Steve Jobs

jupitermadcat

I've read that Steve Jobs is Buddhist and yet he creates things of Attachment would that be a Buddhist thing to do? Just saying.

tmottes

What do you do for work?

Jeffrey

apples don't attach people do

jupitermadcat

I own Pre-schools

DaltheJigsaw

I own Pre-schools

Wow!

Jeffrey

Do they teach meditation in the preschools?

StaticToybox

This might sound prejudicial, but honestly I take a lot of wealthy Westerners' Buddhism with a pinch of salt.

tmottes

So you are in the business of conditioning young humans ... just kidding with you. My point was that the Buddha never taught that you can't make a living or even gain wealth. This all falls under the noble eight-fold path, specifically right livelihood.

Right livelihood is concerned with ensuring that one earns one's living in a righteous way. For a lay disciple the Buddha teaches that wealth should be gained in accordance with certain standards. One should acquire it only by legal means, not illegally; one should acquire it peacefully, without coercion or violence; one should acquire it honestly, not by trickery or deceit; and one should acquire it in ways which do not entail harm and suffering for others.[34] The Buddha mentions five specific kinds of livelihood which bring harm to others and are therefore to be avoided: dealing in weapons, in living beings (including raising animals for slaughter as well as slave trade and prostitution), in meat production and butchery, in poisons, and in intoxicants (AN 5:177). He further names several dishonest means of gaining wealth which fall under wrong livelihood: practicing deceit, treachery, soothsaying, trickery, and usury (MN 117). Obviously any occupation that requires violation of right speech and right action is a wrong form of livelihood, but other occupations, such as selling weapons or intoxicants, may not violate those factors and yet be wrong because of their consequences for others.

I suppose you could say that the iPhone could be an intoxicant, haha.

snGus

I've read that Steve Jobs is Buddhist and yet he creates things of Attachment would that be a Buddhist thing to do? Just saying.

If you think that way then everything that we use during our life would be things of Attachment, including everything further than food and water. So if Mac products are objects off attachment so would be your car, your house, your tea, your clothes, your house, etc.

I believe material goods are necessary for us to have a necessary structure to follow the path to enlightenment. If we were to abstain from everything---Mac products and everything else---we would have no access to the large Buddhist content on the internet, Buddhist books on bookstores and a comfortable place to read these material and to practice meditation, etc.

I started a thread weeks ago in which were discussed whether we have to abstain from everything and some very skilled members came up with the conclusion that we don't. Here is the thread: http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/11584/did-buddha-teach-we-have-to-abstain-from-everything-including-our-professional-success#Item_56

snGus

Oh by the way I didn't know Steve Jobs is a Buddhist. There's an example of someone who found a balance between the path to enlightenment and professional career.

jupitermadcat

Oh I understand it was just a question I threw out there.

Zelkova

He helped create tools that are useful and convenient for people. It's not really his fault if someone becomes attached to it.

StaticToybox

He helped create tools that are useful and convenient for people. It's not really his fault if someone becomes attached to it.

Ehh...Seems to me that Apple products are aggressively marketed as fashion accessories as much as technological tools. Just kinda the impression I get from them.

Mountains

I may be attached to my Mac, but it's also the tool with which I made my living for many years, so I'm extremely grateful to Mr. Jobs for that. Without it I'd have been stuck with Windows on an IBM machine, and I'd now be institutionalized for the rest of my life

Ehh...Seems to me that Apple products are aggressively marketed as fashion accessories as much as technological tools. Just kinda the impression I get from them.

I don't think they're actively marketed (by Apple) that way. They may *be* that to some people, but not to die-hard Mac users. I don't own (and don't want) an iPhone, and the only reason I have an iPad is because I needed one for school. I may well end up selling it, as I haven't used it in several weeks now.

devwil

Selling computers is hardly the worst thing you can do as a lay Buddhist.

Cinorjer

I've read that Steve Jobs is Buddhist and yet he creates things of Attachment would that be a Buddhist thing to do? Just saying.

He created useful computers that helped revolutionize society and was head of a company that pushed innovation in computers and provided many thousands of jobs, directly and through manufacturing his products. Without people like him, computers would still be for the military and big business and consist of huge mainframes. Whether or not you consider a world where everything you use is computerized a good or bad thing is up to you.

As far as I know he did not use his wealth and influence to take advantage of people, either his workers or investors. There is no public record of his charity and philanthropic work, which might only mean he prefers to keep his donations private instead of bragging about the various foundations and causes he supports, like most rich people. Nor do we know what his will does with his money upon his death.

As for the Apple products being "objects of attachment" that twists the meaning of non-attachment and Right Livelihood. A fine painting can be an object of attachment, so should Buddhists not create artwork? A building can be an object of attachment, so should a Buddhist not build a beautiful house? You can see where this is going.

StaticToybox

Ehh...Seems to me that Apple products are aggressively marketed as fashion accessories as much as technological tools. Just kinda the impression I get from them.

I don't think they're actively marketed (by Apple) that way. They may *be* that to some people, but not to die-hard Mac users. I don't own (and don't want) an iPhone, and the only reason I have an iPad is because I needed one for school. I may well end up selling it, as I haven't used it in several weeks now.

I think they are. At least going by some the commercials and PR I've seen for their products. But oh well, it is a small matter.

Mountains

As for the Apple products being "objects of attachment" that twists the meaning of non-attachment and Right Livelihood. A fine painting can be an object of attachment, so should Buddhists not create artwork? A building can be an object of attachment, so should a Buddhist not build a beautiful house? You can see where this is going.

What he said... Apple doesn't make you become attached to their product. You do that yourself.

tjampel

It's not much of a stretch to say that the siddhis that we can experience today are the things that people like Jobs developed . The ability to obtain and transmit an incredibly wide range of information nearly instantaneously is a great boon for any Buddhist practitioner. I don't care what religion Steve Jobs practices. I do rejoice in his genius and in his work in this realm, because it has the power to help keep the dharma a vital and easily transmittable force in our lives.

Vincenzi

making tools that last a lot (less environmental impact) and earning a living with selling them... is good enough.

dharma

The ability to obtain and transmit an incredibly wide range of information nearly instantaneously is a great boon for any Buddhist practitioner.

I agree. It is a convenient dharma tool. You can have an entire Pali Canon in your pocket and access anytime. You can listen to your guided meditation anywhere . I believe the iPhone/ iPod Touch/ iPads are great inventions from Steve Jobs. Has anyone try out guided meditation app from the appstore or sutta pitaka from iBook?

MindGate

Who is this 'Steve Jobs'? Is he like the brother of Bill Gates, living in his shadow?

Vincenzi

the Mac was first, MindGate. he is a world-known billionaire.

Gates supports the patenting of Big Pharma.

that was a lame try at starting a flame war btw...

jupitermadcat

Steve Jobs' cause of death is listed as respiratory arrest caused by a pancreatic tumor, according to a report.
Jobs, 56, died about 3 p.m. last Wednesday at his home in Palo Alto, Bloomberg News said. The Santa Clara County Public Health Department issued the death certificate Monday.
"Respiratory arrest was listed as the immediate cause of death, with 'metastatic pancreas neuroendocrine tumor' listed as the underlying cause, according to the certificate, Bloomberg said. "Jobs’s death occurred five years after the onset of the tumor, according to the certificate."
Jobs was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer in 2004, and received a liver transplant in 2009.
The death certificate also says there was no autopsy. Bloomberg said that Jobs was "buried at a non-denominational cemetery in Santa Clara County on Oct. 7."

buddhajunkie

Steve Jobs in full lotus position, Time Magazine.

http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,20111017,00.html

ThailandTom

If he was fully committed to the dharma he would not have been in the position he wss in. To be an owner of a successful business, let alone one such as apple, you need to be ruthless, greedy and stand upon people as you work your way up.

Cinorjer

I've never met the man, but I suspect he was neither the enlightened genius some people picture him as, nor the ruthless rich head of a soulless business empire others see. Like people everywhere, he would have been a mixture of both. Without being able to think outside the box, he never would have taken on IBM with his dream of personal computers. Without being a schrewd business man willing to do what it takes to make a company succeed, other companies like IBM would have chewed him up at the start.

People who win the game of life, who see their ideas or dreams become reality, rarely give enough credit to both luck and all the help they got along the way, and the advantage they started out with.

You want a sobering thought? If Steve Jobs had been born either a woman or with brown skin, or came from dirt poor folks, he would have never gotten anyone to invest in his crazy idea back then, not even in the land of opportunity.

SattvaPaul

What would the world look like if it wasn't for Mac?

jupitermadcat

I remember that Nice.

SimpleWitness

Oh by the way I didn't know Steve Jobs is a Buddhist. There's an example of someone who found a balance between the path to enlightenment and professional career.

He passed away.

ThailandTom

LMAO

buddhajunkie

You want a sobering thought? If Steve Jobs had been born either a woman or with brown skin, or came from dirt poor folks, he would have never gotten anyone to invest in his crazy idea back then, not even in the land of opportunity.

I'm not sure about that. The Valley exhibits a higher-than-normal degree of meritocracy. That's why so many immigrants have found success there.

Mountains

If he was fully committed to the dharma he would not have been in the position he wss in. To be an owner of a successful business, let alone one such as apple, you need to be ruthless, greedy and stand upon people as you work your way up.

That's not for us to judge, is it?

Mountains

What would the world look like if it wasn't for Mac?

ThailandTom

I guess not mountains

zombiegirl

What would the world look like if it wasn't for Mac?

that commerical reminds me so much of Brazil that i wonder if it was directed by Terry Gilliam.

jupitermadcat

Ridley Scott.