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Did the Buddha teach Buddhism?

BuckyGBuckyG
edited June 2011 in Buddhism Today
PLEASE correct me if you think I'm wrong, but it looks to me like BuddhISM came AFTER Gotama's parinibanna (physical end). :buck:

Comments

  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    Yes, of course. The Buddha taught the Dharma, a path out of suffering. The "ism" came after his death. The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist. He was a visionary and a teacher.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Does Bucky teach Buckyism ;) hehe
  • BuckyGBuckyG
    LOL! "Bucky" is just a title. It has a LONG story to it, but is mainly a titular fabrication...so, no, I don't teach "Buckyism." :buck:
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    He said titular hehe
  • BuckyGBuckyG
    best word ever
  • VincenziVincenzi Veteran
    remember also that Buddhism is how BuddhaDharma is called in the west.
  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran
    "Buddhism" as an "ism" is an invention of Western scholars.

    Also, Marx famously remarked he was not a Marxist. :p
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    PLEASE correct me if you think I'm wrong, but it looks to me like BuddhISM came AFTER Gotama's parinibanna (physical end). :buck:
    It seems so. From what we can tell Buddhism might not have started in anything like the format we have now until 200 years after his death. Many schools have been lost. There where splits and schisms and fractures over heresy. The history of this period is fascinating - it certainly changed my understanding of Buddhism.

    "The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist" ;)
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    Thickpaper, did you see the recent article in the NY Times, about the discovery of some very old Mahayana sutras that predate by hundreds of years any of the Pali Sutras? The article said that Mahayana and the southern school developed in tandem, influencing each other, rather than one after the other as had hitherto been believed.
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    Thickpaper, did you see the recent article in the NY Times, about the discovery of some very old Mahayana sutras that predate by hundreds of years any of the Pali Sutras? The article said that Mahayana and the southern school developed in tandem, influencing each other, rather than one after the other as had hitherto been believed.
    CW, do you have a link to that or some advice for an efficient search for it?

    That would be amazing if it's true.
  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran
    @SherabDorje,

    This might be of interest, though I'm not sure it's the same discovery CW is talking about:

    http://www.tricycle.com/feature/whose-buddhism-truest
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    Thanks.
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    Thickpaper, did you see the recent article in the NY Times, about the discovery of some very old Mahayana sutras that predate by hundreds of years any of the Pali Sutras? The article said that Mahayana and the southern school developed in tandem, influencing each other, rather than one after the other as had hitherto been believed.
    Yes, about the Ghandari Dharmapada. I look forward to when they are published and translated! But even this is much after the Buddha's life.

    But they are kinda irrelevant to the OP's point - there was no orthodoxy, no doctrine, no cannon, no suttra during the Buddha's time. They all came after - whether it was 3 centuries (as I think is suggested) or 3 months - makes little difference to the point at hand.

    So there may not have been Buddhism during the Buddha's life, but there was certainly dharma during it... and before it, at every point in space and time and possibility. And that's good enough for me.

    :)

    High-5








  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    BTW, that link from sattvapaul was apparently correct and a REALLY GOOD READ. I recommend it to all.

    I know. Off topic. That's all.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited June 2011
    The topic police seem to be taking a break. Besides, I don't thing it's off-topic. ;)
    BTW, that link from sattvapaul was apparently correct and a REALLY GOOD READ. I recommend it to all.

    I know. Off topic. That's all.
    Aren't we pretty well agreed that the Buddha taught the Dharma, and "Buddhism" as a religion (or whatever) developed later? Jesus didn't teach Christianity. He was a Jew teaching something new, but still, he was a rabbi, he didn't conceive of founding a new religion.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited June 2011
    >Did the Buddha teach Buddhism?

    Did the Buddha teach the 4NT and the 8FP, adherence to precepts, etc.? Yes. :)
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited June 2011
    I say this only tongue-in cheek:

    There is no such thing as Buddhism; only Buddhists!
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    At the risk of partially repeating myself, that link that was posted leads to an article titled "Whose Buddhism is Truest?". Of course IMO I think the Buddha just taught what he taught, and "Buddhism" evolved later and continues to evolve.
  • BuckyGBuckyG
    I'm currently settled on the notion of bodhipakkiyadhamma if for nothing else than to help prevent unnecessary (study) tangents and stick to the "basics." :buck:
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran

    CW, do you have a link to that or some advice for an efficient search for it?
    Sorry for the delayed reaction. Actually, it looked very similar (almost alike) to the article at the link sattvapaul provided.



  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited June 2011
    Buddha taught 'his' "Dhamma-Vinaya", thus, he taught Buddha-Dhamma-Vinaya

    :)
    Upatissa [Sariputta] said: "Serene are your features, friend. Pure and bright is your complexion. Under whom, friend, have you gone forth as an ascetic? Who is your teacher and whose doctrine do you profess?"

    Assaji replied: "There is, O friend, the Great Recluse, the scion of the Sakyas, who has gone forth from the Sakya clan. Under that Blessed One I have gone forth. That Blessed One is my teacher and it is his Dhamma that I profess."
  • jlljll Veteran
    Buddha taught the truth. Buddhism is the name given a religion claim by millions of Buddhists; many of whom know little about what Buddha really taught.
  • thickpaperthickpaper Veteran
    Buddha taught the truth. Buddhism is the name given a religion claim by millions of Buddhists; many of whom know little about what Buddha really taught.
    But Buddhism has a range of doctrines and dogma's that might not be the truth, unlike Dharma, the truth of which cannot be sucessfully doubted. This is the big rift between the two.
  • jlljll Veteran
    some minor corrections
    Buddha taught the truth. Buddhism is the name given to a religion claimed by millions of Buddhists; many of whom know little about what Buddha really taught.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited June 2011
    Buddha taught the truth. Buddhism is the name given a religion claim by millions of Buddhists; many of whom know little about what Buddha really taught.
    But Buddhism has a range of doctrines and dogma's that might not be the truth [according to common interpretation], unlike Dharma, the truth of which cannot be sucessfully doubted. This is the big rift between the two.

  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited June 2011
    This question is one that it's almost par for the course to skirt about, I think.

    What DD quoted five posts above is commendable and right, but there's also another issue at play here: Namely, the point that one is not relying on his own authority but of one more magisterial and profound.

    In other words, to say "Under that Blessed One I have gone forth. That Blessed One is my teacher and it is his Dhamma that I profess," is to appeal to something which is —in the last analysis— impersonal and much more objective than one's own [mere] opinion.

    But all that we do or say or believe quite misses the point, in my estimation, if we don't constantly bear in mind that the Buddha pointed out a way —which is essentially direction—and that each of us has a unique path to follow. In that sense, Buddha could not and did not "teach Buddhism," but merely pointed out a way for us to exit our slumber and awake to who we really are.

    I haven't given much thought to whether the answer to this question bears upon whether one is of a True-Believer temperament or not. However, it's interesting to follow a lot of the threads on this forum to see what the True Believers say.
  • BuckyGBuckyG
    Hi Nirvana,
    What do you mean by True-Believer temperament? :buck:
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited June 2011
    exit our slumber and awake to who we really are...
    "who we are"... :scratch:
    ‘Bhikkhus, this Dhamma is visible here and now, immediately effective, inviting inspection, onward leading, to be experienced [verified] by the wise for themselves.'

  • SpacelessSpaceless
    Buddhism never ceases as like the space. Gotama was supposed to parinibanna upon his attainment under a bodhi tree, but fortunately was implored on behalf of all. Gotama never teach, just reveal, as when one teach, there is expectation of the student. Buddhism quality on teacher and student is based spontaneous loving-kindness. Please reflex upon your loving-kindness, is there a teacher and student per se..hahaha :p
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited June 2011
    He taught Gotamaism! :buck:
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