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Which of the 5 Buddhist precepts do you usually break?
I have taken the 10 Zen precepts so far. They are as follows. there are different versions which use different words, but they all mean the same thing. The first 5 are the same as any other, but the 2nd 5 are unique to zen.
The Ten Grave Precepts
Not to intentionally or maliciously kill, but to cherish all life. Not to steal, but to respect the possessions and lifetime of others. Not to misuse sexual energy, but to be honest and respectful in mind and action. Not to intentionally deceive, but to speak the truth. Not to misuse drugs or alcohol, but to keep the mind clear. Not to speak of others’ faults, but to be understanding and sympathetic. Not to praise oneself by criticizing others, but to overcome one’s own shortcomings. Not to withhold spiritual or material aid, but to give it freely when needed. Not to give vent to anger, but to seek its source. Not to speak ill of the Three Treasures, but to cherish and uphold them.
its spiritual in that we can let go a bit, but its a fake letting go.. having control of letting go is better like you say; awareness as opposed to drug.
Drinking is for sedating your mind from a exterior source. Since the practice is for balancing your mind from within. Any exterior "drugs" will not help the way. It all depends how deep you want to practice.
If you don't drink at all, you actually elimenate any need to explain yourself.
really? I tought it was something more like a muscle relaxer, anesthesic and depressor of the brain with some side-effects if not used with moderation.
There is some amount of holier than thou. If you think about it. Thats to be expected, and is pretty unavoidable. If your going to drink drink and if not don't. No need for heaping judgements. The precepts aren't for validating the ego. They are for clearing drama out of the life. Drinking affects the nervous system and mind. Try meditating after a drink.
My teacher said yeserday that when monks close to enlightenment they only eat seven seeds a day! Wow! So drink alcohol as much as you like but that means you are nowhere near to enlightenment.
She explained in her opinion: When you are close to the elightenment you are in your light body but your mind constantly drops to this lower conscious physical body due to the attachments. Thats why it is a must to have No sex, no alcohol, no eating for pleasure, only seven seeds....Only hard core Buddhist will become enlightened...you can get awake but thats different.
Its really upto you. The more you progress, the more you have to let go all worldly pleasures...and the more you let go, the closer you are to enlightenment.
the middle way doesn't mean that you should not be mindful about whether something is helpful or harmful.. in fact its the very opposite. Being mindful of help/harm IS the middle way.
"Good question, good question, according to Mark and Engels the whole consept of Zen Budhism was to break free of the intellect, while most modern buddhist schoolars today have taken to Knopflers school of tought, the marxist principle that the dharma is not only for the poor and feeble minded, but also for the intellectual elite and the upper class of society.This caused in the eight century a further expanding of the holy Tipitaka, expanding the docrine from its single page consisting of simple rules like "Be good. Do right." to the infamouse 1200 pages outlining the doctrine of cause and effect instead of the old simple text of "sht happens. What comes around goes around. And, what happened in Rome, stays in Rome!".
There are these two extremes that are not to be indulged in by one who has gone forth. Which two? That which is devoted to sensual pleasure with reference to sensual objects: base, vulgar, common, ignoble, unprofitable; and that which is devoted to self-affliction: painful, ignoble, unprofitable. Avoiding both of these extremes, the middle way realized by the Tathagata — producing vision, producing knowledge — leads to calm, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, to Unbinding. (Samyutta Nikaya 56.11)
how do you talk about a middle path for three evils: attachment hate and ignorance... is there such thing as moderate killing...
you transform the potential or energy of attachment, hatred, and ignorance. first you get rid of "ignore" - ance since they all stem from ignorance. we wise up and start transforming that energy into positive compassion.
you transform the potential or energy of attachment, hatred, and ignorance. first you get rid of "ignore" - ance since they all stem from ignorance. we wise up and start transforming that energy into positive compassion.
true...and eventually all three evil has to go...and that was exactly my point in my earlier post, which is "no attachments"...
I cannot get enlightened when moderately having sex, moderately drinking, moderately hating people etc...eventually all has to go if enlightenment is the ultimate goal...moderate doesn't necessarily mean the middle path...
Why would anyone break any of the precepts? There's only 5 of them, it's not that difficult to keep them. I think the kind of person who's attracted to Buddhism is the kind of person who already tends toward compassion and away from vices.
There is some amount of holier than thou. If you think about it. Thats to be expected, and is pretty unavoidable. If your going to drink drink and if not don't. No need for heaping judgements. The precepts aren't for validating the ego. They are for clearing drama out of the life. Drinking affects the nervous system and mind. Try meditating after a drink.
I have meditated inmediatly after a couple of drinks... it was a nice and interesting experience
My teacher said yeserday that when monks close to enlightenment they only eat seven seeds a day! Wow! So drink alcohol as much as you like but that means you are nowhere near to enlightenment.
She explained in her opinion: When you are close to the elightenment you are in your light body but your mind constantly drops to this lower conscious physical body due to the attachments. Thats why it is a must to have No sex, no alcohol, no eating for pleasure, only seven seeds....Only hard core Buddhist will become enlightened...you can get awake but thats different.
Its really upto you. The more you progress, the more you have to let go all worldly pleasures...and the more you let go, the closer you are to enlightenment.
buddha means awakened one, there's no enlightenment in buddhism.
buddha means awakened one, there's no enlightenment in buddhism.
:thumbdown:
[sarcasm] insightful [/sarcasm]
it was a mention to a very simple misunderstanding... in yout post.
Awakening vs. Enlightenment A clear distinction should be made between awakening to the Way (Great Awakening) and attaining the Way (attaining Enlightenment). (Note: There are many degrees of Awakening and Enlightenment. Attaining the Enlightenment of the Arhats, Pratyeka Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, etc. is different from attaining Supreme Enlightenment, i.e., Buddhahood.)
To experience a Great Awakening is to achieve (through Zen meditation, Buddha Recitation, etc.) a complete and deep realization of what it means to be a Buddha and how to reach Buddhahood. It is to see one's Nature, comprehend the True Nature of things, the Truth. However, only after becoming a Buddha can one be said to have truly attained Supreme Enlightenment (attained the Way). A metaphor appearing in the sutras is that of a glass of water containing sediments. As long as the glass is undisturbed, the sediments remain at the bottom and the water is clear. However, as soon as the glass is shaken, the water becomes turbid. Likewise, when a practitioner experiences a Great Awakening (awakens to the Way), his afflictions (greed, anger and delusion) are temporarily suppressed but not yet eliminated. To achieve Supreme Enlightenment (i.e., to be rid of all afflictions, to discard all sediments) is the ultimate goal. Only then can he completely trust his mind and actions. Before then, he should adhere to the precepts, keep a close watch on his mind and thoughts, like a cat stalking a mouse, ready to pounce on evil thoughts as soon as they arise. To do otherwise is to court certain failure, as stories upon stories of errant monks, roshis and gurus demonstrate.
I just want to say if you go to the International Buddhist Temple and take vows the vows are labeled as the five precepts and the one about speech is fourfold: telling lies, gossip/slander, idle chatter, harmful speech
awareness is not a matter of evacuating who.. at least not intellectually.. if you ask who is enlightened you would have to say that there is no attainment,, abiding by prajna
Like it said in the article I posted, you only realize how to be a enlightened when you are awaken...but you are not enlightened yet. You have to renounance all worldly afflictions and attain your light body to become enlightened... guess this is when vajrayana practice becomes necessary...I am going more into that direction.
i disagree. enlightenment is the ability to see clearly into what is and from that embodying knowing through natural compassionate action.
lets talk about an attainable enlightenment. you don't need a light body. you don't need to look like brad pitt and sparkle like a god.
all you need is to see clearly into what is.
This is my opinion: you only see clearly when you are in meditation. Then you loose it. And in this physical body, you pretty much secure and safe with your surroundings. When your mind leaves your body, you will be freaked out. All clarity that you realize during your meditation may not help you to save you from samsara... There are a lot more poisons that your subconscious has to get rid of and meditation realizations won't clear your subconsciousness totally. You are still afraid, you still have afflictions, you still have greed etc. etc. You are not pure yet. You only seen how to be pure..
depends what you mean by seeing clearly.. if it is something that is gained or lost
if clarity can be gained or lost then it is not a refuge and is stamped by dukkha one of the three marks of conditional phenomena
true, you need to test yourself whether you really gained it or not... Thats why I always ask, have you seen your worst enemy yet? If you haven't then you wouldn't know how you will react in that situation. And as far as I know, when you go vajrana practice, you face with your deepest fears and desires...and you learn to save yourself. And then you are free from samsara... But ofcourse that doesn't mean that everyone needs vajrayana, maybe you really saved or will save yourself from your fears, desires, and conceptualizations without vajrayana.
the 'middle way' the buddha spoke about did not include indulgence in sensuality/sexuality
Bhikkhus, these two extremes ought not to be cultivated by one gone forth from the house-life. What are the two? There is devotion to indulgence of pleasure in the objects of sensual desire; and there is devotion to self-torment.
The middle way discovered by a Perfect One avoids both these extremes; it gives vision, it gives knowledge and it leads to peace, to direct acquaintance, to discovery, to nibbana.
And what is that middle way? It is simply the noble eightfold path, that is to say, right view, right intention; right speech, right action, right livelihood; right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.
Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta: Setting Rolling the Wheel of Truth
drinking only occurs when there is a drink and a drinker. you also need a mind to project drink and drinker. take one out of the equation and then it's impossible. nothing comes before or after. all arises at the same time.
Comments
The Ten Grave Precepts
Not to intentionally or maliciously kill, but to cherish all life.
Not to steal, but to respect the possessions and lifetime of others.
Not to misuse sexual energy, but to be honest and respectful in mind and action.
Not to intentionally deceive, but to speak the truth.
Not to misuse drugs or alcohol, but to keep the mind clear.
Not to speak of others’ faults, but to be understanding and sympathetic.
Not to praise oneself by criticizing others, but to overcome one’s own shortcomings.
Not to withhold spiritual or material aid, but to give it freely when needed.
Not to give vent to anger, but to seek its source.
Not to speak ill of the Three Treasures, but to cherish and uphold them.
If you don't drink at all, you actually elimenate any need to explain yourself.
There was a great deal of alcoholism in my family, and none of it for medicinal purposes.
Heedlessness begins at the first drink.
My teacher said yeserday that when monks close to enlightenment they only eat seven seeds a day! Wow!
So drink alcohol as much as you like but that means you are nowhere near to enlightenment.
She explained in her opinion: When you are close to the elightenment you are in your light body but your mind constantly drops to this lower conscious physical body due to the attachments. Thats why it is a must to have No sex, no alcohol, no eating for pleasure, only seven seeds....Only hard core Buddhist will become enlightened...you can get awake but thats different.
Its really upto you. The more you progress, the more you have to let go all worldly pleasures...and the more you let go, the closer you are to enlightenment.
that was the story right?
balance is in the eye of the beholder.
eating 7 seeds a day seems a bit crazy to me. it's okay to eat a meal, you're going to be okay.
~random forum guy 'nibble'
(Samyutta Nikaya 56.11)
how do you talk about a middle path for three evils: attachment hate and ignorance...
is there such thing as moderate killing...
first you get rid of "ignore" - ance since they all stem from ignorance.
we wise up and start transforming that energy into positive compassion.
I cannot get enlightened when moderately having sex, moderately drinking, moderately hating people etc...eventually all has to go if enlightenment is the ultimate goal...moderate doesn't necessarily mean the middle path...
:thumbdown:
it was a mention to a very simple misunderstanding... in yout post.
A clear distinction should be made between awakening to the Way (Great Awakening) and attaining the Way (attaining Enlightenment). (Note: There are many degrees of Awakening and Enlightenment. Attaining the Enlightenment of the Arhats, Pratyeka Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, etc. is different from attaining Supreme Enlightenment, i.e., Buddhahood.)
To experience a Great Awakening is to achieve (through Zen meditation, Buddha Recitation, etc.) a complete and deep realization of what it means to be a Buddha and how to reach Buddhahood. It is to see one's Nature, comprehend the True Nature of things, the Truth. However, only after becoming a Buddha can one be said to have truly attained Supreme Enlightenment (attained the Way). A metaphor appearing in the sutras is that of a glass of water containing sediments. As long as the glass is undisturbed, the sediments remain at the bottom and the water is clear. However, as soon as the glass is shaken, the water becomes turbid. Likewise, when a practitioner experiences a Great Awakening (awakens to the Way), his afflictions (greed, anger and delusion) are temporarily suppressed but not yet eliminated. To achieve Supreme Enlightenment (i.e., to be rid of all afflictions, to discard all sediments) is the ultimate goal. Only then can he completely trust his mind and actions. Before then, he should adhere to the precepts, keep a close watch on his mind and thoughts, like a cat stalking a mouse, ready to pounce on evil thoughts as soon as they arise. To do otherwise is to court certain failure, as stories upon stories of errant monks, roshis and gurus demonstrate.
making a conceptual distinction between awakenening and attaining enlightenment is a westernization that I have not read about before.
words
one hand clapping receives no resistance
at least not intellectually..
if you ask who is enlightened you would have to say that there is no attainment,, abiding by prajna
lets talk about an attainable enlightenment. you don't need a light body. you don't need to look like brad pitt and sparkle like a god.
all you need is to see clearly into what is.
you only see clearly when you are in meditation. Then you loose it. And in this physical body, you pretty much secure and safe with your surroundings. When your mind leaves your body, you will be freaked out. All clarity that you realize during your meditation may not help you to save you from samsara... There are a lot more poisons that your subconscious has to get rid of and meditation realizations won't clear your subconsciousness totally. You are still afraid, you still have afflictions, you still have greed etc. etc. You are not pure yet. You only seen how to be pure..
if clarity can be gained or lost then it is not a refuge and is stamped by dukkha one of the three marks of conditional phenomena
penetrate deeply into what is and totally accept all of yourself.
there is nothing to get rid of. that is your thinking trying to get rid of something.
just accept yourself. just accept your demons. just accept the beauty.
the buddha mind is always clear even if it appears to be dirty. follow the dirt and then see where it leads.
Thats why I always ask, have you seen your worst enemy yet?
If you haven't then you wouldn't know how you will react in that situation.
And as far as I know, when you go vajrana practice, you face with your deepest fears and desires...and you learn to save yourself. And then you are free from samsara...
But ofcourse that doesn't mean that everyone needs vajrayana, maybe you really saved or will save yourself from your fears, desires, and conceptualizations without vajrayana.
then mountains were mountains.
take one out of the equation and then it's impossible. nothing comes before or after. all arises at the same time.
keep drinking that mountain dew and coolaid.