The purification practices found within Buddhism are not unlike the practices applied in many other religions. The most essential mental factor that one requires is sincerity or honesty with oneself. When one wants to purify past negative karma, one has to do some action with the correct motivation.
    This is summarised in the following Four Powers of Purification:

    Power of the Object: One should practice thinking of all sentient beings one may have hurt. Traditionally, one remembers all sentient beings and the Three Jewels of Refuge (Buddha, Dharma and Sangha), by generating compassion for all sentient beings and taking refuge.
    Power of Regret: This should not be senseless guilt or self-recrimination, which are said to be useless emotional torture. What is intended here is to examine oneself and one's actions and to recognise that negative actions done in the past were very unwise.
    Power of Promise: As a logical consequence of the above, one should promise not to repeat these negative actions. It is good if one can promise to avoid a negative behaviour for a specific time, or at least promise that one will put effort in avoiding repetition. Not being honest at this stage makes the practice useless or even harmful to oneself.
    Power of Practice: Basically any positive action with a good motivation can be used as practice. Traditionally in Buddhism, one can practice e.g. making prostrations (throwing oneself to the floor - as a means to destroy pride), making offerings (to counteract greed), reading Buddhist texts (to counteract ignorance and negative thoughts), reciting mantras etc.
    It is often explained that one needs to clear a field by purifying it from rocks and weeds, then planting seeds by study and meditation, giving water and fertiliser by doing positive actions, and automatically new harvest will grow.

  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited May 2011
    For what it's worth, I'll offer the same response I posted at Dhamma Wheel back in April:

    The Buddha defined kamma (literally 'action') as intention, and he essentially took the position that we, as sentient beings, have functional choice via intention operating within a broader framework of causality that conditions the choices available to us at any given time. More importantly, from the Buddhist point of view, kamma is primarily psychological in nature, with the results or fruits (vipaka) of intentional actions being experienced as pleasant, painful, or neither pleasant nor painful feelings (vedana) in the mind. In other word, kamma is how we intentionally react to things, our behaviour. (The Buddha basically took the Jain's deterministic view of kamma and ethicized it.)

    That said, it's not about good or bad as much as skillful and unskillful. In Buddhism, all intentional actions are understood to have potential consequences, and actions that cause harm to others and/or ourselves are generally considered to be unskillful and something to be avoided. But if what the Buddha had to say about kamma is true, I don't think there's anyway to know precisely how these things will be experienced (AN 4.77), especially considering the complexity of this/that conditionality.

    Our experience of the present is conditioned by a multitude of factors, including the results of both past and present actions. For all we know, the results of our past unskillful actions (e.g., killing ants) may count next to nothing compared to all the skillful actions and mental states we've cultivated throughout our lives. More importantly, the Buddha never condemns people merely for making unskillful choices or breaking the precepts; he simply urges them to learn from their mistakes and to make an effort to renounce their unskillful behaviour with the understanding that skillful behaviour leads to long-term welfare and happiness. That's one of the main reasons the precepts are framed as 'training rules' rather than strict commandments.

    In this case, the unskillful motivation to harm may be subtle, and may not cause too much stress or suffering right now; but repeatedly cultivating and giving in to the urge to harm may build up over time, becoming an ingrained habit. This can result in not respecting other forms of life and/or inclining the mind towards harming rather than avoiding harm in other circumstances, which can condition more violent behaviour that'll result in more suffering in the future (e.g., maybe losing your temper and harming a pet). Then again, maybe you'll never suffer much over it because of other competing factors. It's impossible to know.
  • what would drive you to do that? pure entertainment? if you get entertainment from killing then that is not a positive mind state to be in.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2011
    Yes.
    Truly Mind-Less.

    I would say that anybody who is capable of being so wantonly destructive and capable of eliminating and eradicating lives in such a way, out of sheer fun and habit, without justifiable cause reasoning or motivation (save personal satisfying gratification) is only a few steps removed from being able to pick up a gun and go crazy in an office block.

    No? Really?
    Why not?

    Start moving up the animal chain... see at which point "up the ladder" you would find it hard to deal a blow to a group of those creatures, in identical circumstances....
    small pets?
    Dogs?
    Monkeys?
    Which 'level' is it that now repulses you?

    Why don't the others "below"?
    it's the same thing....
  • edited June 2011
    I don't think I've ever killed something bigger than a spider, except for maybe a little frog that I accidentally trampled while out running. Rodents and such are "above" because they're complex and let's be honest, not easily killable. Insects are "below" because they are simpler and smaller... and quite easily fit under my shoe when I stamp my feet on them.

    Also, my dog is affectionate and gets me my slippers. Why would I ever want to deal a blow to my dog?
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    Whoever harms the harmless & innocent beings,
    upon such very fool, pain of evil promptly return
    as dust thrown against the wind.
    Dhammapada 125

    Whoever injures, with weapon or stick, beings
    searching for their happiness - when after death -
    seeking same happiness, such fool never finds it!
    Dhammapada 131

    Once in Savatthi the Blessed Buddha said this:
    What, householder friends, is the Dhamma explanation befitting to oneself?
    Here, householder friends, a Noble Disciple reflects thus: I am one who wishes
    to live, who does not wish to die; I desire happiness & do not like any suffering.
    If someone were to take my life, it would neither be pleasing nor agreeable to me.
    If I kill whatever another being: One who also wishes to live, who also does not
    wish to die, who also desires happiness & who also dislike suffering, that would
    neither be pleasant nor acceptable to that other being either...
    What is displeasing and disagreeable to me, is also displeasing and disagreeable
    to any other being too. How can I inflict upon another being what is displeasing
    and disagreeable to myself? Having reflected repeatedly thus, then gradually:
    1: He/she will carefully avoid all destruction of any life-form whatsoever...
    2: He/she will persuade others also to abstain from all destruction of any life...
    3: He/she will speak praising harmlessness and avoidance of all & any killing...
    In exactly this way is this good bodily behaviour purified in three respects!!!
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    I don't think I've ever killed something bigger than a spider, except for maybe a little frog that I accidentally trampled while out running. Rodents and such are "above" because they're complex and let's be honest, not easily killable. Insects are "below" because they are simpler and smaller... and quite easily fit under my shoe when I stamp my feet on them.

    Also, my dog is affectionate and gets me my slippers. Why would I ever want to deal a blow to my dog?
    I think its not so much about "above" and "below" here. But about the discomfort it causes you. If you kill a mouse there may be blood or an ugly body left to deal with. Same with your dog, he gives you a pleasant feeling and so you want him to stick around. As for killing insects, setting out an ant trap because they are infesting your home is one thing, mindlessly stepping on an ant hill out of pleasure or just because its there is another thing entirely. As I said in my earlier post the intensity of the karma is primarily about the intention. Wanton destruction of an ant hill is about as negative as it gets. You don't have to go around saving earthworms when it rains but it shouldn't be that hard to prevent yourself from randomly stepping on anthills.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited June 2011
    I personally think a lot of people kill insects or animals that remind them the least of themselves. Maybe they have no problem killing a spider because it's completely different and we don't really think of a "spider's mind", but then you have a mouse with four feet, ears, eyes, and teeth that wants to be happy, isn't that far removed from cats and dogs... and those aren't that far removed from us...

    Eventually you come to see that no matter how small, all life is driven by the desire to fulfill its wants and needs, and is averse to pain. There's some level of mind there, some capacity to observe the surrounding world and interact with it. We just have to get over our natural/unnatural aversions.
  • Karma is everything. From the size of an invisible water vapor to the immensity of a planet, that is the vastness of karma. The karma you have caused by accidentally killing ants is very microscopic. No need to worry about it. In a different note, if you had developed an attachment to killing, and lets say you started with insects, and moved up to bigger animals, this attachment can grow within and really cause you a great deal of suffering later in life and the next, so I would be careful with a killing mentality, even with insects.

    metta
  • I don't think I've ever killed something bigger than a spider, except for maybe a little frog that I accidentally trampled while out running. Rodents and such are "above" because they're complex and let's be honest, not easily killable. Insects are "below" because they are simpler and smaller... and quite easily fit under my shoe when I stamp my feet on them.

    Also, my dog is affectionate and gets me my slippers. Why would I ever want to deal a blow to my dog?
    I think its not so much about "above" and "below" here. But about the discomfort it causes you. If you kill a mouse there may be blood or an ugly body left to deal with. Same with your dog, he gives you a pleasant feeling and so you want him to stick around. As for killing insects, setting out an ant trap because they are infesting your home is one thing, mindlessly stepping on an ant hill out of pleasure or just because its there is another thing entirely. As I said in my earlier post the intensity of the karma is primarily about the intention. Wanton destruction of an ant hill is about as negative as it gets. You don't have to go around saving earthworms when it rains but it shouldn't be that hard to prevent yourself from randomly stepping on anthills.
    That's true. It's about the size too. I don't want to have a dead mouse body laying around. But the ants, they just get flattened and carried away by other ants, or they get gunked up in the treads of my sneakers... and I couldn't care less what's stuck to the bottom of my feet.
  • edited June 2011
    "Habitually" you squished the anthill? Buddhism is about (aside from non-violence) mindfulness. Be mindful of your thoughts, actions, and impulses. If you are, then you can catch yourself before you commit wanton destruction of hundreds of little creatures' home. Buddhism is about using mindfulness to change habits, whether thought-patterns that may cause ego or self-esteem issues, or mundane habits like swatting flies or mosquitos.

    Do you go around habitually squishing anthills? WHY?! Is this a sort of compulsion? You're not able to just walk past the anthill and go on your way? Just trying to understand the mentality. So many senseless deaths. What's the point?

    On the other hand, it's good that you're reflecting on the incident. Reflect, now, on your motivation. Examine what was behind the impulse to kill. :p Whatever that is, you can change it.
  • That's true. It's about the size too. I don't want to have a dead mouse body laying around. But the ants, they just get flattened and carried away by other ants, or they get gunked up in the treads of my sneakers... and I couldn't care less what's stuck to the bottom of my feet.
    I really hope you are trolling. This is abhorant.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I agree.
This discussion has been closed.