what if you just gave up Buddhism?

genkaku

What do you suppose would happen if you gave up Buddhism and just took the dog for a walk?

Talisman

I think that's the point.

Hawkins

^^^^^

Yishai

I think that's the point.

I read this 3 times and got 3 different interpretations. Buddhism means to live your life well. Buddhism is inseparable from action. Everything is Buddhism.

I think it's un-give-up-able. Almost like meditation through no-meditation XD

A: "I quit Buddhism, and walked the dog."
B: "That's very Buddhist of you."

vinlyn

Everything is Buddhism.

This statement has no meaning.

Yishai

Everything is Buddhism.

This statement has no meaning.

You took that quite literally.

vinlyn

Everything is Buddhism.

This statement has no meaning.

You took that quite literally.

The Catholic could say, "Everything is Catholicism".
The Muslim could say, "Everything is Islam."
Etc.

andyZ

The Catholic could say, "Everything is Catholicism".
The Muslim could say, "Everything is Islam."
Etc.

Anyone can say that, but can they practice it?
Not seeing a difference between walking a dog or meditating or washing your hands is the practice of Buddhism.

aMatt

If you can see no difference between washing your hands and walking the dog, you must be doing one of the three incorrectly.

Jeffrey

The point Yishai is making is that Buddhism isn't a hobby. I think that if you drop buddhism and don't make a big deal about it it is ok. If you are very anger and attached thinking then it is unnecessary suffering.

Yishai

The Buddhist could say, "Everything is Catholicism".
The Buddhist could say, "Everything is Islam".
The Buddhist could say, "Everything is everything".
The Buddhist could say, "Everything is nothing".

There is meaning in everything. There is meaning in nothing.

[Sounds all cryptic, eh?]

buddhacoe

when hungry - eat
when tired - lie down and sleep
when thirsty - drink
when you need to work - work
when the dog needs walking - take him for a walk
etc etc etc.......

Just live, No mystery. The way i see it is, as long as you do whatever you do honestly, then you cant escape Buddhism anyway.
Unless your a total d1ck Head and commit crimes then dont worry.
Do what you gotta do. Enjoy live. X

p.s ( when you say what if you just gave up buddhism - well this would mean to give up practising the 8 fold path which in my eyes are very common sense things that everyone should be following anyway whether buddhist or not )

vinlyn

The Buddhist could say, "Everything is Catholicism".
The Buddhist could say, "Everything is Islam".
The Buddhist could say, "Everything is everything".
The Buddhist could say, "Everything is nothing".

There is meaning in everything. There is meaning in nothing.

[Sounds all cryptic, eh?]

I might choose a different word than cryptic.

seeker242

You'll never get enlightenment?

andyZ

If you can see no difference between washing your hands and walking the dog, you must be doing one of the three incorrectly.

What I meant to say is that those are just activities and they're all important. When you truly wash your hands or walk your dog, or meditate there's nothing else just this activity. At least that's the Zen's view on practice and life.

Talisman

Zen still makes a distinction between zazen (just sitting) and mindful daily activity (just walking/cleaning/driving/etc.) But I know where you're coming from.

grout4cake

Buddhism is another religious category,something that separates us.However the essence of Buddhism ,contemplative practice holds the key to world peace and harmony...read this interesting article about "killing the Buddha" www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=content

genkaku

Zen still makes a distinction between zazen (just sitting) and mindful daily activity (just walking/cleaning/driving/etc.) But I know where you're coming from.

@Talisman -- Could you elaborate on the distinction that Zen makes? Sounds to me as if you're cruisin' for a bruisin'.

Talisman

@Genkaku

Zazen, as illustrated in the Fukanzazengi by Dogen, is seated meditation. Not standing/washing dishes/walking the dog meditation.

santhisouk

What do you suppose would happen if you gave up Buddhism and just took the dog for a walk?

I suppose you mean giving up on Buddhism but not necessarily disagreeing with some of the teachings that Buddhism has to offer. I hope that's what you mean. Unless you are saying that there's no suffering, and who cares if there is etc. then yes take the dog for a walk.

metta

Dakini

. Buddhism means to live your life well. Buddhism is inseparable from action. Everything is Buddhism.

I think it's un-give-up-able. Almost like meditation through no-meditation XD

My first reaction upon reading the OP was the same as Yishai's. Buddhism becomes a way of life to the point that one can't separate one's actions and approach to life from Buddhism. I might quit Buddhism, but I couldn't quite behaving and thinking like a Buddhist. How do you wad compassion up like a piece of used paper, and throw it in the trash? Why would you suddenly abandon techniques of dealing with stress and disciplining the mind that have served you well for years? I agree; Buddhism is un-give-upable. You can stop going to sangha, you can secularize meditation by calling it the "relaxation response", but would you give up meditation altogether, if you're benefitting from it? Would you give up mindfulness? If so, why?

Cinorjer

What do you suppose would happen if you gave up Buddhism and just took the dog for a walk?

Then you and the dog would be going for a walk. What would happen if you continued Buddhism and took the dog for a walk? You and the dog would be going for a walk.

You can't get away from us that easy. We're like the mob. Or Hotel California.

Really, once you wake up to the reality of Dukkha and the nature of the world, it's not like you can put the blindfold back on. You can stop meditating and throw away the statues of Buddha, but the world is what it is. Like the folks here said.

genkaku

Aldous Huxley, in a different context, once wrote, "If the intellectual travels long enough and far enough, he will return to the same point from which the non-intellectual has never started."

mugzy

A visitor asked the Buddha, "What do you and your followers practice that distinguishes your sangha from others?" The Buddha answered, "We sit, we walk, and we eat." "But Sir," the visitor protested, "what's so special about that? Everybody sits, walks, and eats." The Buddha continued, "This is true. But when we sit, we know that we are sitting. When we walk, we know that we are walking. And when we eat, we know that we are eating."

aura

You might find out that your dog's real name was Bodhidogma all along...
and that his own great compassion in this world had prompted him to attend and help teach you!

Cinorjer

You might find out that your dog's real name was Bodhidogma all along...
and that his own great compassion in this world had prompted him to attend and help teach you!

Question: "Why did Bodhidogma come from the East?"
Answer: "Three pounds of kibble."

caz

Its amazing how much we rely on meditation to keep things smooth, I didnt do it for about 6 months and my mind was disturbed and unpeaceful and everything that followed was shit. Once you start to walk the path you can see how bad things where when you werent.

SpinyNorman2

What do you suppose would happen if you gave up Buddhism and just took the dog for a walk?

I have no dog ;-)

Spiny

NOTaGangsta

You'll end up somewhere you don't want to be on your next rebirth.

SpinyNorman2

You'll end up somewhere you don't want to be on your next rebirth.

Because of not having a dog? ;-)

Spiny

NOTaGangsta

that was to genkaku.

oh and, what did you do with the dog?!!! :O!!!

genkaku

You'll end up somewhere you don't want to be on your next rebirth.

With respect, how do you know that? If you base that observation of text or belief, well, I wish you the best. But if you have some other perspective, I would be interested in hearing it.

NOTaGangsta

You'll end up somewhere you don't want to be on your next rebirth.

With respect, how do you know that? If you base that observation of text or belief, well, I wish you the best. But if you have some other perspective, I would be interested in hearing it.

Don't worry about using words to show respect, the truth of the intention is in your own mind. Frankly, while learning from texts taught by the Buddha I believe in "karma" and associated actions that causes bad karma. By treating it all with a arrogant attitude will just cause more harm for yourself. Regardless how clever one looks on a forum, karma is what it is.

aMatt

You'll end up somewhere you don't want to be on your next rebirth.

Is this in regards to the original post? It seems awfully declarative.

aura

I think notagangsta was considering the "giving up Buddhism" idea as representing one who would be intent on truly abandoning/falling off the path entirely by truly abandoning all the precepts, and perhaps taking his dog along for the ride.

andyZ

Its amazing how much we rely on meditation to keep things smooth, I didnt do it for about 6 months and my mind was disturbed and unpeaceful and everything that followed was shit. Once you start to walk the path you can see how bad things where when you werent.

That's a good point. If one stops sitting that's pretty much the end of Buddhism for that person. I think Dalai Lama said that if it wasn't for 6 hours of meditation a day he would be a very angry person.

jll

If you gave up, then you can enjoy a six-pack quality beer.
Watch some porn, go to a strip club.
Pick up a hot chick and some meth and really enjoy.
Then you work hard on your career, buy nice house & cars.
Marry a nice gal, have a couple of kids. Send them to college & die of cancer or heart attack with your grandkids around your deathbed.
How's that?

genkaku

Regardless how clever one looks on a forum, karma is what it is.
_____________________

@notagangsta -- That's pretty clever.

Yishai

If you gave up, then you can enjoy a six-pack quality beer.
Then you work hard on your career, buy nice house & cars.

Already do this. I only ever drink one or two beers because I like the way it tastes. I never consume enough to promote heedlessness.

Watch some porn, go to a strip club.
Pick up a hot chick and some meth and really enjoy.

I won't do this though

Marry a nice gal, have a couple of kids. Send them to college & die of cancer or heart attack with your grandkids around your deathbed.

I already have a girlfriend whom I plan on proposing to. And the kids/death thing is pretty likely as well.

Dakini

That's a good point. If one stops sitting that's pretty much the end of Buddhism for that person. I think Dalai Lama said that if it wasn't for 6 hours of meditation a day he would be a very angry person.

There's so much more to Buddhism than meditation. If one lapses in one's meditation practice, it doesn't mean one suddenly has stopped being a Buddhist. Meditation is just one component among many. If one needs meditation as a crutch to get through the day feeling relatively unscathed, on needs to examine other aspects of one's practice (or the lack thereof). HHDL has the Chinese to deal with, I exempt him from what I just said.

andyZ

That's a good point. If one stops sitting that's pretty much the end of Buddhism for that person. I think Dalai Lama said that if it wasn't for 6 hours of meditation a day he would be a very angry person.

HHDL has the Chinese to deal with, I exempt him from what I just said.

I have a wife to deal with, can I be excused too? My view is from a Zen perspective, other people's mileage may wary. My teacher says that if I stop sitting please tell me about it because there's smth wrong with my practice. There's no other better practice that gives you access to your mind. In one of the zen monasteries in Japan they sit 15 hours a day. That's their practice, nothing else. Yes Buddhism is not only meditation but if it wasn't for the meditation of Buddha, we wouldn't be talking about Buddhism.

Ric

6 hours of meditation a day ? whoa with that kind of schedule you dont have time to be angry.

What happens when a Buddhist stops studying and following Buddhism....it depends on what he/she replaces it with.

I would also like to add, even though im not really a Buddhist but that I notice when my mind begins to be troubled I meditate less and less. I think there is something important about meditating on a daily basis, I like how Jon Kabat-Zinn puts it. Its like tuning your instrument before playing a concert where life is the concert and the mind is the instrument. So everyday you should tune your instrument or else you'll play a crappy concert.

Sabre

If you gave up, then you can enjoy a six-pack quality beer.
Watch some porn, go to a strip club.
Pick up a hot chick and some meth and really enjoy.
Then you work hard on your career, buy nice house & cars.
Marry a nice gal, have a couple of kids. Send them to college & die of cancer or heart attack with your grandkids around your deathbed.
How's that?

Sounds like the lyrics of some kind of rap song.

Dakini

I think there's much to be said for daily meditation, good point, Ric. But my point was simply that we're not going to kick someone out of the Buddhist ranks because their meditation practice has lapsed. If you practice mindfulness, compassion, the 4 Nobles, the 8Fold Path, etc. you still get to consider yourself a Buddhist. Just like we don't deny people the right to think of themselves as Buddhist practitioners just because they don't believe in rebirth.

To address the OP, I think that once someone has lived by these principles for some time, they become ingrained, and to walk away from them, to "give up Buddhism", you'd kinda have to become a different person, like completely regress to your pre-Buddhist state, which I'm not sure would be possible, let alone desirable.

genkaku

@dakini -- In Zen there is a descriptive that goes, "In the beginning, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers. In the middle, mountains are not mountains and rivers are not rivers. In the end, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers."

Does "regression" or "progression" play a part in this?

compassionate_warrior

"Give up" Buddhism? How, exactly, would one do that? :scratch:

upekka

as if one can give up the nature

Zayl

If I gave up on Buddhism then I would give up on Buddhism.

What answer do you seek?

taiyaki

that is the last thing that goes then you are totally free.
walk the dog. eat the soup. have a beer. dance around and sing a song.

Floating_Abu

Lord Buddha called the teaching a raft to cross over. Once crossed, one can recognise the raft, but no longer needs to carry it around perhaps.

SpinyNorman2

....have a beer. dance around and sing a song.

I'd NEED a beer before dancing and singing ;-)