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Anyone can become enlightened without Buddhism right?? What do you think of Eckhart Tolle?
Comments
and yes it is definitely supposed to be fun
So kayte, as a former Catholic, how did you relate to eating Jesus' flesh and drinking his blood? Didn't that seem strange to you?
I find it to be an outdated and distasteful carryover from the old rituals that demanded blood sacrifice.
Yeah, that's the conclusion we came to, is that it's a holdover from the days of blood sacrifice. But then one member came up with another explanation, which I find fascinating: it's part of an old Middle Eastern belief that eating a bit of flesh of your spiritual guide links you psychically with him when he's away. I've never heard that before, but I think there's something to it.
His style doest appeal to me, but I feel that on balance he has introduced many people some helpful skills and concepts.
"Awakening in the Now"
"Finding Your Life Purpose"
"Creating A New World: Eckhart Tolle"
And a teaching series: "The Flowering of Human Consciousness"
I am glad that you found the information useful.
Lol!
New as in copied from other old sacred scriptures and such.
Re-worded and served mostly to Americans fast and quick like their food.
I would know, I live in America;)
I'm just saying that we can't possibly know the origins of any of these teachings- they may be much older and have resurfaced with teachers from long ago. And yes, sadly, people will exploit and twist these teachings to suit their own selfish needs. Where do you think cults come from?
Make great points!
Like that book: "Outwitting the Devil: The Secret to Freedom and Success." Napoleon Hill
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1402784538/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1455810169&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1S9RDM2MA31EBNWCA196
But I found it extremely hard/impossible to stay in the present when I was full of guilt, shame and remorse from my past actions; and it's not easy to stay in the present when you're getting chased by bailiffs and debt collectors either.
I do still like his books though.
further, there is no 'NOW' :orange:
The external situations we present in the now is all measured by our actions right now. The supreme conditions woudnt hold anything without thoughts bearing hear right now. Its all good stuff but you need to see it.
What's the other one?
Zenmyste is absolutely correct - and furthermore, for those of you who call yourselves "Old School Buddhists" and new age and Echart Tolle and his like are all full of new age crap. What is the name of the website you are posting on right now???
Could it be newbuddhist.com??
Namaste
There is no such thing as "Buddhist Enlightenment",
There is only Enlightenment, period.
There is no special Christian enlightenment, Muslim enlightenment, Jewish enlightenment, Jainism enlightenment, Bob Hope or Donald Duck enlightenment.
There is only Enlightenment.
I hope this information helps.
Namaste
because he does not claim to be from any religion.
As a result, he has attracted many people who otherwise
would not be interested.
Being on Oprah sure helped.
The things he teaches are consistent with Buddhism.
The problem with "The Power of Now" is that it doesn't teach you how to achieve this great mind state. Telling the reader to simply "be in the present" is pretty useless. Those platitudes have been floating around in the West since the 60s.
PON is inspirational and an intellectual defense of some of the goals of Buddhism. But it does not offer a path. Unfortunately, this is part of its appeal: The book makes deliberate self-transformation seem to be as easy as reading a book.
Unfortunately, for most people, self-transformation is something you have to work on for a long time. And people don't like work...
So even if Tolle is enlightened, he hasn't given us a useful way to follow in his steps. It is important to note that his own transformation was unintentional and based on his very peculiar life circumstances. I would much rather read a book by someone who reached enlightenment through his intention to reach enlightenment and his practices to achieve it.
Of course, the words "work" and "practice" aren't sexy. In fact, neither is "intention", since even that takes some mental energy.
there are two types of people on the path of spirituality.
those who need to do a shit load of work and practice really really hard to get to the point of being here now where there is nothing to do, nowhere to go, just here, just this, no state to achieve.
those who just stop, relax and be.
the "path" is relative based on the conditioning of the person. obviously the more conditioning the longer the path is.
also a person willing to throw it all down, would have a sudden awakening and then gradually have to cultivate such awakening.
tolle's method is to point your awareness back into itself. to free such awareness from the mental objects.
this does not appeal to the conditioned mind of i need to level up to get to here. i need to achieve this to get to here.
you are here. realize this. if you cannot relax and realize this, then keep practicing. this is not to say that there is no purpose to the path, but to some people they can just wake up from hearing his words. such is the nature of a teacher.
How did his transformation come about?
He was on the verge of suicide.
He said ' I cant live with myself'.
Who is I and who is myself?
In his experience, awakening came through
unbearable suffering.
Not thru training and effort.
His teachings reflect that.
Glad to see somebody actually gets it.
Namaste
Fortunately, Tolle is not advocating that we reach "enlightenment" the same way that he reached it (by becoming despondent and suicidal). However, he offers little in the way of method. And what little method he advocates seems to be a very watered down version of various Buddhist practices.
Compare that to a Buddhist teacher (or even the Buddha himself), who advocates the same method of practice that they used to achieve (and sustain) their "enlightenment."
Let me make an analogy. Suppose you wanted to buy a book which would teach you how get nourishment in the wild. There are two choices:
1. A book that was written by someone (like Tolle) who was on the verge of starvation in the wild when he decided to commit suicide by jumping off a cliff. However, before reaching the edge of the cliff, he accidentally stumbled across a field filled with fruits, vegetables and nuts. In his book he writes about how delicious the food he found was and the importance of nutrition. He also speculates on techniques that you might use to find similar food, however, he didn't test these techniques until he came back from the wild to the garden in his backyard.
2. A book that was written by someone (like the Buddha or his followers) who was on the verge of starvation in the wild when he decided to use his powers of observation to study plants and to learn what is nourishing and what does not. Furthermore, through practice and trial and error he learned how to cultivate nourishing fruits, vegetables and nuts. In his book he writes about how good the food was, the importance of nutrition, as well as the principles and practices that he discovered to find and grow food in any type of wilderness. He an his followers have continued to apply these same principles to feed themselves to this day.
Which book is probably more useful?
I've read and enjoyed Tolle. However, he is mostly inspiration and intellectual satisfaction, rather than practice.
I came to this board not from a buddhist background, but through a facination with analytical psychology, and I've come across Tolle in that context.
He is a rare type of person, but not a unique type of person.
He is a Ni-Fe dom. What does that mean? Well, there are different cognitive reflexes we use, in different orders. Why they develop thus, and what all of them are would go beyond the scope of a post, so I will concentrate on Ni, the key component, and his dominant cognitive function, the mode of thought at the driver seat of his mental car, if you will.
Ni, or Introverted Intuition, seeks to create a mental framework of information that is all interconnected. Everything is seen in relationship to everything else. It is a constantly evolving whole, singular framework of data where on tiny change can alter the whole like shifting a kaleidoscope a little, creating a new picture of how the world works. People dominating with introverted intuition are rare. People who couple this with Fe, or extroverted feeling, or empathy, are even rarer. Throughout their life they create a singular framework based on the empathic information they take in and prioritize.
Suspected Ni-Fe doms were Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Carl Jung, Tolle, Ghandi, ... and on the Shadow side, the famous Hitler.
Jesus and Buddha are also suspected to be infjs, but... I don't know about that. Maybe they started out like that, but I tend to think of both of them along the lines of XXXX. Meaning, perfect balance between all cognitive functions. That's the kind of enlightenment that I am striving for, myself.
Introverted, Intuitive, Feeler, Judger.
http://typelogic.com/infj.html
For Ni and Fe working together in a dominant position in that order seriously pump up empathic perception into ... very disturbing dimensions. I think of it as inverse autism. One is bombarded with emotional cues and emotional states. The suffering of others becomes indistinguishable from one owns suffering, and helping others is, in a sense, a selfish venture to end ones own suffering. For the maturing INFJ, anyways. At least for me, this was not a good road to venture on. One with very, very hard lessons.
Alright, so far, so good. As an infj myself, from that perspective, I can understand what kind of enlightenment Tolle may have reached. This internal framework, and this is important, is constantly driven towards a solution, towards oneness. All information, all perspectives, all experiences, all data, all feelings, they are all put inside the same evolving interconnected mental framework, constantly seeking to harmonize all experiences into one singular, final, all encompassing big picture that can consistently survive the test against reality.
The introverted intuition is key, here. Since emotions are always fuzzy to describe, let me talk about the infjs cousin, the Ni-Te dom. Te, extroverted Thinking. My intj cousins are (nearly?) completely devoid of empathy, because once again, the Ni-Te dynamic drives the internal system building into disturbing dimensions on the other end of the feeling spectrum. You'll find a very high percentage of people suffering from Aspergers or even autism to be intjs. Ni-Tes create an internal framework of information, seeking understanding, deeper and deeper, within the information they prioritize. The concrete, the rational, the logical, the factual. These are the Einsteins and Hawkings of our society. Their drive towards oneness in their framework, their solutions, are of practical value and can grow the knowledge base of our society.
I think it's easier to imagine this kind of mind, and then imagine a Einstein who concentrated not on the logical observations that can be made about the universe, but those that can be made on the human condition.
Ni is inherently hard to describe. Here is someone elses description:
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/introverted+intuition+(ni)