How is the cosmos or Buddhist heaven described?

BeachHouseGuy

It's called the Cosmos right?

Cinorjer

Well, there is a cosmology. It's pretty complicated but fascinating to read about. Much of it was carried over from the existing beliefs of Buddha's time. There are multiple heavens and hells in this cosmology, just how many varies according to the teaching. Anywhere from 6 to 30 or so. They are called Realms, and our present universe, is one of them. The difference is, these are not eternal punishments or rewards. Good and bad karma generated in this life might put you into one of the other realms, but eventually that karma is used up and you return to here. It might take a very, very long time, though.

And Buddhist thinkers have pointed out that any time we experience joy, we are in a heavenly realm, and any time we experience anger and suffering, we are in a hellish realm. So the literal realms become metaphors for mental states.

And for the Pure Land Buddhists, Amitabha Buddha provides entry to his heavenly realm called Pure Land. But that's a different topic.

vinlyn

Well, there is a cosmology. It's pretty complicated but fascinating to read about. Much of it was carried over from the existing beliefs of Buddha's time. There are multiple heavens and hells in this cosmology, just how many varies according to the teaching. Anywhere from 6 to 30 or so. They are called Realms, and our present universe, is one of them. The difference is, these are not eternal punishments or rewards. Good and bad karma generated in this life might put you into one of the other realms, but eventually that karma is used up and you return to here. It might take a very, very long time, though.

And Buddhist thinkers have pointed out that any time we experience joy, we are in a heavenly realm, and any time we experience anger and suffering, we are in a hellish realm. So the literal realms become metaphors for mental states.

And for the Pure Land Buddhists, Amitabha Buddha provides entry to his heavenly realm called Pure Land. But that's a different topic.

I wouldn't quite agree, at least in terms of the heavens and hells depicted in many Thai Buddhist temples.

person

Check out the wikipedia page for a good breakdown of the realms and also how the universe unfolds over time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology

SherabDorje

Don't such descriptions of the cosmos vary by tradition? I would expect the Tibetan cosmology to be much more descriptive than, say, the Thai Buddhist one.

It has to be remembered that it's all to be understood as mythical in nature, and not actually existing as described. For example, the realms and hells and heavens are mythical representations of human spiritual states.

person

It has to be remembered that it's all to be understood as mythical in nature, and not actually existing as described. For example, the realms and hells and heavens are mythical representations of human spiritual states.

Its not really clear if this is the case. There's arguments on both sides for literal or metaphorical interpretations. Who knows which is right, either view can be useful for practice.

Here's a wiki page on the more metaphorical view:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_spiritual_realms

Cinorjer

The problem is, as pointed out, the nature of the various realms and how they work does vary between traditions.

kayte

Good and bad karma generated in this life might put you into one of the other realms, but eventually that karma is used up and you return to here. It might take a very, very long time, though.

I'm not well studied on the subject of Buddhist realms. Your statement above make it sound like the other realms are inferior to this world and that we have to work our way back to this world. Is that what you meant? How do we know that this world is preferable?

Vincenzi

The Thirty-one Planes of Existence

in my personal experience... they are very real.

taiyaki

this world is right in the middle. we can experience extreme suffering and extreme joy and everything in the middle. thus the human realm is the optimum place to attain liberation.

kayte

this world is right in the middle. we can experience extreme suffering and extreme joy and everything in the middle. thus the human realm is the optimum place to attain liberation.

I'm not trying to be dense, but how do you know this? No one, as far as I know, has returned from death to confirm this one way or another. If it's totally based on scripture, than how different is it from other religious beliefs on an afterlife?

taiyaki

just an assumption. you can view them all as different mental states.
also my subjective experience is different from yours. so don't make assumptions on what everyone else knows just because you don't immediately experience it in your subjectivity.

doubt is healthy but so is an openness to different ideas.

kayte

@ taiyaki- I'm not trying to invalidate your point of view. I just have a hard time with the concept.

vinlyn

@ taiyaki- I'm not trying to invalidate your point of view. I just have a hard time with the concept.

Kayte, good point. There are good folks on this site who will deny the possibilities of a Christian-style god, angels, heaven and hell, and the like, dismiss Christian scripture, and say that there is no evidence such things exist. Okay. Fair enough. Then, some of those same people will turn around and start talking about Buddhist gods (not small g), devas, Buddhist heavens and hells, and the like, and quote Buddhist scripture as proving those things exist.

More and more I think Buddhism should be looked on as a philosophy and not a religion.

kayte

@ vinlyn- You hit it right on the head. Thank you for expressing it so well. I agree, I'm more comfortable with a philosophical approach.

compassionate_warrior

Kayte, the teaching say that a human rebirth is most precious, so I think Tai was right, that here is the optimum place to learn lessons and advance spiritually. In the god realms, life is too easy, plus it's said the gods harbor a lot of jealousy (don't ask me why). So it turns out that the higher realms, that might sound cushy and preferable to this mess here on Earth actually have problems of their own, and aren't conducive to spiritual advancement.

We don't "know" this empirically. I'm just telling you what the teachings say (per my fuzzy memory ^_^ ) Whether or not someone chooses to believe in the realms is up to them. There was a thread asking about the 31 realms, but we didn't get any real answers from someone knowledgeable in those specific teachings. (I didn't know there were 31, I only knew about the typical 6 of Tibetan lore).

Vincenzi

I don't believe in the 31 planes because they are in scripture, I believe in them because of recalling past lives.

compassionate_warrior

That's the way to go, Vincenzi. Personal experience. :thumbsup:

kayte

CW- I'm not trying to challenge anyone's beliefs. I just don't share those beliefs. For all we know, this mortal plane could be the madhouse of the universe. It certainly seems that way. Life is precious but look at what we do with life as a species.

I'm not familiar with the Buddhist take on gods or god realms, so I won't comment on them specifically. I will say that, generally, the gods described by various religions don't sound like gods at all. I would think that a god would have to be greater than the most evolved human being. I've seen amazing selflessness, courage, generosity, and compassion demonstrated by mere mortals. Most gods don't even come close. They seem ruthless, vindictive, and jealous. Think Old Testament deity. Why would an advanced being indulge in such low behavior?

compassionate_warrior

Humans have the capacity to create heaven on Earth. But look at what a mess they've made of the place.