How does a bodhisattva *choose* to not be reborn? where as a buddha isnt reborn!

zenmyste

i wanted to know the difference between a buddha and a bodhisattva.
and ive recently read that 'In classical Buddhism, a buddha is an ordinary human being who attains enlightenment and ends the cycle of rebirth - that is, they are not reborn again into a human body.

A bodhisattva is an ordinary human being who also attains enlightenment but then chooses to be reborn over and over, in order to help other humans attain enlightenment. A bodhisattva is said to end the cycle of rebirth *only if* all other beings also end the cycle of rebirth at the same time'

But how does a bodhisattva decide not to be reborn??? i dont fully understand?

person

In Mahayana Buddhism the attainment of buddhahood is a much longer path than nirvana. A bodhisattva renounces liberation, nirvana, arhantship in order to stay in samsara and accumulate the necessary merit and wisdom for full enlightenment. So a person can achieve nirvana and no longer be born but a bodhisattva, through the power of their compassion, decides to continue to be reborn until full enlightenment.

SherabDorje

In Mahayana Buddhism the attainment of buddhahood is a much longer path than nirvana. A bodhisattva renounces liberation, nirvana, arhantship in order to stay in samsara and accumulate the necessary merit and wisdom for full enlightenment. So a person can achieve nirvana and no longer be born but a bodhisattva, through the power of their compassion, decides to continue to be reborn until full enlightenment.

I would just add that in Mahayana the Bodhisattva vow is very often if not always taken with the Refuge Vows.

This may be mixing Theravada and Mahayana, but in the Mahayana if someone does not take the bodhisattva vow the highest level of realization they can reach is that of an arhat, and they just sort of stay there. So it's possible that once the bodhisattva vow is taken, the individual has no choice but to be reborn until the bodhisattva goal is realized. Going against one's bodhisattva vow ("Nah, I decided not to do that after all...") is probably not a good thing, and it would mean being "stuck" as an arhant at the very least.

Jeffrey

Shakyamuni was born into a human body.

aMatt

Remaining partially anchored in samsara is not difficult.

Jeffrey

samsara is a view. the buddhas and bodhisattvas are apparently hear. we can benefit from the nirmanakaya buddhas. we can benefit from the bodhisattvas.

because their view is correct they are not in samsara exactly.

Cinorjer

i wanted to know the difference between a buddha and a bodhisattva.
and ive recently read that 'In classical Buddhism, a buddha is an ordinary human being who attains enlightenment and ends the cycle of rebirth - that is, they are not reborn again into a human body.

A Bodhisattva is an ordinary human being who also attains enlightenment but then chooses to be reborn over and over, in order to help other humans attain enlightenment. A bodhisattva is said to end the cycle of rebirth *only if* all other beings also end the cycle of rebirth at the same time'

But how does a bodhisattva decide not to be reborn??? i dont fully understand?

First, your confusion is from trying to apply different definitions of bodhisattva and even Buddha to the same thing. Also, some statements you read aren't necessarily helpful, because the concept of the Bodhisattva evolved over time. Classic Buddhism defined a bodhisattva as a person on the path of Buddhahood, that's all. If you attained full awakening in this life then you became a Buddha and are not reborn, and if not, then accumulated merit probably meant you would get at least the same chance next life. This is known as classic Buddhism.

Then Buddhism evolved doctrines of merit transference and the concept of a bodhisattva became tangled up with beliefs in heavenly powers and various deities and realms. So you will have iconic figures such as Manjushri, the Bodhisattva of Wisdom, described as someone who deliberately delayed full Buddhahood and has his own realm where he can continue to influence the realm of Samsara. Notice he is not being reborn, but neither is he a full Buddha who has passed beyond the realms completely. This is known as esoteric Buddhism, and some take this literally and some metaphorically.

Only in Lama type Buddhism do we have the belief that a person can choose whether or not to be reborn and in particular, that certain monks have the power to deliberately reincarnate to continue their mission as monks and the temples follow signs and portents to discover the location of the old monk in the new body. This is mystical Buddhism.

For most of us, a Bodhisattva is someone who takes the Bodhisattva vows. It has nothing to do with choosing whether or not to be reborn or refusing to be a Buddha. I'm not refusing anything, because if being a Buddha helps all people, then fine I'll be a Buddha. If my struggling to help all people delays my Buddhahood, then at least I'll have helped some people. And as for choosing to be reborn or not, why would I want to burden an innocent new life with my karma, even if I could? I don't know what will happen to me after death, and neither does anyone else. I'll die.

DharmaField

These are just categories designed by othes to impress the ignorant. If you truly meet the Buddha, you kill the Buddha. If you truly meet a Bodhisattva, you kill the Bodhissatva. There is nothing higher than this very moment, nothing more mysterious and nothing that we can experience that is more fulfilling. Who ever said I am a Buddha, who ever said I am a Bodhisattva?

aMatt

These are just categories designed by othes to impress the ignorant.

I smiled at this, though I don't see it as true.

Imagine the world as a smoker's club. If you quit smoking, you leave the club. Most people don't see how harmful smoking is, are caught in cycles of huffing and puffing, cancer and sickness. The buddha looked for the source of his sickness, found his habit and quit smoking.

A bodhisattva vows to stay a smoker until all are awake to the habit and see the connection to sickness. They don't necessarily smoke habitually, but they do smoke. Then, they are free to stay in the club and help awaken others. Their compassion for others is greater than the need to avoid cancer and sickness... the vow is almost silly because compassion and wisdom direct their every action.

Vincenzi

@aMatt

ideally, a Boddhisattva should be a Buddha too... in your example, a non-smoker.

SherabDorje

I've decided not to be reborn. This is getting old. No more births for me.

Vincenzi

@SherabDorje

are you claiming to be a Buddha? or is this just your intent?

SherabDorje

@SherabDorje

are you claiming to be a Buddha? or is this just your intent?

My intent was simply to be a little bit sarcastic.

seeker242

A Boddhisattva deliberately chooses to be reborn, they don't chose to not be reborn until all beings are saved. I think the only way to really know how is to become a Boddhisattva and find out for yourself.

ThailandTom

I heard the dalai lama say that the arya transcend the human body and physical world all together, yet they eventually get reborn again due to their past karma in previous lives.

somsom

i thought the fully enlightened buddha to be had to be verified by a buddha first. to ensure success. then he had to perfect all the 10 paramis.