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Water will be the cause of war in the near future?

jlljll Veteran
edited June 2011 in Buddhism Today
Many experts predict that countries will go to war to fight for scarce water resources.
During Buddha's time, there was a severe drought and two neighbouring countries were about to go to war to fight for water. Buddha intervened and asked the 2 kings. 'What is more valuable? Blood or water? Why are you willing to shed so much blood for water?' The 2 kings came to their senses and a war averted.

Comments

  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    lol that is why it is important to practice hard and get our shit together.
    reality is the communication between dna and cns = consciousness. evolution is both vertical and horizontal, but the process leads right back to the vertical consciousness. external evolution is in a process of failure because of the lack of recognition of the vertical process. humanity will bring about its own destruction or evolution. only time will tell.

    off to the zafu.
  • Fertiliser, or lack of, will cause the wars of the future. We are running out of phosphate supplies quickly and there is no natural substitute. We'll run into this problem well before we run out of oil or before we are all fried or drowned from global warming.

    Stock up on tins.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    Greed, hate and ignorance, as it has always been. :)
  • Experts predict many things. Just look at all the movies about the different theories about the future of this planet. We are definitely not going to be without water according to that movie "Waterworld", and some other movies that I can't remember off the top of my head. Yes whoever can prevent a war between two nations is definitely Buddha-like in my eyes. :)

    metta to all
  • YishaiYishai Veteran
    Did you watch "Flow: For the Love of Water"? I believe that movie is a documentary based on that theory that water is becoming scarce.
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Just for clarity sake I want to point out that what they're talking about is clean, fresh water. At the moment we're using "fossil" water supplies from melting glaciers and ancient aquifers to meet the demand. These are being used up faster than they are being replenished. There will come a point where clean water will be harder to come by. Those of us in the industrialized world will be able to use purification and desalinization but that will be quite a bit more expensive. In the less developed parts of the world it will probably lead to violence and chaos that will spill over to the rest of the world.

    There are things that can be done to greatly increase the efficiency that we use water with. Drip irrigation where water is fed through tubes directly to the base of the plants in small amounts so you're not losing so much to evaporation that comes from the more common spray type watering process. Also, there's something called "grey" water, this is water thats been lightly used, like from the shower or washing your hands. This water can be reused for things like flushing the toilet or in some cases watering the lawn etc. So there are solutions but yes indeed this is going to be a source of stress and conflict in the near future.

    Google "water scarcity" and you can start to see how serious people are taking this. Also here's a good short video that sums up some of the main points.

  • jlljll Veteran
    You are joking rite? quoting 'Waterworld'.
    Experts predict many things. Just look at all the movies about the different theories about the future of this planet. We are definitely not going to be without water according to that movie "Waterworld", and some other movies that I can't remember off the top of my head. Yes whoever can prevent a war between two nations is definitely Buddha-like in my eyes. :)

    metta to all
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Many experts predict that countries will go to war to fight for scarce water resources.
    During Buddha's time, there was a severe drought and two neighbouring countries were about to go to war to fight for water. Buddha intervened and asked the 2 kings. 'What is more valuable? Blood or water? Why are you willing to shed so much blood for water?' The 2 kings came to their senses and a war averted.
    Is there a link?
    And yea, there will definitely be some kind of war because of World War 3.

  • And yea, there will definitely be some kind of war because of World War 3.
    Leon, could you clarify this for me? Thanks.
  • lol I dont think Waterworld was a theory of anything.

    Water scarcity is true and it is very regional. As far as it causing war, its always a possibility but I think rather than creating war, desalination processes will become more efficient and cheaper thus giving a pretty much unlimited potable water supply.

    The problem is we always wait until the cheaper version is in dire straits before we start working on new solutions.
  • Did you watch "Flow: For the Love of Water"? I believe that movie is a documentary based on that theory that water is becoming scarce.
    You beat me to it - I would also recommend watching this documentary. From what I've read in news sources- wealthy individuals and corporations are buying up lands that contain major aquifers. Third world countries are already experiencing the "corporatization" of water supplies. Some genetically modified crops require far more water than the unaltered species. In some parts of the USA, they're trying to make it illegal to collect rainwater.

    Too many people are so disconnected from the environment that they have no sense of conservation or using only what they need. This will make things worse.

    Not to be disrespectful of anyone's beliefs, but the Buddha story of him stopping a war by talking to the kings doesn't matter. This is not how things will go down in the here and now. The rich and powerful will determine the outcome and guess who loses.

  • jlljll Veteran
    edited June 2011
    'The rich and powerful will determine the outcome and guess who loses.' True, but at some point when the masses rise up out of sheer desperation, then the rich & powerful will be in trouble too. French revolution for example. But then again maybe they will get on Richard Branson's plane and escape for a vacation on the Moon or Mars.
    BTW, any rich & powerful people on this forum? So far, Lincoln is the most powerful but I dont think he is rich.
  • The masses can and do react when pushed too far and it gets ugly really fast. Wouldn't it be refreshing to see some intelligence and genuine concern for the common good be applied to the problem first for a change?

    It's hard to determine a person's tone in this format. Is your last comment an attempt at humor or a sarcastic dig?
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    So far, Lincoln is the most powerful but I dont think he is rich.
    "Powerful"? Because he's the admin of a forum? He's powerful on this forum. But you have no idea who some of our members are. We have doctors, a physicist, lawyers, all kinds of people. They may prefer anonymity.

    Yes, kayte, it would be wonderful--miraculous, even--to see humankind deal rationally with the challenges facing it, instead of letting greed run its course.

    About water: Bechtel Corp. took over the water supply in Bolivia and even managed to get a law passed that rainwater was illegal for individuals to collect and use. There was a huge public uprising, and the international corp. got run out of the country. There's a film circulating about it.

    Just as a semi-relevant aside: the WTO was a REALLY bad idea! Corporate control that transcends national sovereignty. Does not bode well.

  • I've been wondering how to ask something similar to this question for a while. I agree that water will undoubtedly be a cause for war in the near future- in fact, it already has, in the Darfur region of the Sudan, where nomads in need of water for their animals took up arms against the people with access to water. Other resources, such as food and oil, may be causes for war, and arable land may be a problem with climate change. I did finally read something about mass extinctions in the ocean in the Huffington Post the other day due to overfishing and climate change.

    How will we as Buddhists respond to what may be a mass breakdown of civilization? I have a son who is 15 and is tending toward Buddhism- what should I teach him about that? I myself am 59 and have health issues, so I don't expect to be around for the worst of it, but what should I advise my son to do? What will you younger Buddhists do? Will there be "necessary wars"? Do we sit back and watch as the world tears itself apart and then start "letting people notice" that we are Buddhists and hope the present Buddhadharma bounces back? Are we going into the next "very dark epoch"?

    My main question is how Buddhists who are around for a massive breakdown of civilization can and should respond.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited June 2011
    They should respond like any decent human being would (which we should be doing now, since we can see it coming): organize to try to wrest control back from the corporations. Dismantle the WTO. Physicist and activist Vandana Shiva is great on these topics. She's interviewed on NPR from time to time, SD. Check her out. She's published books, have you read any of them? She's done a lot in India to keep control over agriculture in the hands of local producers, beating back the corporations (Monsanto, among others) who are propagating genetically-engineered crops and trying to prohibit small producers from using traditional forms of those crops. We need more people like her. Raise your son to do well in his chosen field and to apply his expertise to activism on behalf of humanity. Human survival on this planet may well depend on a new generation or two of such people.

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited June 2011
    ..
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    My main question is how Buddhists who are around for a massive breakdown of civilization can and should respond.
    I have a generally pessimistic view of this. I don't think enough people will wake up in time, people in general only change when they have to. I think humanity will stand on the edge of the abyss and have to decide. I do think that there are enough people who when presented with annhialation will turn back and change their ways though and there will also be plenty who will continue off into the abyss. What I feel we can do is to put ideas and systems into place so that when humanity does decide to change its ways there will be a path for us to follow and we won't be without hope. Like I said though, I have a pessimistic view, hopefully things can change before they get too bad.
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited June 2011
    As a point of scientific trivia - the earth has exactly the same amount of water it's had since it was created (give or take). What's in short supply is *fresh* water, and in the right places. There's waaaaaaay more than plenty of water on earth - there always has been. It's just that we're not good at recycling it in the form we need it to be in.

    One potential up side to global climate change is that we might be able to harness the sun's increasingly strong energy to distill sea water for human use.

    Also, phosphorous is in no way a limiting factor in agriculture. It is vastly over-used, much to the detriment of the environment around the world. THere are, and always have been much better alternatives. Maybe not as cheap, but much better.

    Ultimately, the answer to all of these vexing questions is simply to STOP HAVING SO FRIGGIN MANY BABIES!!! The earth *does* have a finite carrying capacity for human beings. And we *are* reaching it at blinding speed.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited June 2011
    But babies are so cute and people get so much approval for having them. One lady in an aol chatlroom stated that a person was a failure if they did not produce grandbabies.
  • edited June 2011
    But babies are so cute and people get so much approval for having them. One lady in an aol chatlroom stated that a person was a failure if they did not produce grandbabies.
    Well, we know what her agenda is. She's probably hassling a son or daughter for not having a first child fast enough. Or for deciding to not have any.

    Too many people are so disconnected from the environment that they have no sense of conservation or using only what they need. This will make things worse.
    One problem is that if the residents of an area conserve water, it only encourages developers to build more.
    Municipalities should have invested in waste-water recycling (grey water) long ago. We're using fresh water to water gardens and for flushing toilets, and that's unnecessary. Some Native American communities have had waste water treatment and recycling systems for years. If they can do it, why can't other communities?
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran

    And yea, there will definitely be some kind of war because of World War 3.
    Leon, could you clarify this for me? Thanks.
    Due to water being scarce.
    Based on my opinion!
  • But what does "because of World War 3" mean? I mean, World War 3 could end up being because of resource wars, but resource wars because of World War 3?

    ?
  • jlljll Veteran
    In that case I dont want to be a success.
    But babies are so cute and people get so much approval for having them. One lady in an aol chatlroom stated that a person was a failure if they did not produce grandbabies.
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    My main question is how Buddhists who are around for a massive breakdown of civilization can and should respond.
    Don't tell him how to respond, you're old and mentally slowing down. :) Help him become present and still minded, then trust he will know what to do when the time comes to decide. Morality and circumstance shift so quickly these days, it would be like trying to find the best way to teach a kid how to dial a rotary phone.

    Its better to teach him to see clearly, in my opinion, because then his own wisdom and compassion will guide him.
  • edited July 2011
    "Ultimately, the answer to all of these vexing questions is simply to STOP HAVING SO FRIGGIN MANY BABIES!!! The earth *does* have a finite carrying capacity for human beings. And we *are* reaching it at blinding speed."

    So very TRUE. But the perfection of the earth is this:, the more sexual irresponsiblity humans have, the larger the population becomes, the less resources there are to meet demand, the more wars humans wage on this account, Due to increased conflicts the more humans are terminated daily, the smaller the population becomes, the less the demand outweighs the supply, until finally the equilibrium restores itself to its original state. Civilization for this very reason is inevitably doomed to fail, because its entire foundation is built upon the aversion to death and an attachment to birth (or just sex). But as is demonstrated by the cycle above, there's only so much life to go around, and if we take it for granted it will be taken back from us by one way or another.
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