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Question for Experienced Practicioners
Hey everyone,
I have to admit that I was once really, really interested in Buddhism but had since fell out of practice. Recently though, I've been starting to explore it once again because I've been suffering from bipolar and its been getting worse and was thinking about studying it as a supplement with my medication and therapy.
But here's the thing that confused back then and still confuses me now: I can read all these books about the four noble truths and such but in the end I still don't know how to take the first step, if anyone follows me at all...in other words, how do you know when you completely 'get' the four noble truths and are ready to go to the eightfold path? Can you ever truly understand it in your consciousness? How does one achieve this understanding?
Thank you in advance for the replies.
I have to admit that I was once really, really interested in Buddhism but had since fell out of practice. Recently though, I've been starting to explore it once again because I've been suffering from bipolar and its been getting worse and was thinking about studying it as a supplement with my medication and therapy.
But here's the thing that confused back then and still confuses me now: I can read all these books about the four noble truths and such but in the end I still don't know how to take the first step, if anyone follows me at all...in other words, how do you know when you completely 'get' the four noble truths and are ready to go to the eightfold path? Can you ever truly understand it in your consciousness? How does one achieve this understanding?
Thank you in advance for the replies.
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Comments
this is worth watching.
also most of buddhism doesn't make sense until you existentially realize right view.
but watch the video. there are two more afterwards.
a few thoughts - first, the four noble truths are a beautifully complex and multi-layered statement; _completely_ understanding is not needed to begin as there are many useful levels of understanding. coming to realize an understanding of these things is what the eight fold path fosters and it will be an ongoing process, new levels of understanding unfolding as one progresses and becomes more skillful with the mind. that said, most find it useful to begin with a simple understanding - i will give you my own description - use of it what is easy to follow:
1. saccadukkha - the first truth: conflict is part the nature of the world.
sacca = truth (or literally "isness") and dukkha is often translated as suffering, but i prefer a more central meaning of conflict. conflict may result in suffering from a personal standpoint but ultimately dukkha is a much more profound concept. still, at the beginning if "suffering" works for you it is not wrong, but it is just part of the concept. other aspects are: imperfection, stress, pressure, asychrony, discord, disharmony
2. saccadukkhasamudaya - the second truth: how dukkha arises - learning what causes the arising of dukkha (samudaya) is the task for understanding the second truth. for example, if i react strongly and unthinkingly when someone insults me .. voila! dukkha .. emotional distress, possible argument or more, self-recrimination afterwards ... might even get hurt, right? dukkha, for myself and other.
3. saccadukkhanirodha - the third truth: how dukkha is _both_ managed and eliminated (nirodha) - learning how one manages/mediates dukkha such that the "conflict" is resolved is the task for the third truth. in the example above, if the argument had already started (ie. i did not control the anger and burst out at the insult) then i need to know how to skillfully resolve the conflict - _lots_ to learn here; easier is to catch things at the start. i would have done better to notice at the first insult "aha - potential for dukkha here, careful ..", ie. the second truth, and then abandoned my angry response, took a deep breath and calmed myself down.
4. saccadukkhanirodhagaaminii patipaada - the fourth truth: the path or way to learn how to mediate and eventually completely eliminate dukkha. this path is the eight fold path - which, recursively, includes learning the four truths as part of the first step on the path (right view/understanding).
at first, it is probably good to just ponder these and recall them during the day, considering how they may apply to everyday life - this will help to give a context, direction and _reason_ to dive deeper into each of the aspects. each of them can be unpacked with further detail, those details unpacked .. etc. but this study is best pursued with motivating reason from life and/or sincere, open curiosity. not to worry, each person learns at their own pace in their own way - you will find it if you are sincere.
also, don't be afraid to _think_ about these things and dhamma in general - contrary to popular belief reasoning and understanding is an important part of the path and it will help you build confidence in the practice as well as contribute to the development of wisdom.
as a compliment/support factor, it is good to develop a sitting practice to begin learning to calm and focus the mind (another part of the path). at first merely setting aside, oh say 20 min.s to 1/2 hr. once or twice a day and sitting quietly just remembering to listen to the breath is good - _even_ if you don't notice any immediate results or the mind wanders and you realize you only managed to remember listen a little - don't worry, the most important part is that you make a commitment to yourself to stick to the schedual and be disciplined; i promise you - you will be glad that you did
at some point you may also look at some of the other contemplative practices to find one that really suits you as the person you currently are - to get started though the above should work fairly well.
i hope this helps - may you find happiness and peace at heart.
From what I know I think meditation can be very helpful to add to the other treatments of bipolar. You have a lot of changes you are making and the calm acceptance of meditation will be good as you go through it all.
>>>>But here's the thing that confused back then and still confuses me now: I can read all these books about the four noble truths and such but in the end I still don't know how to take the first step, if anyone follows me at all...in other words, how do you know when you completely 'get' the four noble truths
I have thought I have "got" them a few times, only to realise I was wrong. I think I get them now (though i may be wrong again) and the key is seeing how interdependce conditions arisen experience in a reality where all things are empty and impermanent. SO I would say you cant really understand The Four Noble truths of experience without understanding the Thee Foundational marks of existence.
>>>> and are ready to go to the eightfold path?
You are ready! Everyone is ready:) Be kind (in and out), be honest (in and out), be mindfull, be thoughtful....
>>>>Can you ever truly understand it in your consciousness?
yep:) Underdstasnding dharma is pretty easy. Its the practising it, and the skill training, thats hard, so very hard.
>>>How does one achieve this understanding?
By not expecting it to be more than it is?
Keep reading the Dhammapada, that is my advice.
Good luck
Spiny
The eightfold path is the fourTH noble truth. It is based on a correct view which by studying buddhist texts you can get some inspiration: ideas and encouragement. Meditation is a purification process. Part of the noble truths. But it is also a laboratory to examine your experience and deapen your view. From the view you bring that to speach, action, and mind. We learn by doing etc. Right effort involves the practice mandala strengthening it through being truthful, patient, courageous, and enduring. Mindfulness is opening to the situation and recognizing what to do and what not to do.
That is the eightfold path. I think the part to start with you already have. You have the same nature as buddha. He was just a man as well. Women also have that same nature of a mind that is not any one certain way but can learn to follow to embody the four noble truths. You are in the world at a time when the dharma is taught. You have the internet and people can discuss. You have free time. Now the method. The method is the eightfold path.
A different view and insight into right view is the following. These four overcome the hindrances by reflections. Reflection of impermanence overcomes attachment to this life. Reflection of suffering and karma and its result overcomes attachment to pleasure. Attachment to peace is overcome by loving kindness and compassion. Not knowing a method is overcome by refuge and precepts, cultivating bodhicitta, training in aspirational bodhicitta, training in action bodhicitta, the perfection of the 6 paramitas
The aspect of the path that you are on is the accumulation phase. Here you accumulate the things you will need later. I am at this phase too. Next is application, insight, meditation, and then perfection.
Be well.
Metta is a quality of the heart rather than a feeling for an object idea or person. There doesn't need to be anything to have the metta FOR. Its just loving kindness.
You can better understand the Four Noble Truths by using your own experiences. A starting point could be the realization that manic episodes and depression are an experiential expression of the first noble truth: dukkha. As others have said, dukkha can mean unease, stress, suffering, anguish, discord, unsatisfactoriness, etc.
The second noble truth states that is "thirst" (i.e. craving, clinging, attachment, etc.) that causes dukkha. Clinging to the desire of things we find pleasurable, and even clinging to an aversion for things that are not so pleasant. Is the mind during manic and depressive episodes more inclined to clinging and aversion? Fortunately, the third noble truth states that no matter how hopeless you may feel, there is a way out. It is provided in the fourth noble truth: the Noble Eightfold Path. The Eightfold Path is a practice which offers us structure and direction, and brings clarity to our experiences in regards to the Four Noble Truths.
Also, SherabDorje is right. There is no need to rush into anything. Take things one step at a time. Whether dealing with addictions or understanding the Four Noble Truths. The point of practice is cultivation - as it always takes time.
Here's some links you may also find useful:
http://www.healthcentral.com/bipolar/c/15/38687/practical-psychology
http://www.mcmanweb.com/mindfulness1.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_2291023_use-meditation-treat-bipolar-disorder.html
Now for your question. The day you think you completely get the four noble truths or completely comprehend the Dharma is the day you stop learning. Your understanding is going to unfold as you practice. We start out with meditation and mindfulness and the precepts. We might move on to struggling with Emptiness and No-Self and Buddha-Nature. Then maybe the Bodhisattva path and vows beckon. All this takes time, and effort.
I keep a diary of sorts, and the young man whose words I read from many years ago wrote much that I disagree with now. His heart was in the right place, though, and what he did understand became a foundation for where I am today. And if I hang around long enough, I fully expect the person I've become to feel the same way about what I understand today.
If you're somewhat bipolar, work on getting a balance to your mind. It's hard to focus on other things when your mind is taking a rollercoaster ride through your emotions.