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Which of the 5 Buddhist precepts do you usually break?
Talisman, I've meditated and thought of this: I think maybe becoming a buddhist was a goal that helped you give up drinking? For me it didn't work that way. I had to be buddhist for a long time before I developed the peace needed. By calling myself a buddhist it gave me inspiration to meditate and study. I did that in the here and now (then). The end result for me also was to give up drinking. I am just fearful for somebody who thinks they are phony for calling themselves buddhist and then never tries. Do you understand?
One doesn't have to give up drinking to consider themself a Buddhist. If one finds refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha then one is a Buddhist. Through practice and study, the other factors of the path will develop.
Well, I don't lie, but I do sometimes allow my mother to believe her own version of the truth, but to be fair I highly doubt she would believe me if I tried to explain the whole truth to her.
I do drink, but I set up way to ensure that I cannot harm others while I am drinking. I know my limits and don't drink so much I lie or cheat or steal, and I make sure I know how and when I am going home, or drink at home. Its not ideal but I am not ready to completely go sober (I drink around once a month maybe).
I only have sex with my partner, but we aren't trying for a baby right now, so some strict followers may feel that is unnecessary sex, however I feel it is a way of showing affection, trust and passion, all of which are positive in my books
I actually don't lie that often... I have learned to keep my mouth shut. It's not that I'm telling a lie when somebody asks me difficult questions but somehow I just seem to tell the truth. And if I can't tell the truth because I promised I tell them that I can't tell them because I promised.
I really have a problem with the drinking precept. Drinking over here is as normal as drinking a water. It is really really really difficult for me to quit drinking. I have drunk myself into destruction before, and now I watch out, I drink but I don't want to overdo it. I feel like I wasted the best part of my life already to drinking. I once woke up from a bad hangover feeling like I've became the dumbest person in history, and I still feel like that.
And I do get more relaxed after 3 beers or so, but that just isn't the way it goes around here. I hate myself for drinking so much, and I'm the only one to blame for it. And every weekend I go out and drink...
Not much problems with the other precepts, except the sex thing but I consider that for lay people, I'm just still an ordinary young boy...
/edit: and I wrote this text while being quite drunk. *sigh* big changes are coming up for me real soon. Can't handle this lifestyle anymore
It sounds like some second thoughts about drinking. I found that drinking did provide some amount of joy but that the source of the joy wasn't the drinking really. When I have non-alcoholic beer now it is kind of compulsive nervous habit sometimes but also when I am really stressed it can be a relief to have a cold one, a non-alcoholic beer.
No you are not the dumbest person in the world but you might have made a choice about drinking and I hope that you can keep thinking about what you want and not feel trapped as if you have no choice. Meditation even on the spot just noticing for 5 or 10 minutes a craving can help. Becoming mindful of the relaxation, the hangover, and the regret (seeing dumb) is also already happening it sounds like to me.
@footiam I would guess so, since it is a gradual process and being 'tipsy' could be just as damaging to others as being blind drunk... For me drinking is also a way of getting in touch with my confidence, which means I get a better idea of how things will feel when I finally have confidence sober. Its not good according to the precepts, but I feel like I am getting a glimpse of how I will be able to enjoy socialising when I am confident, which is something I am really working on!
I think in your own ways, both Federica and Dhamma Datu are correct.
The problem I have with the 8 Precepts is that I don't believe in all of them: 6. I undertake to abstain from eating at the wrong time (the right time is after sunrise, before noon). I have yet to see why this has any significance. I undertake to abstain from singing, dancing, playing music, attending entertainment performances, wearing perfume, and using cosmetics and garlands (decorative accessories). I think this is foolish. I undertake to abstain from luxurious places for sitting or sleeping, and overindulging in sleep. I think this is foolish and ill defined.
To each his own, of course.
I don't understand why one should not sing, dance etc but I do think it is not for the common man but more for someone who is seeking something more. It is just like there are different meditation objects for different people.
Having sex is not breaking any precept unless your trying to become a monastic.
As for the rest of the precepts. Everyone can do as they wish, just don't complain when unpleasant consequences happen to you.
Well, the first 5 Precepts are for lay people, and one is "I undertake the training rule to abstain from sexual misconduct". So then one must define sexual misconduct.
really? I tought it was something more like a muscle relaxer, anesthesic and depressor of the brain with some side-effects if not used with moderation.
The effect should be different for different people.
My teacher said yeserday that when monks close to enlightenment they only eat seven seeds a day! Wow! So drink alcohol as much as you like but that means you are nowhere near to enlightenment.
She explained in her opinion: When you are close to the elightenment you are in your light body but your mind constantly drops to this lower conscious physical body due to the attachments. Thats why it is a must to have No sex, no alcohol, no eating for pleasure, only seven seeds....Only hard core Buddhist will become enlightened...you can get awake but thats different.
Its really upto you. The more you progress, the more you have to let go all worldly pleasures...and the more you let go, the closer you are to enlightenment.
Eating just seven seeds - wow! As for nirvana, I wonder if there is any sutra to say how it should be.
I drink, I make love often, I used to do drugs. I don't see why drinking is so bad as long as you keep it under control and not the other way around. I won't begrudge people that don't drink. But just because I like to go to the bar with some friends or I drink a glass or two of whiskey after a rough day I don't think it is right for me to be looked down upon. Not my fault you feel so high and mighty and can't hold your liquor.
Why would anyone break any of the precepts? There's only 5 of them, it's not that difficult to keep them. I think the kind of person who's attracted to Buddhism is the kind of person who already tends toward compassion and away from vices.
Yes, just five and so difficult to keep! Maybe,that's because each can manifest in many forms.
I came from a strict religion that believed that any alcohol is a no-no. Some people would even avoid medicine and vanilla extract! So this one is pretty simple for me. Besides for me, Dharma books>booze when it comes to shopping! I actually think this is a grey area, but I do struggle with being completely honest about certain topics with my family. I guess this is the "lie of omission."
Well, I don't lie, but I do sometimes allow my mother to believe her own version of the truth, but to be fair I highly doubt she would believe me if I tried to explain the whole truth to her.
Allowing your mother to believe her own version of the truth should ot be lying, I suppose. We can't help it if people have dust on their eyes or colour tinted glasses!
Yes I break the second precept often and willingly... I download media. But I have an issue with that being stealing. Stealing is defined as taking something from someone so as to deprive them of it. Torrent movies might fall into that category if I was depriving the owner (the movie studio) of earned revenue because I would then not go see the film in a theatre or buy the DVD. In my case, I only download movies that I have no chance of ever seeing in a theatre, and would never consider purchasing the DVD. Therefore even if I never downloaded the movie, the studio would never see revenue from me, so therefore no loss to them. I suppose it could be considered copyright infringement, but that could be construed as someone using the material for monetary benefit, usually non monetary doesn't apply. I have struggled with this, but as the original owner hasn't actually lost anything, the person who is sharing it with me gave me permission to have it (and for all I know he may have purchased it, so is a legitimate owner) and I am not exploiting it for monetary gain, I consider this not stealing, but I'm open to other views.
One doesn't have to give up drinking to consider themself a Buddhist. If one finds refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha then one is a Buddhist. Through practice and study, the other factors of the path will develop.
One can also break all the precepts and calls himself a Buddhist.
I'm new to Buddhism and I am vegan (I don't kill anything directly, nor indirectly although I might unintentionally ie. stepping on a bug) but I was vegan before I followed Buddha, I'm already minimalist, I tell white lies but with best intentions.. not sure if that's actually okay, I don't drink alcohol or do any drugs nor drink coffee but I drink tea, I'm married and we have sex but he's my one and only sexual partner, I don't steal intentionally but I might walk away from work with a pen on occasion (and upon noticing, intend to bring it back - which may not happen).
I've always been fairly moral though. I'm disappointed in a lot of the comments I've read here. I was interested in reading what people confessed to, not this. But I'm new to Buddhism, and still unsure if bring curious of such stuff is even right minded to begin with.
Buddhists are not perfect. We're just people. Most of us try our best to follow the path, but even the best of us will sometimes stray. We're just human after all. Don't be disappointed to find that out. The key is to be mindful. That doesn't mean you'll never say an angry word. It doesn't mean you'll never eat chicken again (perhaps). It just means that you're making an effort to cultivate mindfulness of everything you do, think, and say.
BTW, walking out of the office with a pen or stepping on a bug you didn't see is not evil. It's the intention behind an action that counts. If you set out to steal the pen, or you set out to squash the bug, then that's malicious intent. That generates negative kamma (karma). Unintentional acts such as those do not. We try our best. "White lies" are another whole subject (that has also been discussed here). Basically, we should strive to always use "right speech" (part of the Noble Eightfold Path), which doesn't include lying. But there are no absolutes.
Coffee and tea are perfectly fine. They don't cloud your mind (they may rev it up, but they don't cloud it as alcohol or drugs do). Lots of Buddhists have sex. If they didn't Buddhism would die away!
Speach! Grr, I break this one all the time. I once paid a friend 1/2 Kuwaiti Dinar (about $1.75) for every bad word. I ended up paying him 35 dollars, that was just while in the office one day. I need to learn to watch my mouth. Sometimes I feel my point is not made without a good explative eeek.
By bad word, I wonder if you mean the four letter word. That should not be as bad as malicious gossip. Even then, I think if you want to stop a bad habit, you don't haveto use money at all.
Yes I break the second precept often and willingly... I download media. But I have an issue with that being stealing. Stealing is defined as taking something from someone so as to deprive them of it. Torrent movies might fall into that category if I was depriving the owner (the movie studio) of earned revenue because I would then not go see the film in a theatre or buy the DVD. In my case, I only download movies that I have no chance of ever seeing in a theatre, and would never consider purchasing the DVD. Therefore even if I never downloaded the movie, the studio would never see revenue from me, so therefore no loss to them. I suppose it could be considered copyright infringement, but that could be construed as someone using the material for monetary benefit, usually non monetary doesn't apply. I have struggled with this, but as the original owner hasn't actually lost anything, the person who is sharing it with me gave me permission to have it (and for all I know he may have purchased it, so is a legitimate owner) and I am not exploiting it for monetary gain, I consider this not stealing, but I'm open to other views.
It's probably stealing when you need to defend it...
I really have a problem with the drinking precept. Drinking over here is as normal as drinking a water. It is really really really difficult for me to quit drinking. I have drunk myself into destruction before, and now I watch out, I drink but I don't want to overdo it. I feel like I wasted the best part of my life already to drinking. I once woke up from a bad hangover feeling like I've became the dumbest person in history, and I still feel like that.
It is the environment then which makes us break the precepts!
Once a young monk, after living in the temple for some years, asked for an audience with the old Master.
"Master," the monk said, "You gave me a list of ten vows when I first joined the temple, and told me keeping the vows was my practice. Nine of the ten vows I have no problem with. But, I can't stop thinking about women. All day and all night, my blood boils. Even the mellons in the garden got me flustered this morning, and in order not to be embarassed I had to...you know."
The monk hung his head in shame. "I have failed in my practice. I can only obey nine of the vows, no matter how hard I try."
The Master looked at the monk in astonishment. "You've managed to keep nine of the vows? Why, I can never keep more than six of them for a single day! You should be teaching me."
@footiam For me drinking is also a way of getting in touch with my confidence, which means I get a better idea of how things will feel when I finally have confidence sober. Its not good according to the precepts, but I feel like I am getting a glimpse of how I will be able to enjoy socialising when I am confident, which is something I am really working on!
I think you can still be confident without drinking. You just must have the right thought.
I would have to disagree with people who said it's okay to drink as long as it's under "control." If you truly had it under control, you would not be drinking.
@footiam I would guess so, since it is a gradual process and being 'tipsy' could be just as damaging to others as being blind drunk... For me drinking is also a way of getting in touch with my confidence, which means I get a better idea of how things will feel when I finally have confidence sober. Its not good according to the precepts, but I feel like I am getting a glimpse of how I will be able to enjoy socialising when I am confident, which is something I am really working on!
I would think that the confidence that a person has after drinking is not real confidence. In that case too, a person would have to drink all the time.
I would have to disagree with people who said it's okay to drink as long as it's under "control." If you truly had it under control, you would not be drinking.
I break my promises sometimes and lie to my ex by telling her that she looks good when she looks opposite to what I said. I drink occasionally, by sharing libation in sacred space. I killed a bug last week. I used my sister's computer without even asking for her permission. I am A-Sexual, so, I'm not sure if this counts, but, if it does then I am guilty of that too. So, in my life the five precepts are broken equally at different times in totality.
I am guilty with the torrenting thing, but I'm working to break that habit. I also very rarely have a decent beer because I like the taste. I have no interest in the alcoholic effects whatsoever and rarely notice even the slightest affect on my awareness. This kind of annoys me that even a single drink is considered breaking the precept because it tastes good and there aren't any good non-alcoholic beers. I mean, i think it's been about 3 months since I've had a single drink, so it's not exactly a habit.
Anyway, the purpose of the precepts is not about 'following rules', but rather to create conditions that are conducive to insight and awakening. The precepts are to refrain from unskillful, adhammic activities. This is not a good v. bad situation, but a what will bring about the end of suffering situation. How serious are you? Now, I still fudge the precepts and I realize this reflects a lack of seriousness about my situation. I am working to improve here, even though I've never formally taken the five precepts. Perhaps someday I'll really hunker down and do it though. Until then, I will use them as guidelines and suffer the consequences when I fail to follow them.
not1not2 there are a few non-alcoholic beers you might try. Becks is decent. Clausthaller is good. Kaliber is made by guiness. Theres even a NA wheat beer though I forget the name.
I'm not saying this to nitpick you just giving a heads up on a way to have a few brews and stay totally clear.
It sounds like some second thoughts about drinking. I found that drinking did provide some amount of joy but that the source of the joy wasn't the drinking really. When I have non-alcoholic beer now it is kind of compulsive nervous habit sometimes but also when I am really stressed it can be a relief to have a cold one, a non-alcoholic beer.
Comments
I do drink, but I set up way to ensure that I cannot harm others while I am drinking. I know my limits and don't drink so much I lie or cheat or steal, and I make sure I know how and when I am going home, or drink at home. Its not ideal but I am not ready to completely go sober (I drink around once a month maybe).
I only have sex with my partner, but we aren't trying for a baby right now, so some strict followers may feel that is unnecessary sex, however I feel it is a way of showing affection, trust and passion, all of which are positive in my books
I really have a problem with the drinking precept.
And I do get more relaxed after 3 beers or so, but that just isn't the way it goes around here. I hate myself for drinking so much, and I'm the only one to blame for it.
Not much problems with the other precepts, except the sex thing
/edit: and I wrote this text while being quite drunk. *sigh*
No you are not the dumbest person in the world but you might have made a choice about drinking and I hope that you can keep thinking about what you want and not feel trapped as if you have no choice. Meditation even on the spot just noticing for 5 or 10 minutes a craving can help. Becoming mindful of the relaxation, the hangover, and the regret (seeing dumb) is also already happening it sounds like to me.
As for the rest of the precepts. Everyone can do as they wish, just don't complain when unpleasant consequences happen to you.
If it is about having sex, nobody would be complaining!
I actually think this is a grey area, but I do struggle with being completely honest about certain topics with my family. I guess this is the "lie of omission."
Just like sitting in a garage doesn't make me a car, calling myself a Buddhist doesn't make me a Buddhist.
I've always been fairly moral though. I'm disappointed in a lot of the comments I've read here. I was interested in reading what people confessed to, not this.
But I'm new to Buddhism, and still unsure if bring curious of such stuff is even right minded to begin with.
BTW, walking out of the office with a pen or stepping on a bug you didn't see is not evil. It's the intention behind an action that counts. If you set out to steal the pen, or you set out to squash the bug, then that's malicious intent. That generates negative kamma (karma). Unintentional acts such as those do not. We try our best. "White lies" are another whole subject (that has also been discussed here). Basically, we should strive to always use "right speech" (part of the Noble Eightfold Path), which doesn't include lying. But there are no absolutes.
Coffee and tea are perfectly fine. They don't cloud your mind (they may rev it up, but they don't cloud it as alcohol or drugs do). Lots of Buddhists have sex. If they didn't Buddhism would die away!
Once a young monk, after living in the temple for some years, asked for an audience with the old Master.
"Master," the monk said, "You gave me a list of ten vows when I first joined the temple, and told me keeping the vows was my practice. Nine of the ten vows I have no problem with. But, I can't stop thinking about women. All day and all night, my blood boils. Even the mellons in the garden got me flustered this morning, and in order not to be embarassed I had to...you know."
The monk hung his head in shame. "I have failed in my practice. I can only obey nine of the vows, no matter how hard I try."
The Master looked at the monk in astonishment. "You've managed to keep nine of the vows? Why, I can never keep more than six of them for a single day! You should be teaching me."
Anyway, the purpose of the precepts is not about 'following rules', but rather to create conditions that are conducive to insight and awakening. The precepts are to refrain from unskillful, adhammic activities. This is not a good v. bad situation, but a what will bring about the end of suffering situation. How serious are you? Now, I still fudge the precepts and I realize this reflects a lack of seriousness about my situation. I am working to improve here, even though I've never formally taken the five precepts. Perhaps someday I'll really hunker down and do it though. Until then, I will use them as guidelines and suffer the consequences when I fail to follow them.
I'm not saying this to nitpick you just giving a heads up on a way to have a few brews and stay totally clear.