Meditation and "thinking"

pauliwago

Hey guys,
Is there a meditative practice that allows for "thinking"? What I mean by that is when you have a decision or event that needs contemplating, would thinking about them while meditating be counterproductive? I'm new to meditation, and everything I've heard about so far seems to revolve around clearing the mind (please correct me if I'm wrong!)

taiyaki

i believe that is called contemplation. contemplation can be done via meditation. the point is the be really mindful of your thoughts so you can get straight to the point and even process new creative solutions to the challenge at hand.

you don't even need to meditate really. the best way to contemplate is with a pen and paper. writing helps solidify our thinking process and takes away the monkey mind in that we actually write it down and then from there we don't have to think about the same thought over and over and over again.

also meditation isn't about getting to some kind of no-mind. it's about allowing everything to be as it is. if thoughts arises, just watch them and they go away. same with emotions and bodily sensations.

when i meditate i get a lot of interesting thoughts that relate to ideas that i was working with throughout the day. meditation does allow for creative solutions to manifest. it gives space and acceptance, thus you can see how ideas manifest so easily.

but that is just another perk/fruit of meditation. the real goal is to realize your true nature and how reality functions.

santhisouk

Meditation is the stilling of the mind. It's not possible to not think, so we should just be mindful when thoughts do arise. Just imagine if you could hold your thoughts...you would notice your bodily functions, the air going in and out of your lungs, your heart beating, your blood flowing, your lungs expanding and contracting, your bones settling, and your muscles relaxing.

You can also notice your thoughts occurring, your bodily feelings, your emotional feelings, your awareness, your unfocused thoughts, your thoughts of sensual desires, your awareness of pleasure, your awareness of displeasure, your awareness of suffering, and your awareness of the freedom from suffering. It's possible to notice all these things even for just a fraction in time, and yet we can lose this awareness in a split second, once thinking arises. Some food for thought.

metta

Amelia

...Is there a meditative practice that allows for "thinking"? What I mean by that is when you have a decision or event that needs contemplating, would thinking about them while meditating be counterproductive?...

Koan practice. Or just make up your own meditation and think something over, if you wish. Experiment. You're harming no one.

i believe that is called contemplation. contemplation can be done via meditation. the point is the be really mindful of your thoughts so you can get straight to the point and even process new creative solutions to the challenge at hand...

What taiyaki said!

...the best way to contemplate is with a pen and paper. writing helps solidify our thinking process and takes away the monkey mind in that we actually write it down and then from there we don't have to think about the same thought over and over and over again...

I agree with you. I also do writing practice.

Chico

the point is the be really mindful of your thoughts

you don't even need to be mindful of your thoughts, this sounds like it would be obstructing to me rather than helpful, instead just think and be with the dance, or fight, or ecstasy, or despair of the thoughts, i mean, if it is contemplation we're focusing on, mindfulness is secondary, a flowing awareness of what is at hand, or what is at mind is what is important, no duality in our consciousness, just thinking when it is thinking we are desiring, o crazy desire

pardon me taiyaki, no intention to scrape at you and your advice, just adding

I'm new to meditation, and everything I've heard about so far seems to revolve around clearing the mind (please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Yes, and contemplation is ultimately supposed to lead us directly to realization of Emptiness, or to keep us away from Cerberus.

Spaceless

Instead of clearing of mind, why not try on non-grasping of the delusion mind. For a start, you may find reactionary, and you ought to relax instaneously on that process of reactionary mind. :nyah:

aMatt

I'm new to meditation, and everything I've heard about so far seems to revolve around clearing the mind (please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Perhaps in your case it would be good to meditate first, then contemplate. Letting the mind settle before bringing the idea into it can be useful to look at the idea freshly. After we meditate for a time, we cultivate a deeper focus and settled vision. It is really in that settled mind that contemplation meditation becomes fruitful, in my opinion.

So at first, perhaps 10-20 minutes of sitting with the intent of settling, then in the same sitting, mindfully explore the idea in question.

SpinyNorman2

Is there a meditative practice that allows for "thinking"? What I mean by that is when you have a decision or event that needs contemplating, would thinking about them while meditating be counterproductive?

Perhaps you could meditate to calm and concentrate the mind, and then use that calmer state of mind to reflect on whatever it is.

Spiny

thickpaper

Hey guys,
Is there a meditative practice that allows for "thinking"? What I mean by that is when you have a decision or event that needs contemplating, would thinking about them while meditating be counterproductive? I'm new to meditation, and everything I've heard about so far seems to revolve around clearing the mind (please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Mindfullness (meditation)is the "super-star" of Dharmic mind training, and rightly so.

But thoughtfullness (Contemplation) is also an essential part, and something that needs to be cultivated. Luckily, it is far easier to become a skilled in Thoughtfulness than in mindfulness.

Whatver the decision you confront, think about it from all angles with the destination realisation being: Will my decision increase or decrease the kindness, happiness, truth, generocity... etc... in the world?

The most obvious and simple answer is generally the kindest and most truthful. Life is simple like that;)

Enjoy!:)

Dazzle

Hey guys,
Is there a meditative practice that allows for "thinking"? What I mean by that is when you have a decision or event that needs contemplating, would thinking about them while meditating be counterproductive? I'm new to meditation, and everything I've heard about so far seems to revolve around clearing the mind (please correct me if I'm wrong!)

In meditation one usually focuses on awareness with breathing or another meditation object. If I notice 'thinking' then I bring my awareness back with the breath again.

Thinking about something in order to make a decision is usually a separate activity for me.

Dazzle

....

kaci

in fact, dhamma-vicaya is one of the seven factors for awakening; it involves the intellect and a refined discernment and analysis of the qualities and dynamics of mind/thought/emotion. i recommend you look into theravada - they emphasize the importance of intellectual development on the path. in particular Phra Payutto (a thai scholar/monk) and Thanissaro bikkhu. the latter has done some fine work and translation of the pali - check out these two books (they are free - a PDF version is also available for download):


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/likefire/index.html


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/wings.html

contemplative skill is only part of the path - it supports wisdom and discernment.

happy thinking!

kaci

i might add that, in my opinion, one of the brilliant things about gotama was his ability to integrate what were previously disparate vedic practices - samkyha (aka. jnana yoga) was one that corresponds to the factor dhamma-vicaya. it was a yoga of the intellect - the idea being that one could attain .. [insert prefered term here] through study and analysis. by itself it tends to be a bit, eh, constrained - but a purely contemplative approach leads easily to delusion. dhamma includes them both, tempered and informed with virtue (ethical practice); all aspects are essential for a true awakening. i can personally vouch for the benefits - i encourage you to investigate for your self.

DhammaDhatu

i believe that is called contemplation.

It is called "reasoned consideration" (yonisomanasikara). Contemplation (anupassana) is to "observe", to "look at", rather than think about.

DhammaDhatu

I'm new to meditation, and everything I've heard about so far seems to revolve around clearing the mind (please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Read here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html

kaci

a direct hit link, beautiful!

dharma

A lot of teachings from the Buddha was added to the Eight Limbs of Yoga and later Vedic Brahmanism or" Hinduism". That's what created a lot of confusion.

AllbuddhaBound

Would not loving kindness be a form of thinking? It involves intention, cognition and focus. But it is also known as a form of meditation.

This topic is extremely important to me because I am working diligently at developing compassion for myself through loving kindness meditation. I need to know if it will result in nothing.

SherabDorje

Would not loving kindness be a form of thinking? It involves intention, cognition and focus. But it is also known as a form of meditation.

This topic is extremely important to me because I am working diligently at developing compassion for myself through loving kindness meditation. I need to know if it will result in nothing.

I think if you are developing loving kindness for yourself by way of doing this exercise you must necessarily take yourself as a mental object, which is a form of thinking. I don't think it will result in nothing. This is a common practice in Buddhism (practicing sending yourself loving kindness) and I think if it resulted in nothing people would have stopped doing it or recommending it.

Just BTW, I do my self-loving kindness meditation by picturing HHDL or another high Tibetan lama I once took refuge with and picturing/hearing one of them saying what needs to be said in that situation and sometimes I even picture them holding or stroking my head. This mental picturing/hearing is a form of thinking, and it has had some good effects so far.

Be well.

Jeffrey

Meditation is not to drive out thinking. That is a misunderstanding. The difference is that you don't take a particular problem and become goal oriented. So you don't hold the context of the problem in the mind. You let the problem come and go. You welcome it and send it off.

The reason for this is that you cannot solve a problem by the same awareness that created it.

I would recommend studying a problem for about 5 minutes prior to meditation. Lay out clearly what the problem is and what resources you have that may help. What information related to the problem do you have. What are your goals.

Then meditate while not trying to recall the problem whatsoever. Just take a break. Enjoy.

When you notice that you are thinking of a problem maybe even a different problem. Just smile to the problem or thought and welcome it. Here it is for now and I will think. If you get lost in the problem and lose awareness of the meditation chances are that you are not even solving constructively rather lost in useless fantasy or fears. Return to the breath and let the mind be as it is. Breath out and relax. Enjoy.