Who gets hurt?

betaboy

Namaste,

Who gets hurt when insulted? Physically, we can always say it's the body. But psychologically, who gets hurt (since there's no permanent entity called self)? And I read J Krishnamurti, and he says it's only the image that gets hurt.

BB

being

There is no separate entity, who gets hurt, that's true. It's only the mind, which can go into 'conflict mode' and manifest as 'negative' emotions, which can turn into uncomfortable/unpleasant bodily sensations.
We call them negative emotions only because they make us feel 'bad'. But in reality there is no inherent negativity or badness. It's only our perception, which labels them so, because we would prefer to not feel those emotions.

In the 'conventional language' we will still stay and feel as if it was us or others, who were hurt, because that's how 99.9% of us experience the world - with the attachment to this body and mind.

SherabDorje

It's the conventional, mundane, everyday self that gets hurt. And it really hurts. Only a spiritually and psychologically accomplished person could avoid being hurt. And since it's the conventional self that lives in and interacts with the world, it's important to practice compassion so as to avoid hurting other people.

If you're implying that the doctrine of no-self may somehow make psychological injury to other people all right in some way, don't. The conventional self is analogous to the body in this case by virtue of the fact that it lives in and interacts with the world, and we should be compassionate and non-hurtful according to the precept of non-harm.

I don't think Krishnamurti could be said to speak in any way for Buddhism. He doesn't claim to be Buddhist. Krishnamurti speaks for Krishnamurti.

seeker242

A Buddha is immune to insults. The question to ask now is what do other people have that a Buddha does not have?

santhisouk

In any situation, anybody can avoid letting a situation get out of hand. If we are insulted, we should be mindful of that insult and not let it arise within ourselves. The seed that sprouted out of their mental state affects them first before anyone else, and causes them to act. Anything they say or any action they may inflict on others will ultimately be because of their inability to contain that which has grown out from their mental state.

If you can be mindful of it and just let things be as they are, then that which was born out from them can stay with them, and let it affect them only. Just like an engine that you let it just keep running, it only wears itself down, and uses up its own fuel and energy. Just like a spark that ignites a flame within them, we don't need to take that fire from them. Let it burn with them and if it goes out of proportion then it burns out where it starts and not onto you.

metta

Lostie

Nobody is immune to insults, Buddhas included.

A Buddha is immune to insults. The question to ask now is what do other people have that a Buddha does not have?

seeker242

Nobody is immune to insults, Buddhas included.

A Buddha is immune to insults. The question to ask now is what do other people have that a Buddha does not have?

When you insult a Buddha, what is there that is there that can be offended?

person

I think you're falling into the trap of nihilism. Emptiness doesn't mean nothing exists at all. Rather its the way we see things as permanent, indepent entities that doesn't exist. So there is someone who gets hurt its just not independently exsisting. How can someone be hurt without a word or action that causes the hurt? The hurt and the thing that hurts arise in dependence on one another.

If an insult is said in the forest and no one is there to hear it is it still hurtful?

mugzy

The insult and the feeling of being insulted are separate. It is possible to be insulted and not feel hurt, despite the words being meant to be hurtful.

Lostie

Nobody is immune to insults, Buddhas included.

A Buddha is immune to insults. The question to ask now is what do other people have that a Buddha does not have?

When you insult a Buddha, what is there that is there that can be offended?

If Buddhism teaches me to be immuned to insults, what good is the practice?

mugzy

If Buddhism teaches me to be immuned to insults, what good is the practice?

I'm not sure I understand your question. What practice are you referring to? The teachings of the Buddha show us that negative emotions are created by our own minds, not something outside of ourselves. Would you rather be controlled by a mind that is afflicted by every unkind word and hurtful gesture that comes your way?

taiyaki

you can practice acceptance through gradual practice.
or you can just accept right here and now.

both help in the long term and the immediate.

seeker242

Nobody is immune to insults, Buddhas included.

A Buddha is immune to insults. The question to ask now is what do other people have that a Buddha does not have?

When you insult a Buddha, what is there that is there that can be offended?

If Buddhism teaches me to be immuned to insults, what good is the practice?

"I would make my bed in a charnel ground, with a skeleton for my pillow..
And cowherd boys came up and spat on me, urinated on me, threw dirt at me,
and poked sticks into my ears! While others, exultant & thrilled brought me
offerings of food, caskets of perfume & incense and garlands of flowers!
Yet I do not recall, that I ever showed any partiality towards any of them...
I was the same to them all! Neither arousing any fondness nor any aversion!
This was my ultimate perfection of equanimity..."

MN 12 Lomahamsanapariyaya
The Hair-raising Presentation Cariyapitaka III 15


A Buddha, by definition, has perfected equanimity and it is imperturbable, unshakable, immune to disturbances from anything

http://what-buddha-said.net/drops/Even_is_Equanimity.htm

I never said that Buddhism teaches people to be immune to insults and didn't mean to imply that it was some kind of practice. I was saying that the experience of full enlightenment causes a person to be immune to insults. Because a Buddha has full enlightment, a Buddha is immune to insults.

Lostie

Hi 242,

Thanks for the exchanges.

Just wanna say I'd first see myself as a human being. As humans, we are not immune to emotions. If I ever become a buddha, then so be it.

Sumaruff

Look to the underpinnings of the insulting mind.

nlighten

A man loved studying with Buddha so much he brought his best friend to hear him speak. His friend began to hurl one insult after another at Buddha and ask him cynical questions. He told Buddha he thought he was a fraud. The man kept asking his friend to be quiet. His friend just kept getting angrier and angrier and speaking in a louder voice.

When Buddha was done talking the man went over immediately to apologize. Buddha looked at the man smiled and asked him, “If I give you a gift and you refuse to take it who does it belong to?”

The man thought for a moment and then said, “I guess the gift belongs to me.”

Buddha smiled and said, “I don’t accept your friend’s gifts. There is certainly no need for you to apologize.”