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Confused.- Addiction
Xrayman
Veteran
Just want to start another thread.
How does one know when one is addicted to something? and secondly, how do you know when it is a "Problem"?
Please discuss, and send your replies back-I'm actually really interested in hearing your answers.
0
Comments
It can include anything as apparently normal as computer games, as apparently beneficial as exercise, as extreme and bizarre as plastic surgery, or even something as apparently wonderful as love.....
To my mind, anything you have a tendency to think about, (voluntarily or otherwise) when you're not doing it, could be considered an addiction.. whether it be mild (in which case, some would dismiss it, and insist it's nothing of the kind) or or quite agressive... ie, you end up driving everybody mad with it....it becomes obsessive....
If it occupies your thought process to the exclusion of Right Concentration... something has you hooked.....
And you know it's a problem when someone says to you -
..."What, again?"
What do you thinK?
okay, thanks for that Federica-I tend to agree.
(I won't tell you what my addiction is)...
Alright, it's an addiction to not wanting to tell others about my addictions.
I believe that the first step is admitting you have a problem-well that's step one out of the way.
My definition is when the thought of doing without something fills you with panic, dread, immense sadness. Or when you DO try to do without it and find that you can't.
How is drug addiction defined
Years ago when I had the misfortune to take care of alcoholics at Oak Knoll Naval Hospital, I noticed the newly admitted ones were not undergoing delirious tremors. When they were not in the ward, the Bodhisattva I was, I took it upon myself to search their belongings until I found their bottle of booze (the devils were drinking in the ward to ward off the DTs). When they returned, the fun began as I watched the expression on their face turn from one of smug satisfaction to one of panic.
Fun? How cruel....
Schadenfreunde is not a characteristic of a true Bodhisattva.
Those I took care of certainly delighted in harming sentient beings—including themselves. And how do you know what the characteristic(s) of a Bodhisattva is?
Fed, you are not that well versed in Mahayana Buddhism to put yourself on the line here. Bodhisattvas can be quite perverse.
I don't need to be well versed in Mahayana or anything else to know the difference between genuine Compassion and a sadistic attitude.
In our very own mind live the desire for alcohol, the craving for food, anger, greed, and insipidity not to mention many more such vices. These are the sentient beings we must save.
When we produce bodhicitta in our heart becoming a bodhisattva we can begin to save our inner beings. Hence, one attacks all the passions in his own mind, and because he does this, naturally, others are attacked as well.
A Bodhisattva does not think of him or herself as as Bodhisattva. Such titles would be of no consequence to a Bodhisattva. As for being compelled to act out of compassion, again it may well be that one is not compelled. However if awakening is in any sense genuine, then one's activity is itself a manifestation of compassion not because one is compelled, nor even because one thinks that they should be compassionate, it's simply the appropriate response.
The attainment of enlightenment in Buddhism is often characterized as a flying bird. In order to fly the bird must have two wings; so it is for the achievement of full enlightenment: one must have perfected both wisdom and compassion. Often we think of these two characteristics as being different. But in actuality, they are merely two aspects of the same attainment.
Compassion is the active form of wisdom. For if one has attained wisdom, one sees the innate unsatisfactoriness of things. One sees how suffering and unhappiness arise and how sentient beings are caught in this web of samsara, the continuous round of the arising, maturing and ceasing of existence. And when one sees others caught in duhkha, in suffering, in unsatisfactory conditions, one's compassion arises, for one has experienced this duhkha also, and knows the source of it. The understanding of the existence of suffering causes the arising of compassion, and the understanding of its source is the wisdom that must underlie compassionate action.
- The Practice of Compassion -by Ven. Dr. Karuna Dharma
Karuna (compassion) is the active principle of compassion that gives concrete expression to sunyata in phenomena. If the first is transcendent and looks to the absolute the second is fully immanent and looks down towards phenomena. Sunyata is beyond the duality of good and evil, love and hatred, virtue and vice: second [Karuna] is goodness, love and pure act: Sunyata [wisdom] is potential, and karuna is the actualised state.
- Ven. Sonam Gyaltsen
All Buddhist teachings are arising from the realization of this Prajna of the voidness of self and all phenomena. Satori (enlightenment) is the term given to the experience we have when we awaken to the above mentioned function of the Cosmic Law (Dharma). When self manifests as this Mind-Essence, as Dharma-nature, freely arising and dissolving in accordance with ultimate reality, it is prajna in action. This awakening is at the same time the awakening of true compassion. True compassion is not possible without profound understanding and realization of the nature of all things, animate and in-animate. As soon as we understand completely, we love, we are love...
- Gesshin Myoko Prabhasa Dharma Zenji
The more one reads Buddhist writings, the more one realizes that Buddhist compassion is similar to lay conceptions of compassion in name only. While lay concepts of compassion are of warm feelings for particular people in need, Buddhist compassion is not particular, warm, or even a feeling. Perhaps the most succinct and clear mention of this is in the discussions of the Dalai Lama and Jean-Claude Carriere (1996, p. 53). A footnote explains in refreshingly plain language that compassion in the Buddhist sense is not based on what we call "feeling". While Buddhist's do not deny the natural feelings that may arise from seeing another in need, this is not the compassion Buddhism values. Instead, Buddhist compassion is the result of knowing one is part of a greater whole and is interdependent and connected to that whole. It is the result of practiced meditations. Indeed, Buddhist compassion should be without heat or passion - it is objective, cold, constant and universal.
Trungpa (1973) argues true compassion has the potential to appear cruel or ruthless. Compassion requires prajna or transcendental wisdom - an ability to see past shallow appearances and see true suffering and need. For this reason, compassion may involve giving someone what they really need, not what they want. In addition compassion is an open gift, it is generosity without demand. One does not expect or require reciprocity or confirmation of compassion. Indeed, true compassion will often not be appreciated and may be received with anger or hatred.
- Jennifer Goetz - Buddhist Conceptions of Compassion
"If you will just 'be,' then life flows around and through you. This will lead you into working and communicating with someone, which of course demands tremendous warmth and openess. If you can afford to be what you are, then you do not need the 'insurance policy' of trying to be a good person, a pious person, a compassionate person" . . . "The conventional approach to love is like that of a father who is extremely naive and would like to help his children satisfy all their desires. He might give them everything: money, drink, weapons, food, anything to make them happy. However, there might be another kind of father who would not merely try to make his children happy, but who would work for their fundamental health" (214) . . . "But true compassion is ruthless, from ego's point of view, because it does not consider ego's drive to maintain itself. It is 'crazy wisdom.' It is totally wise, but it is crazy as well, because it does not relate to ego's literal and simpleminded attempts to secure its own comfort"
- Chogyam Trungpa - Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism
While I applaud your efforts to give your own opinions it would more helpful if they were opinions based on actual material from the canon. The above is very clear in what it wishes us to grasp; and compassion is quite different than you imagine.
Actually it supports my position, perfectly--nice dodge monk. I am still waiting for YOUR commentary on the passage. When do you think you will get around to presenting it?
Mahabodhisattva Asanga! :rockon: Oops! If forgot to mention to you that such a Bodhisattva has no human body. So if you decide to look for me, you will be out of luck. A Bodhisattva is always born with a spiritual body (manomayakaya).
It puts aside every aggregate; it clearly sees everything; it has a sure knowledge; it cuts off all sensations; it is absolute and without ground. I has a cool nature, free of all grasping; it does not arise again. — Lalitavistara Sutra
The Buddha is aware that this Dharma cannot be communicated. It goes beyond the six objects of the senses. It is not subject to rules. It is indeterminate and so on. The Buddha thought to himself that if he were to teach it to others it would be wearisome. Then he says:
How useless and wearisome it would be [to teach]; having no reason to teach. I will remain silent, and keep it to my heart. — Lalitavistara Sutra
Then Brahma request the Buddha exercise his compassion and teach his profound Dharma. Before that Brahma lamented to the gods:
Friends, though the Tathagata has become a perfect and completely accomplished Buddha, he is inclined not to teach Dharma. Alas! — Lalitavistara Sutra
The Buddha ponders:
"If I were to teach this Dharma, other would not understand it, and would make of it a mockery. So I am left with little sense of urgency to teach." — Lalitavistara Sutra
Eventually the Buddha agrees to generate compassion (very esoteric subject here—profane minds cannot understand). So who does the Buddha finally teach out of compassion?
"To whom should I first teach the Dharma? Pure beings, of good nature, easy to train, easy to purify, with little desire, hatred, and ignorance, beings whose consciousness is not obscured, have been greatly deprived because they have not heard the Dharma." — Lalitavistara Sutra
Yikes! The Buddha teaches, like any college professor, those sitting in the front of his classroom who are A students!
Your doctrine stinks of aristocracy.
P.S. In your post about the Buddha's enlightenment, is 'Brahma' to be perceived as having a separate reality from fiction? If not, why should be take the txt to be anything other than allegorical?
It has been the tool of generations of dominators through religion that they have a secret knowledge that the "profane" cannot grasp, therby making them 'special'. Is this what yiou are saying? Do you mean that anyone who disagrees with you is profane?
This will be the last acknowledgment of our Bodhisattva on my part. This reminds me of my sister who is convinced she has some sort of divine power, yet "outs" people in AA all the time. It seems her ignorance prevents her from understanding the first and fundamental rule of Alcoholics Anonymous. It appears that our Bodhisattva is possessed of a profane ignorance of Right Speech. This tactic is called "baffling with bullshit". I refuse to eat feces because it's unwholesome. I refuse to absorb it through reading for the same reason.
Love,
Brigid
(Why? Why did I have to look? WHY? Like a bad accident on the road!):scratch: :eekblue: :wtf: :bs: :hohum:
I decided to cut and paste the important parts of the link Rev. Genryu put in his post.
Substances of abuse essentially hijack reward circuits in the brain and acquire overpowering survival value for the individual. This explains, at least in a general sense, why addicted persons will forsake all other life activities and obligations and even their own health in pursuit of more drugs (or alcohol).
Substance Dependence (Addiction) is considered in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual as a maladaptive pattern of substance use leading to significant impairment or distress in three (3) or more of the following 7 areas during a 12-month period:
Tolerance – defined by either: a) a need for increased amounts of substance to achieve intoxication or desired effects, b) diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of substance.
Withdrawal – evident by either: a) characteristic, uncomfortable abstinence signs/symptoms for the particular substance, b) the same (or closely related) substance is taken to relieve or avoid the withdrawal syndrome.
The substance is used in greater quantities or for longer periods than intended.
There is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control substance use.
Considerable time and effort are spent in obtaining or using the substance or in recovering from its effects.
Important social, employment, and recreational activities are given up or reduced because of an intense preoccupation with substance use.
Substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or worsened by the substance. For example, depression caused by cocaine, or an ulcer made worse by alcohol.
Now, this is no surprise, but I have been a recovered alcoholic/addict for over 16 years now. The longer I've been away from the stuff, the more I have a problem with the addiction model of recovery. I really like dependence better. Because you can become independent of the substance of choice. It is in anyone's best interest to avoid the substance once off of it. But there may be times that it is unavoidable. How many people do you know that are upset about using mouth wash? I had to decide whether to use it or not. I made the wrong choice and had some nasty periodontal disease. But it was made in good conscience.
A few weeks back I had a cold and took Ny-Quil to help me sleep. The stuff has alcohol in it. According to the addiction model, I could have set off a chain reaction to my next drink because I have set off the "reward system" and it is risky to do that. Well, I haven't thought of a drink or drug until this post. I have had to be prescribed narcotic drugs in the past year and have to be careful about my intake.
But alcohol and drugs are only one thing you can abuse. The process addictions set off the same "reward system" in the brain. I was termed a sex addict once in my 20's. (Those people were cracked. I was more of a sexual anorexic than anything). But there are people with gambling, food, sex and any number of compulsive behaviors.
What in the world does all of this have to do with Buddhism? It seems to me that anything that clouds the mind should be avoided unless necessary. In the time of the Buddha, I doubt their understanding of pharmacology was any where near what we have today. But it has become obvious that it isn't only drugs/alcohol. No offense ladies, but I have had women tell me that they can eat themselves into a daze. I can do that myself but only if it's CHOCOLATE!!!!!!! Or pizza or chips. But I digress. If it clouds your mind, you need to think twice about it.
Usually what we do in the States is give a medication that actually puts the patient asleep for most of 72 hours during the initial phase of withdrawal. We also have done charcoal to absorb drugs. Cleaning them up isn't fun either.
They used to do controlled withdrawal but found that it could actually do more harm in the long run. The thinking now is get them off booze/drugs as fast as possible and as painlessly as possible.
I think one thing that is happening is that we are becoming a society of "laying blame". It also seems amazing how in vogue it seems to become "dependant" on something. I CANNOT count on two hands and two feet how many people I currently know that are on some sort anti-depressant drug. What is up with this?
From my own experience - I used to smoke. I loved smoking - say what you will and banty words with me - but I loved smoking. But, I decided to quit. I was doing lots of martial arts at the time and various contact and non-contact tournaments and I thought I would quit. I should get better wind, better breathing, better stamina, etc.
I also used to hear people say:
"Oh, when I quit smoking, everything tasted better!" or
"Oh!, when I quit smoking, my johnson grew 3 more inches!" or
"Oh!, when I quit smoking, I could breathe so much easier!" or
"Oh!, when I quit smoking, my hooters grew an extra cup!" or
"Oh!, when I quit smoking, I became indepedantly wealthy!"
You know what - none of these things happened to me. I also realized that, unlike a lot of people, I was quite content with other people still smoking. A lot of my friends still smoked - but I didnt' feel that I needed to berate them for smoking - nor did I feel that once I had quit - that I had to be labelled as "a recovering smoker" - I just didn't smoke anymore. I also didn't judge or rant or rave at them. That was their decision that "this" was mine. I didn't think anymore of it than that.
I even remember, after not having smoked for over 5 years, that one time I was out on a house boat with some friends over a weekend. I had one cigarette, for shits and giggles one day, and a cigar one evening. I didn't think I was falling apart or becoming addicted again. In fact, I didn't even think about it. Once it was done for me, it was done. I never thought about it more than that. I didn't crave. I didn't become addicted again because, truly, it was no longer a part of me.
I think sometimes we get caught up too much on participating in "this 12 step program" or "that anti-dependancy party" instead of just saying, "I used to do that, but now I don't do that anymore."
Now, I'm not saying, "if you were an alcoholic and you had a dependancy problem - screw it, bf says you can safely have a drink again." I'm not saying that at all.
But I am saying that - if you've given this up, it's no longer a part of you. You aren't So-and-So that is a recovering "this" or "that".
You are just you.
-bf
You are right on this. I honestly don't think about alcohol or drugs. Someone asked me if smoking pot might help with some of the pain issues I have. I told them that it wasn't an option for me. I say "recovered" because so many people think that you should say "recovering" as you will never get well. :bs: If I'm not over it by now, shoot me. And don't worry. I won't take a drink because of your post. LOL!
Also with the quit smoking thing. I can no longer smoke due to screwing up my lungs really good. But I don't miss it. I also don't berate my friends who smoke. It's their business. If they ask for my help in quitting smoking, fine. If not, let them do what they want. Just don't blow smoke in my face or up my............OOPS! This is a family friendly forum.
Thank you, Jerry. I wasn't using Right Speech very well, was I?
WOW!! I didn't know about the putting the patient to sleep! What a wonderful idea!!! That's THE most compassionate thing ever. I really applaud that and I wish my mother could have done it that way. It's brilliant.
(One of my friends o.d.'d once and threw up the charcoal all over me at the hospital. It was impossible to get out of my shirt, LOL, but she survived, thank goodness.)
Deepak Chopra has some interesting ideas about addiction. He was an intern, I think, at an addiction clinic and watched a smoker smoke a cigarette through his trachial tube. He began to believe that addiction was really a spiritual disease, like a spiritual longing to be reconnected. You've probably heard this already.
I think it's interesting. Especially since I'm quitting smoking and I'm heavily addicted, I think. I'm terrified. I've had no other addiction to overcome in my life and this one's a biggie. Hey, you quit! How did you do it? My doctor told me to use the patch but I'm also wondering about that plastic cigarette-like inhaler thing. I'm really nervous about this. I was born into a house where 4 of my family members smoked and my mother smoked throughout the pregnancy. I was always in a cloud of smoke. And my mother's not quitting and we live together. I've been in such denial for so long. I don't know what's going to happen.
"What in the world does all of this have to do with Buddhism? It seems to me that anything that clouds the mind should be avoided unless necessary. In the time of the Buddha, I doubt their understanding of pharmacology was any where near what we have today. But it has become obvious that it isn't only drugs/alcohol. No offense ladies, but I have had women tell me that they can eat themselves into a daze. I can do that myself but only if it's CHOCOLATE!!!!!!! Or pizza or chips. But I digress. If it clouds your mind, you need to think twice about it."
Chocolate? Did somebody say CHOCOLATE??? LOL!
What made me finally decide to quit was the Buddha's words saying that self-affliction as well as afflicting others was unskillful and to be avoided. That's what finally pushed me over the edge. And I've always felt that independence was a fundamental in Buddhism.
If you have any pointers please share them with me. I feel weak about this and I'm afraid the back pain will make me crave for the comfort. I'm afraid, can you tell? LOL
Love,
Brigid
Buddhafoot, that's exactly how I want it to be with me. I want to just be able to say "I'm not a smoker" and be done with it. It's like changing my identity. So, maybe I should not identify with smoking. Oh, I don't know.
Help me, guys. I'm a little bit in awe of people who have quit smoking.
I've never heard of this before.
Obviously, I haven't spent much time around addicts.
-bf
I'm not saying it was easy. I'm saying that I quit. Well, I lie... I have a cigar a couple of times a year while golfing or something with other guys that are having cigars.
But, as for smoking, it is tough to do.
I remember how much my brain used to mess with me.
I'd do something like, go to the bathroom and my head would be saying, "Damn! Do you realize you just went to the bathroom by yourself? Man, you/we deserve a cigarette after doing something like that! You DESERVE it, bf..."
It was very tough. I found that I had to actually change what I did. I did not do the old things that I used to do. I changed some habits and did different things.
Oddly enough, I also never told myself that I was quitting.
"I just wasn't having a cigarette."
It's tough Brigid - just hang in there - if this is something you want to do. If you do fail - think about that cigarette when you're sucking it into yourself. Enjoy it - but think about what it's doing to your lungs - the chemicals - the immediate destruction of your insides.
Enjoy it - but think about it. But, after you falter and have that one - can you put yourself back on the Path?
Good luck - I wish you the best.
-bf
Try the patch!
I know a guy that has been on a nicotine patch (full strength) for about 6 months! His doctor says, "Hey... I'm your doctor. I think I'd rather have you on a patch for a little longer than is necessary - rather than have you smoking. We'll deal with the patch later."
-bf
"Oddly enough, I also never told myself that I was quitting.
"I just wasn't having a cigarette." "
That resonates for some reason. I'm going think about that. And changing your other habits, as well. I know I'll have to do that for sure. It's the automatic physical, subliminal habit that's going to get me. Or the "I'm in pain! WAH! I have to smoke!" crap.
Thanks!
Brigid
You don't want to quit the way I did initially. I was on a ventilator and on medications to keep me asleep, and keep my blood pressure up, and antibiotics to kill what was causing my blood pressure to drop. I woke up 36 days later going "WTF? Damn, I want a cigarette". But there was one of those tracheostomy tubes in my throat hooked to a ventilator. Not pretty.
I was in the hospital for 2 months so by the time I left, I hadn't had a cigarette in 2 months. I resigned myself to the fact that I had quit. I was still thinking about it though. About every 2 hours the desire would come up. I joined an online support system at www.quitsmoking.about.com that was very helpful. Also, www.whyquit.com also has some very interesting articles. Learning all about the addiction and how it works is extemely helpful.
But what I did that worked the best is "I'm not smoking today". That way, I didn't think about yesterday or tomorrow in regards to smoking. It really helped me to realize that it was a choice I had to make every day. Now, over a year later, I don't think about it much. I do notice the cigarette counters though, still. I may always. But I do realize that it will kill me if I start up again and smoke a pack a day like I did.
Like BF, I had my little rituals around smoking. The toughest for me was meals. I loved a smoke after meals. I'm sure it would taste like crap to me now. I also realize that I'm playing with fire if I do. My doctor informed me that I was about 2 years away from emphysema if I didn't quit. That didn't sound good to me either.
If you need a shoulder to whine on, you know where to go. BF is always available. LOL! And you could also shout to me. I will do anything I can to help.
And I think you're right about it tasting horrible to you now. I haven't drank alcohol for years but it wasn't on purpose, we just don't have any in the house and I don't go out to bars or restaurants anymore. But last year at my nephews wedding I tried to drink a glass of red wine (one of my favourites) with dinner and I hadn't had it in so long it tasted TERRIBLE. It was a good wine but all I could think of was "Man. I'm dying for a glass of Welch's grape juice". LOL
I can't use the patches because I am allergic to the glue on them. I can't chew gum because it gets all wrapped up in my front plate (dentures - bite people at arm's length!). I am hoping that my success with stopping drinking will help me when I try again, as will accepting that this stumbling block is of my own making, facing it and letting it go. Well that's the theory anyway! :rarr:
All that info is fantastic! I can't believe it. There's so much help there. And an MSN message board as well! I'll really need that. This is so great. I would have found all the crap info if I'd done it myself. Thank you, Thank you ,Thank you!!!!
Love,
Brigid
I'm afraid of turning into a screaming banshee.
I can't afford to plant any more karmic seeds by lashing out and going into a fury every two minutes.
But I have to do it. The smoking alone is terrible self-affliction. I might as well be forcing someone else to smoke. It boils sown to the same thing.
I'm feeling super empowered by Jerbear's info, though. I'm so grateful for it and it's exactly the kind of stuff I need. I don't think I'm going to use the patch. It's the conditioned behavioral habit that I'm most worried about. But I feel like I have good tools to get the job down now. Oh, how I love you guys. What help you've all given me. Oh, no. I'm going to get mushy. I better stop now before I make a sentimental fool of myself. LOL
Love Brigid
Tell you what gal - shall we do this together? Hmm? Sort of hold e-hands and mail each other when we feel like screaming? PM me. SNIFFFFF
Yea, Me neither. Never spent any time around addicts...*looks around not making eye contact with anyone*
ahem.
regards
This was a big challenge for me when I gave up.
I found it helpful to have something to occupy my hands. So instead of a pack of cigs and a lighter I carried around a pendant on a piece of small rope. Everytime I wanted to smoke I'd take out my improvised toy and play with it (twirling it around) for as long as it took until I was bored. After that I'd found that I'd lost the urge to smoke.
After a few weeks I didn't need it anymore.
It's been 2 and a half years now.
Good luck!
Yes, yes. Good. That's just what I mean. I'll use that. My muscles must be ingrained with memory and I just want something to over write that. O.K. I'll find something to use.
Knitwtch,
YES! That sounds splendid. I'll email you. Thank you.
If anyone has more advice, keep it coming.
(This is my FAVOURITE thread!)
Love, Brigid
The following was originally sent to Brigid via pm, but you could use it too.
In full confidence that Brigid won't mind.
You smoke! You're concerned with the actual physical habit. Habit is mechanical, dead. If you fight it, you give it energy, life. Just watch. Observe actually: picking up the package/opening the package/taking the cigarette out of the package/putting the cigarette between your lips/flicking the lighter/lighting it/drawing the smoke into your mouth-down the throat-into the lungs. Watch everything in minute detail and the habit will die and fall away naturally, because you have stopped giving it energy.
This is only my opinion and do what works for you. One thing about quitting smoking is nicotine withdrawal. You have to get that out of your system. That takes 72 hours (if you're reading the sites I sent you Brigid, you know that now). Then the rest is mental. Now, it's still hard. Some people use nicotine replacement therapy, but for 72 hours it doesn't really seem worth it. If you feel a tapering down approach better for yourself, by all means do it. I would just hate to give another company more money for nicotine that can be out of your system in 3 days.
Do with it what you will. And curse my name and say "You got off easy. All you had to do was sleep".
Bless you for your help, Jerry. For me it is the psychological addiction that is the hardest - the first two days aren't too bad, which is when the nicotine addiction is wearing off - I quite enjoy the light-headed somewhat spaced out feeling, but the emotional withdrawal symptoms kick in on Day Three and Four which is when I risk becoming a monster - but maybe having someone else to do it with will help and we can mail each other morale-boosting ideas.
Thanks to all - mmmwwwwuhhh