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interplanetary reincarnation
I was curious as to why it is often assumed that one could only be reborn on earth. After all there are likely hundreds of millions of planets that are capable of supporting life (even if the life form in question is not immediately recognisable as such) in this galaxy alone and there are hundreds of trillions of Galaxies. Taking this into consideration, the odds of being reincarnated on earth are literally astronomical. Yet in the vast majority of cases where people claim to be able to recall past lives, it is always in the form of an earth being. Is this because as humans we are unable to comprehend any recollections of lives as beings so drastically different? As well, I am aware of the concept of other "realms" and do realize that they could be interpreted as other planetary bodies. However, people generally only seem to recall being an organism on earth, which brings up the question of whether beings are drawn to certain planets and are fated to be reincarnated there until attaining enlightenment.
So any ideas?
MOD EDIT: Moved to Advanced Ideas
So any ideas?
MOD EDIT: Moved to Advanced Ideas
0
Comments
There is Birth
Birth takes place in many worlds.
Time and place are concepts created by the mind, and the fruits of one's actions actions are unhindered by either. The effects are karma are universal. Becoming will lead to birth in a time and place that is determined by the skillfulness/unskillfulness of prior actions.
There is no "re"-birth. There is "birth." There is no "you" or "I" or "me" reborn.
PRETEND IT DIDNT HAPPEN!!!
to the OP: I've read that rebirths can happen intergalactically, but I'm not sure where I read that--not sure if it was from a Tibetan source, or a bit of New Age fancy. But if they can occur in different realms (hell realms, god realms, etc.), why not on other planets? Very good question, though, about past life memories being limited to Earth-based lives. It's hard enough for people to accept the idea of rebirth/reincarnation. Imagine the reaction if there were people going around saying they remembered a past life on a planet in another galaxy! : 0
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/snapshot01.htm
'The Buddha described a 10,000 world systems, which was to say that there are literally an innumerable amount of solar systems. A world system was the description for a sun or star with several planets revolving around it. We now know that there are several solar systems through direct evidence with high powered space telescopes. Nearly one hundred planets have been identified in the known universe up to this point. The Buddha stated that "the infinite world spheres are incalculable" (KN, Buddhavamsa 1.64).'
http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=The_science_of_Buddhism
:scratch:
However, with that said, I have met a very few individuals who do appear to have issues/karma and history that is not from what we recognize as our world, and they are really quite rational, sober, extraordinary.... and vaguely lonely in a very difficult to define and nagging spiritual manner here on this earth.
Generally, in a lighter note, it is much more closer to bridge with one another in view of people attachment over earth and earth beings. For a toddler without being shown and brought to other country, they will not even know there is another "earth" existed over the other corner. As for fate, it is subjected to change, so there is reincarnation, and the good news of reincarnation is that life never end called eternity, until one is noble enough to appreciate four noble truth and be liberated from reincarnation. The concept of realm can and cannot be interpreted as interplanetary. Some can be seen, while some are not as human eyes is limited in its capability - human can't even see x-ray. I do not think that you find your love seeable.
It's probably more due to the limited imagination of humans when making stuff up...
Consider the number of sentient beings on Earth. Over time, this number fluctuates hugely, so there simply cannot be a 1:1 correlation of rebirths on Earth. This leads one to speculate on interplanetary rebirth as a way of 'balancing' the equation. However, this is also an ultimately fruitless exercise - because what are the chances that the number of sentient beings in the entire universe is constant? Next to zilch. Which begs the question - in cases where the total number of sentient beings decreases rapidly (imagine a large meteor hitting a life-sustaining planet), where do all the those 'extra' sentient beings go?
My point exactly. The thing is, this is true of the universe as a whole too (eg if a planet is swallowed by an expanding sun, we can assume there isn't a magical burst of new births of exactly equal number on another planet), so all in all, it's hard to see how the numbers add up.
Hmmm.
the specific star (a habitable planet in that star) is Pleione.
the life prior to that life, was in this earth; in Italia.
the life prior to that life, was in this earth; as a tree.
the lives prior to that lives are countles, and there was a decision on my part to partially forget those memories in my prior life.
there is no recollection of ever being an asura, but... in devanamanarati, there is the recollection of slaying asuras with Frænthir.
after my death, what could be termed a wife in this earth... decided to be reborn here... she doesn't remember enough. my allies/friends of devanamanarati, adviced me to be reborn in the country that 'am now; and not in Italia as was my wish.
in norse, rebirths of Devanamanarati (it is a more common skill there; to choose a rebirth) are basically visitors of Alfheim.
from : Cakkhu Sutra
"One who knows and sees that these phenomena are this way is called a stream-enterer, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening."
"world spheres" are universes... as (fractal?) nodes
As for where you are reborn, there's a simple formula for that---we tend to be drawn to similar situations; karmically we have experienced a whole range of births and probably have been born in many different areas of the universe (to the extent that it has true physical location); however we tend to be attracted to similar situations to what we're used to and, more specifically, to beings we have karma with. We tend to transmigrate together with those people, though the nature of our relationship with them undoubtedly undergoes vast changes from one life to the next. And why to I use the word "attraction" here; isn't there some being sending us on to our rebirth destination? Nope; you choose your rebirth; however the mind that makes that choice is one that's extremely sensitive to all the negative mental factors; it's a mind that exaggerates them 100 fold or so. If you have some slight resentment towards another you may experience perhaps a burning desire to harm them; if you prone to slight paranoia look out in the BARDO; it's filled with mind-created monsters, high cliffs, and accidents waiting to happen. It's of a similar nature to dream state.
It's very unlikely for any being to be born a human. That's what's important to know. It's said that the chances are the same this probability: Imagine a sea turtle, that swims around under the sea randomly and comes up for air once in a hundred years or so. Then imagine that you throw a life preserver, in the shape of a ring, with a whole in the middle in any of the oceans of the world. That chance that the turtle will emerge into the ring is the same as the chance that any sentient being will be reborn as a human. Now once born as a human, if one continues to create the same causes and conditions that resulted in that rebirth, it's likely that they will continue to be reborn as a human; however, that isn't the least bit certain, nor is place of birth.
Why did you think that it is zilch ? What makes you rule this out, when we know very little about the size of the universe (we only know about the observable universe) or if there is only one universe. Also do not forget not every sentient being goes to rebirth, some reach the end of the path and leave samsara.
:scratch:
I know what your saying robot, still if the concept of rebirth was not an vital part of Buddhist teachings, why did Buddha teach and talk about it so much ?
p.s I could also say that rebirth is as likely as it is unlikely, i.e know one knows for sure.
A "tree" is a naturally occurring physical form that metabolizes the energy of both heaven and earth in order to engage in and support a myriad of life and growth all around it. All human beings manifest pandimensionally rather like "trees," (not unlike that leafy thing in the back yard) with each growth ring representing a separate lifetime "self." The Buddha taught rebirth. He knew what he was talking about. It is observable reality. Everybody observes it eventually.
The fact that those minds area totally empty of even the slightest existence from their own side, and that there is no path, no realization, no attainment, no Buddha---ultimately don't negate the necessity of following a path, gaining realization, attainment, and ultimately, Buddhahood, because all of the causes and conditions for the appearance of Buddhahood to manifest to a sentient being araise out of the cesspit...the shit...that is Samsara. Like the loutus arises out of the muck.
So, in the end we USE completely faulty minds, minds that see absolutely nothing in accord with reality, to penetrate and eviscerate them. The only difference between what a Buddha experiences and what we (those of you who are not already Buddhas) experience is that a Buddha makes no error; his mind is correct. Our cognition is erroneous all the time, even when we do virtuous things right up until we see emptiness directly. Since so much of what we do to get to that point relates to working with a totally erroneous mind, why point it out? Thinking only about emptiness gets you absolutely nowhere without cultivating a very stable and pliable mind filled with virtue, aspiring to achieve a result, vigilant, having a view of non-harm, practicing compassion and loving kindness, having little attachment to samsaric pleasure, having great patience, having equanimity, and making joyful effort towards the goal. Every one of these minds, from the standpoint of ultimacy, is an erroneous mind; yet they function to propel practitioners who achieve them to stainless enlightenment or nirvana (whatever their goal).
Not only that, in my lineage of practice, at least, we're taught that, even though our goal is gaining complete enlightenment for the benefit of all sentient beings, we MUST do what's called the "common" Buddhist practices (those shared by every type of Buddhist practitioner) such as those related to securing a better rebirth, in order to have the authentic experience of all the of possible scopes of all practitioners---because it forms a logical progression from one scope to the next. If you try to pretend you really are only thinking about enlightenment to help all beings at the beginning of your spiritual journey you're probably fooling yourself . So, the topic of rebirth IS a skillful means to bring about a mind which rejoices in virtue and gives up unskillful actions in order, initially, at least, to secure a nice spot in a God realm, perhaps, and then, later, is able to undertake the really hard work of achieving the most profound view, the view that you'd like to be discussing.
So rebirth is a valid topic related to means, and the person who posted this topic was engaging, or at least trying to engage in a valid dialog about it.
So, OK, some discussion here is speculative; it's good to disabuse people of silly notions or unsupportable ones. However emptiness is a completely different topic. That was my only point.
I love to engage on the topic of Emptiness. Please start a thread on it!
and so...the Buddha taught about suffering...
Of course you can simply believe that the number of lives is constant, and that consciousnesses are zipping all over the universe, defying the laws of physics and balancing the numbers perfectly. But that is blind faith, not rational thought. I leave it up to you to decide.
Namaste
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14680570
I do not know and neither do you how the life force/energy would transmigrate from one body to the next. So in my opinion to say it is near zilich is ruling something out without any evidence or rational reasoning to do so, apart from arbitrary assumptions on your behalf.
I suggest you should read up on some of the major (and minor) cosmology theories and you will see that the full description of the universe may not be as straight forward as your trying to say.
Here is a brief article to point you in the right direction.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100909004112.htm
And by the way my logic is that you cant rule anything out until you have at least reasonable proof to disregard it. I don't believe there is such a proof for rebirth, unless you can provide it, and I don't mean your reasoning based on biased assumptions that you have chosen to support your view.
Your assumptions are 'current science might be wrong, therefore they are wrong, and my unscientific belief is true'.
Now if your telling me that its your gut feeling, then fine no problem no one would argue with you, especially me as I have a gut feeling that rebirth is an integral part of the workings of our universe, but I do not have proof to back it up, only my own logical reasoning and faith.
I would however, concede that there is a big chance I may be wrong, However, I certainly would not say the chance of rebirth being correct or incorrect is zilch, especially when I have no proof/evidence to back that up, scientific or otherwise.
Basically our current understanding of the universe is in its infancy, and in my opinion its a bit early to be completely ruling out concepts such as this when we do not know the full facts, and its definitely a waste of time saying science or statistics goes against the concept of rebirth or a constant number of sentient beings as
1:We can only speak for the observable universe in which we live not the full massive expanse of our universe/universes- rebirth if it is real may extend to each and every part of the full universe/universes.
2:Statistics is a waste of time also as we can again only account for the observable universe, who knows how many stars with planets, with life on them exists in the full universe/universes. So any statistical model that you have will fail to account for this when talking about a concept such as rebirth which may cover the full universe/universes.
Do you see my point about it, that saying a near zilch chance is just not true ?