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Homophobic Dalai Lama?!?
Hello all,
I have heard people mention that the Dalai Lama is anti-gay? Is this true? Or is this just some random rumour? If it is true then I can't believe he would be capable of such a thing! Homophobia is not compassionate AT ALL! I am very confused right now. Oh, say it isn't true!
I have heard people mention that the Dalai Lama is anti-gay? Is this true? Or is this just some random rumour? If it is true then I can't believe he would be capable of such a thing! Homophobia is not compassionate AT ALL! I am very confused right now. Oh, say it isn't true!
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Comments
The DL isn't being homophobic. Rather, he's going by commentaries on, and an expansion of, the rules for lay people that were written over 1500 years ago.
HH the DL is constrained by the ethical, moral and traditional teachings of his specific School of Buddhism. He may not agree with everything said, but as representative of his lineage, he has to go by the centuries-old scriptures.
he once said that thousands of years of teachings cannot be changed overnight by one man.
he has to be seen to abide by what he stands for, even though personally, he may think it's outdated and archaic.
Sorry about the "old Chestnut" comment.
needless to say, we've chatted on this before !
The DL isn't being homophobic. Rather, he's going by commentaries on, and an expansion of, the rules that were set for secular life, written over 1500 years ago. He says one has to go by the rules, one can't just make them up as one goes along. But the fact is that he's contradicted himself on this score numerous times. He gave a talk once in which he said birth control is ok, since conditions have changed and the world is now over-populated. So, pick the teaching that works for you.
What he is not, is an expert on sexual matters or romantic relationships.
Nor is he the Buddhist Pope, in spite of what the media would like to treat him as. He doesn't have the authority to write or rewrite the rules of the church as he wants. The Dalai Lama's official views on homosexual relationships have to reflect what the religion and culture say it should be, and that is a very conservative culture.
This is pretty much a summary of several threads. The subject does pop up from time to time.
(sorry about the double attachment- funky signal...)
But cut the newbies a little slack. :rockon:
as others have said, he represents one sect of buddhism and there are many more that do not share in this opinion. actually, i'm not aware of any others that actively denounce homosexuality, but i assume that there must be some (anyone else know?). my personal feelings are that while i find it quite disappointing, he is just a man and not above error, so perhaps it should be expected.
i think it is speculation to say that he probably doesn't agree with it, but upholds it anyway because of tradition. personally, i find this concept almost more horrifying. a person should always stand up for what they believe in, popular or not. i don't think he is a coward and i believe HHDL would do this and therefore i think that he does believe that sex is for procreation only. i don't think that he would chose to be so close minded, however, people usually don't. i just hope that he has the good fortune of experiencing something that will open his mind.
Many buddhist teachers denounce most forms of recreation, including eating, television, surface communication, and sexual activity. Its not a homo vs hetero vs pick-a-hole... just caution on how sensual pleasure introduces complexities into the mind.
beware the icecreams!
...not being too serious, but some buddhists take non clinging towards aversion.
Mmm, good, again
Gone, awww, crave
It seems to me that we in the West are too quick to try and adjust Buddhism to our modern worldview, or dismiss elements we don't agree with. We know a lot about sexuality and gender etc., but we don't know for sure. And if you add the notion of rebirth to the whole debate, it suddenly becomes more interesting.
What are your thoughts?
And views on male/female energies have changed in the modern world as well, such that both men and women have male and female energies within themselves.
Even in Native American religions, gay people have not only been accepted, but sometimes revered as strongly spiritual people who are gone to for advice and spiritual guidance. I believe it's in Navajo (Dineh) spirituality gay or bisexual people are referred to as "two-spirits", as they have the spirits of both male and female.
The idea of the need for strictly male-female union in tantric sex may be outdated as well. Who's to say that gay people can't channel their energies in the same way?
Thanks for your comment. I agree with what you say.
There's an interesting article on Alex Berzin's site:
Explanation of Buddhist Sexual Ethics: An Historical Perspective
In regards to tantra, it would not be much different.
When HHDL says sex is for procreation - he is overstating the obvious - it is a biological function. Like anything else - including the HHDL's commentary - sex is a fluid topic with obvious variations and permutations. It follows then, that the HHDL desires that the recipients of his teachings realize the truth of the way things are and as long one does no harm they may choose to engage in the permutations of the biological function we know as "sex".
Reminds me of the story of two masters sitting in a garden in silence for a long time - then one says to the other laughingly - "They call that a tree!"
If in the Tibetan system people were aware enough to consider the energy exchange involved, the monks wouldn't rape boy novices and use them as sex toys.
OK, SherabDorje, you can bring out the dead horse! Or maybe a mod will give the thread a merciful death.
You're welcome. There's a ton of other good stuff on that site too.
It always strikes me as funny how some Buddhists seem to cling to the idea of non-clinging.
It is sad that sexual-phobias exist and still instills fear among people.
Sorry for repeating others opinions above but this is how it flowed out as I wrote it.
these are the reasons that i say that "homophobia" is an outdated word for someone who is anti-homosexual. it refers to a specific type of person who hates gays, definitely not all. and definitely not HHDL.
I have two gay uncles and harbour no fear of homosexuality. Since I was raised near them and hold them dearly in my heart.
Etymology
The term homophobia was formed like the names for many other phobias (e.g. arachnophobia) from homoios (όμοιος, greek for same) and phobia (φοβία, greek for irrational fear') .[6][7][8]
First documented uses
George Weinberg, a psychologist, is credited as the first person to have used the term in speech.[9] The word homophobia first appeared in print in an article written for the May 23, 1969, edition of the American tabloid Screw, in which the word was used to refer to heterosexual men's fear that others might think they are gay.[9]
I will take your opinion and add to what I feel my belief on the subject is.
Well that might be homophobia too quite literally.
The point I was trying to make is that if you have a religious belief about proper sex. That is a different thing from not liking homosexual PEOPLE. SEX vs PEOPLE.
The Dalai Lama, imho, is not an expert on sexual relations in any regard. He is a monk, a renunciate, a celibate man raised in a conservative atmosphere. Sex is indulgence in sensual pleasure, a hinderance to complete awakening. He doesnt "support" any sexual activity, let alone gay sex which from his point of view serves no purpose except to feed sensual attachment and craving.
In my opinion, however, sex can serve many purposes for two people sharing a loving and committed relationship, whether its for the purpose of procreation or not. But how is he supposed to understand this having never been in a sexually active relationship? I'm not going to judge him or anyone else for feeling the way they do, as long as they don't impose their beliefs on me and my way of living.
Buddha was a little more dramatic then HHDL's 'can't approve'.