Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

how can NEEDing more money be acceptable

edited August 2011 in Buddhism Basics
I am so skint, I have lots of debt and struggle to have wants needed. I often find myself dreaming of having more money, or winning the lottery. But these are desires and not right are they!?

My family, the boys and me live below the poverty line and we struggle for the most basic of things, I feel they deserve better. I aspire to do better for them. Am I just causing myself more suffering? How can I turn it around?

Comments

  • when i am hungry, i eat. when i am thirsty, i drink.
    when another is hungry, i feed them. when another is thirsty, i give them water.
    if i am suffering, i comfort myself. if another is suffering, i comfort them.

    if i need money, i work. if i need to support others, i work.

    the mind will create an infinite amount of different stories, which is just added to what is most obvious.

    you throw your hand in a fire. to leave it there would be insanity.

    then what do you do?
  • But there is nothing I physical do to change my situation, this is it for now. How can I deal with it without the 'desire' of better??

    I need to live with it, get on with it without wanting more, expecting miracles and dreaming oF how it could be if I won a million on lottery!!
  • driedleafdriedleaf Veteran
    edited August 2011
    Good fortune will come naturally to those who have virtues, practice what is skillful, and remain wholesome in their karma, this is what I believe.

    with metta :)
  • edited August 2011
    Some Desires are good. Desires are what makes us succesful in life. Perhaps this is something I dont fully Understand and agree about Buddhism. It teaches to give up all desires. But actually, without certian desires we wouldnt GROW. We wouldnt learn.
    If we didnt desire to know better, how would we know any better.
    If we didnt desire food, we would starv to death.

    Life itself is desire.

    They say Babies are born enlightened and then we lose it etc etc..
    But actually, babies desire their mothers milk. and cry for food and cuddles.
    Its natual. Desires are natual. Desires are life.

    Only by having these desires will make you one day make more money.
    If you didnt have any desire to win the lottery you would never put it on therefore you would never win.
    But by desiring for money we put the lottery on and one day 'if we're very lucky' we could win the jackpot.

    So you see, Desire is the key to jackpot.

    Dont try and remove desires just dont let them bring you down. Because thats when we lose sight of the ''NOW''
    We need to stay focused on whats happened right now. By focusing on whats happeneing right now, we then find out what we can change and what we have to accept.

    Desiring things we cannot change is where suffering comes in.
    But in this life, there are ALOT of things we can change. We have the power if only we believe. Might take day, week, months, years. But some things are worth fighting for,and are especially worth waiting for..
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited August 2011
    Good heavens, kayward, don't beat yourself up! Buddhism isn't about guilt-tripping ourselves. You need to pay the rent and feed your kids, it's not a crime to wish you had the money to do that. um...not that it's our business, but isn't the father required to send you child support payments? (I'm just casting about for a solution to your situation, don't mean to pry.) Can the boys get little after-school jobs? That's not too much to ask of teen boys, and you shouldn't feel guilty about having to ask that of them. We had a member here who is starting college now, but she helped support her mother and younger sister when she was in high school. Times are tough, everyone needs to pitch in. You're already doing heroic work by raising them alone, stop kicking yourself. There's nothing to be gained with that, is there? : ) Bless
  • Child support!!! Oh I wish never had a penny, not seen daddy for 12 years!! Practical options like the kids working isn't an option really, it doesn't happen here at all. Bad times!! But I do agree that I am being hard on myself, @ashcatman your post has being very fruitful in my mind, it seeing as motivation to get on and improve and develop and move forward, thank you all x
  • Spell check on my phone is most annoying!! X
  • desiring more money is wrong view... needing more money (for basic needs), is reality.

    upekkha
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited August 2011
    I aspire to do better for them. Am I just causing myself more suffering? How can I turn it around?
    hi

    the Buddha taught about two kinds of desire:

    (1) craving (tanha), the 2nd Noble Truth, the cause of suffering

    (2) right aspiration (samma sankappa), the 2nd factor of the Eightfold Path

    the wish to provide optimally for one's family is right aspiration

    however, only you know in your heart if it is causing you more suffering

    how to turn it around? the Buddha advised to take care with debt; live within one's means; have the view children who do not have the best can develop their own aspirations; they are not as dependent upon you as you may maternally believe

    the Buddha taught there are three kinds of children: (1) children who are less successful than their parents; (2) children who have similar success to their parents; (3) children who are more successful than their parents

    today i was reading about one of Australia's most wealthy men. he grew up rural poor & his mother committed suicide when he was around 17 years old. although his peers of his generation were returning to the land as hippies, he wished to have money. why? because he never ever had any

    as long as your children receive genuine love & honesty from you (and not violence & abuse), they will have the capacity to aspire for themselves in a wholesome way

    many wealthy people, attached to their greed, believe they must financially set up their children and then their grandchilden, as an excuse for their greed

    of their children have problems because they have nothing to work for; because without working for what they have, everything becomes unsatisfactory to them

    to end, if we do not have optimal financial means, our children remain autonomous individuals and can themselves aspire from your situation

    kind regards

    DD :)



  • I am so skint, I have lots of debt and struggle to have wants needed. I often find myself dreaming of having more money, or winning the lottery. But these are desires and not right are they!?
    For householders, there is nothing unwholesome about setting the intention for prosperity to come to you rightfully so that you can take care of your family. In the Pattakamma Sutta ( AN 4.61) the Buddha gave advice to a wealthy householder on household life:


    "Householder, these four things, pleasing and agreeable for worldly pleasure and charm are rare in the world. What four?

    1. May wealth arise to me rightfully.

    2. May my fame spread together with my relatives and Teacher.

    3. May I live long protected.

    4. Securing a place in heaven, may I be born there.

    Householder, these four rare things in the world, are pleasing and agreeable for worldly pleasure and charm.


    The Buddha compares debt to the hindrances. Setting the intention to be financially free is encouraged.



    "There are these four kinds of pleasantness that can be attained by householders partaking in sensual pleasures, at the proper occasions, proper season. Which four?


    1. Pleasantness of Having

    "Householder, what is the bliss of having? There is the case where the son of a good family has wealth earned through his efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of his arm, and piled up through the sweat of his brow, righteous wealth righteously gained.… he experiences bliss, he experiences joy. This is called the bliss of having.

    2. The Pleasantness of Making Use Of Wealth

    "And what is the pleasantness of [making use of] wealth? …..using the wealth earned .. wealth righteously gained, partakes of his wealth and makes merit. … he experiences pleasantness, he experiences joy. ..

    3. The Pleasantness of Debtlessness

    "And what is the pleasantness of debtlessness? … owes no debt, great or small, to anyone at all…he experiences pleasantness, he experiences joy. ..

    4. The Pleasantness of Faultlessness/ Blamelessness

    "Here, householder, the noble disciple is endowed with faultless bodily action, faultless verbal action and faultless mental action. He becomes pleasant thinking I am faultless in bodily, verbal and mental actions."
    My family, the boys and me live below the poverty line and we struggle for the most basic of things, I feel they deserve better. I aspire to do better for them. Am I just causing myself more suffering? How can I turn it around?
    If you provide them with food , clothing, and shelter then be proud of yourself . It is important to balance contentment with what you have while at the same time striving for improvement.

  • @kayward2011 - if your debt is below £15,000 you can apply for a Debt Relief Order, which costs £90 and writes off the debt after 12 months. It's kind of like 'bankruptcy lite'.

  • OH its not that kind of debt, not loads its just student debt and student OD and credit card, nothing major but now l am not working l am on JSA i am just FED up of not having any money!!! xx
  • I aspire to do better for them. Am I just causing myself more suffering? How can I turn it around?
    hi

    the Buddha taught about two kinds of desire:

    (1) craving (tanha), the 2nd Noble Truth, the cause of suffering

    (2) right aspiration (samma sankappa), the 2nd factor of the Eightfold Path

    the wish to provide optimally for one's family is right aspiration

    however, only you know in your heart if it is causing you more suffering

    how to turn it around? the Buddha advised to take care with debt; live within one's means; have the view children who do not have the best can develop their own aspirations; they are not as dependent upon you as you may maternally believe

    the Buddha taught there are three kinds of children: (1) children who are less successful than their parents; (2) children who have similar success to their parents; (3) children who are more successful than their parents

    today i was reading about one of Australia's most wealthy men. he grew up rural poor & his mother committed suicide when he was around 17 years old. although his peers of his generation were returning to the land as hippies, he wished to have money. why? because he never ever had any

    as long as your children receive genuine love & honesty from you (and not violence & abuse), they will have the capacity to aspire for themselves in a wholesome way

    many wealthy people, attached to their greed, believe they must financially set up their children and then their grandchilden, as an excuse for their greed

    of their children have problems because they have nothing to work for; because without working for what they have, everything becomes unsatisfactory to them

    to end, if we do not have optimal financial means, our children remain autonomous individuals and can themselves aspire from your situation

    kind regards

    DD :)



    FABULOUS Thank you for this!!!! x

  • I am with you, I struggle and I get child support and have 2 jobs. I just want a reasonable life back and just enough money. What that is I don't know exactly but to pay all the bills on time and to eat well and maybe even do something fun now and then.
  • Obviously I have no idea how you currently live nor is it my place to judge others on their lifestyle. I was just wondering if perhaps there are other expenses you could cut so that you wouldn't need to struggle for the most basic of things? Move to a smaller place, get rid of that internet on phone subscription, cable tv if you have this?

    I often think which material things in my life I would be able to drop without hestitating if needed and I can come up with quite a few things that might sound impossible for others that don't realise they're attached to material items.
  • If you can learn to be content with food , clothing, and shelter, then feelings of emotional suffering would decrease regarding not having a lot. In this way any extra money that comes your way can be seen as extra bonus and not something that you are dependent on in order to feel happy. Renunciation of materials things are more compatible with people living a monastic life. In the lay life if you renounce money , that would be detrimental. The Buddha never teach that a lay disciple has to renounce money or be poor. It is a rule for monastics though.
  • Obviously I have no idea how you currently live nor is it my place to judge others on their lifestyle. I was just wondering if perhaps there are other expenses you could cut so that you wouldn't need to struggle for the most basic of things? Move to a smaller place, get rid of that internet on phone subscription, cable tv if you have this?

    I often think which material things in my life I would be able to drop without hestitating if needed and I can come up with quite a few things that might sound impossible for others that don't realise they're attached to material items.
    My home is rented and a council house (very cheap) and i dont actually pay any rent the government do that. Other things like internet and phones are vital and cant be cut.
    Its just so expensive here at the moment, and it appears to be getting worse! i'd love to go clothing shopping or decorate my home it hasnt been done for years and l still dont have a carpet in my bedroom. This things could all have been done when i had the money but at the time 'other' things were more important, its like learning the value of money (at my age) and regretting previous habits....but its good to regret is it!!! oh my i need to just stop thinking and just live with what i have and know one day i will be sorted i guess!! :)

  • Okay, that's why I said I obviously didn't have any idea how you currently live. I hope you didn't take offense on my suggestions, they were just meant as examples. I've seen people around me live with a very low pay and they have a car, flat screen tv, iPhone with full internet subscription, etc. :)
    With internet on phone subscription I just meant that possibility to go online with your cellphone, which is quite expensive and a luxury in my country. I can understand why internet and a cell phone can't be cut, but they could be cut down to basic internet and normal cell phones however. I do think in some cases it isn't advisable to live in a bad situation and wait for a change though, a change will come obviously but it may be for the worse. If you want it to change for the better then you do have to work for it. This isn't desire, that's preference. :)
  • No not at all! Sadly my phone is on contract so can't change that, and I am a student so need internet access at home. Its just such a bad economic time, my son went shopping for clothes for college he starts next week and he was shocked that he only managed to get pants, t-shirt and jumper for £40 in what's ment to be a cheap shop (Primark) for those in uk. Year ago he would have got 2 of everything. Hate having to count every penny its frustrating. Today is a bank holiday here and we have stayed home all day, would have loved to have gone out for day with kids but can't get anywhere without getting a bus and for the 3 of us that's £6 per journey. Can't help but desire a lottery win!!
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    If you can learn to be content with food , clothing, and shelter, then feelings of emotional suffering would decrease regarding not having a lot. In this way any extra money that comes your way can be seen as extra bonus and not something that you are dependent on in order to feel happy. Renunciation of materials things are more compatible with people living a monastic life. In the lay life if you renounce money , that would be detrimental. The Buddha never teach that a lay disciple has to renounce money or be poor. It is a rule for monastics though.
    This was wonderful!
    Thank you!
  • Yeah I gotta say when you can't even take the bus for a day off to maybe a park or someplace window shopping then it is okay to complain and worry. For me the worst is the fear, and the fear is not just having struggles but burning out friends and family, not being able to take my kids to the DR the next time they need it (and they go often) or losing out on connections becaue of the gas money or not being able to buy a present for a party. You can bum a ride and make an excuse for the present sometimes, just swallow your pride, but it doesn't work long term.
  • buddha teaches the middle way: you have to have a full belly to be able to meditate and to be able to live a spiritual life your body must have food and shelter or you cannot think about buddhism you are too preoccupied to find your daily bread!i want to say that we must be decently living this is a condition for our improvement in practising! there is nothing wrong with wanting to live decently it is even required! remenber the milk the lady gave to buddha that made him understand ascetism is not the way!kayward you are right to want a decent life! i hope your life will improve!
  • I can really empathise with your situation, Kay. :( Our rent is due in 3 days, our cupboards are bare and I've got debt collectors threatening to take me to court. And all this with £700 in the bank. (Our rent alone is £775.) :/ I'm really struggling not to get mired down in the suffering of it all and not to start speculating over who I ripped off in a past life, but it's difficult when you've skipped 2 meals today because you'd rather your kids ate instead.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited August 2011
    @vixthenomad

    by the sound of it, you need to re-appraise whether you can travel to the new job location offered to you

    when economic times become tough, workers rights diminish

    you did not receive an optimal & moral outcome but it was somewhat reasonable

    please examine the realities carefully

    if there is any pride or moral righteousness in your mind, then let it go and think realistically

    with metta

    DD
  • I feel your pain, everyone. And you all just made me feel much better about my situation. I have debt and get calls all the time, but I can pay rent, have food and still get to a job I really love. I am thinking today I am rich
  • @Dhamma Dhatu,

    I have, and I really can't.

  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran
    I empathise with you. I just realised I won't be able to pay my rent for next month, not sure where money for food will come from (if any), and there's a bank loan to pay off. My unemployment benefit is not coming through because of some complications, and the fact that I'm an immigrant in this country doesn't make it easier. I definitely have an attitude problem.. I could take a physical job on min wage (though it's hard even to get those), but I know I would feel horrible and exploited. I don't know what to do.
  • @sattvapaul - why would you feel 'horrible and exploited'? Personally I've always had cleaning jobs and find the work immensely satisfying.
  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran
    edited August 2011
    @vixthenomad - actually, it would be more adequate to say that I'm dissatisfied and bored out of my mind with these kind of jobs, apart from being physically exhausted (which has to do with my generally low energy levels due partly to the past illness). And I just hate repetitiveness. I've done it for about 4 years and had enough. Besides it makes me angry for some reason if someone hires a cleaner to clean their house.

    It seems I can't get those kind of jobs anyway, could be that employers see my cv and sense that I will leave at the first possible opportunity.
  • I would totally hire a cleaner if I could afford one, and pay for them out of money earned in cleaning other people's houses. Other people's housework is so much easier to do than my own.

    What's on your CV? Anything you can build on with more training, voluntary work, etc?
  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran
    Possibly... I can build on some skills, but it would take time, and I'm in a desperate situation now.
  • I've been in similar straits myself. I hope it gets better for you soon.
  • I feel for you all. Not so long ago I was in a situation of lots of debt, in a job I hated and reached the end of my tether. I put a lot of constructivity to work and it's pretty much paid off. I got another job, stopped paying my debts. Had enough money for food and rent but not debts. I went bankrupt and sorter my life out. I'm now in a better job that pays well. My outgoings are a lot though £400 per month for childcare etc.. and most months I end up with zero in the bank. I'm working on controlling my spending habits so that helps too. Sorry for babbling. But what I'm saying is do what works for you. You don't have to put up with a bad situation, make proactive changes if needed (I had to swollow my pride and admit I couldn't afford the debts as my family came first) things aren't perfect by all means but the hard work does pay off.
Sign In or Register to comment.