As a Buddhist, what should be our response to terrorism?

jll

It is impossible not to be overwhelmed by the 9/11 remembrance.
I am just wondering if a Buddhist response would be any different?

federica

Nope.
Compassion is the primary offering, for all those involved, regardless of race, colour or creed.
In fact, Richard gere made the same observation, at the time, just hours after the incident.
His message ws of course, spot on.
His timing was of course, deplorable.

caz

To pray for peace in their minds and peace in the world, To know every action has an effect and that such deporable actions lead sentient beings to deep misery and suffering after death. Samsara is endless and future lives will equally be so unless we practise the methods to release our selves and others. Misery is bountiful in Samsara and happiness is fleeting whenever tradegy strikes we should take it as an oppertunity to futher our wish to become free and in turn show others correct ways to gain happiness...in this case by showing others it is not correct to harm others and fly airplanes into buildings.

betaboy

A Buddhist isn't supposed to think of politics, so the question is moot.

riverflow

Here's a transcription of Taigen Dan Leighton's dharma talk on this topic (and some excellent thoughts from David Loy), given in October of 2001, "Evil in Buddhism":

http://www.mtsource.org/talks/Evil.htm

Highly recommended. Looking back in retrospect, its sad to say everything turned out exactly as he said, in terms of the US reaction (as opposed to response) to 9/11.

That was an insane time-- just the first several months after 9/11 and the run up to invading Afghanistan, and then later, Iraq. There was only one opinion to be properly held: "Let's bomb the crap out of ______" without even thinking straight (Phil Donohue, was one of the few public voices who said "hey, wait a minute" and he was promptly fired from MSNBC). Two wars of wasted lives, more destabilisation in the Middle East. It also paved the way for the largely accepted practices of torture (many of the same techniques used by the Chinese communists, the Khmer Rouge and the KGB), "extraordinary rendition," "black sites," and wiretapping. And "outsourcing" torture also: anyone remember Maher Arar? Many US Americans never blinked an eye. A decade later, the US, and the world has not been any better for all that.

This much I can tell say: How Bush and Cheney and large segments of the US reacted to 9/11 was clearly NOT a Buddhist response.

riverflow

A Buddhist isn't supposed to think of politics, so the question is moot.

Those who practice Buddhism ought to be concerned if those politics leads to the suffering of others.

betaboy

A Buddhist isn't supposed to think of politics, so the question is moot.

Those who practice Buddhism ought to be concerned if those politics leads to the suffering of others.

What I am saying is, people will always be hateful and bitter, and find excuses to kill and torture each other, whether through terrorism or in the name of counter-terrorism. So instead of worrying about a degenerate humanity, let's focus on getting out of the cycle of birth and death.

seeker242

"Strike against Terror"
by Thich Nhat Hanh*, November 2002

"Strike against terror" is a misleading expression. What we are striking against is not the real cause or the root of terror. The object of our strike is still human life. We are sowing seeds of violence as we strike. Striking in this way we will only bring about more hatred and violence into the world. This is exactly what we do not want to do.

Terror is in the human heart. We must remove this terror from the heart. Destroying the human heart, both physically and psychologically, is what we must absolutely avoid. The root of terrorism should be identified, so that it can be removed. The root of terrorism is misunderstanding, intolerance, hatred, revenge and hopelessness. This root cannot be located by the military. Bombs and missiles cannot reach it, let alone destroy it. Only with the practice of looking deeply can our insight reveal and identify this root. Only with the practice of deep listening and compassion can it be transformed and removed.

Darkness cannot be dissipated with more darkness. More darkness will make darkness thicker. Only light can dissipate darkness. Violence and hatred cannot be removed with violence and hatred. Rather, this will make violence and hatred grow a thousand fold. Only understanding and compassion can dissolve violence and hatred.

Hatred, and violence are in the hearts of human beings. A terrorist is a human being with hatred, revenge, violence and misunderstanding in his or her heart. Acting without understanding, acting out of hatred, violence and fear, only helps sow more terror, bringing terror to the homes of others and ultimately bringing terror back to the homes of the attacker. The philosophy of "an eye for an eye," only creates more suffering and bloodshed and more enemies. One of the greatest casualties we may suffer results from this wrong thinking and action. Whole societies are living constantly in fear with their nerves being attacked day and night. Such a state of confusion, fear and anxiety is extremely dangerous. It can bring about another world war, this time extremely destructive in the worst possible way.

We must learn to speak out for peace now, so that our spiritual voice can be heard in this dangerous and pivotal moment of history. Those of us who have the light should display the light and offer it so that the world will not sink into total darkness. Everyone has the seed of awakening and insight within his or her heart. Let us help each other touch these seeds in ourselves so that everyone can have the courage to speak out. We must ensure that the way we live our daily lives does not create more terrorism in the world, through intolerance, hatred, revenge and greed. We need a collective awakening to stop this course of self-destruction.

Spiritual leaders in this country need to be invited to raise their voice strongly and speak up for peaceful solutions to the world problems and bring about the awareness of the teaching of compassion and non-violence to the American nation and the people.

By understanding the nature and cause of the suffering of humanity, we will then know the right method to begin to heal the great problems on this planet.

riverflow

So instead of worrying about a degenerate humanity, let's focus on getting out of the cycle of birth and death.

In Mahayana tradition, taking the Bodhisattva vows means one cannot just go about trying to save their own skin and to hell with "degenerate humanity."

http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3001&Itemid=0

riverflow

"Strike against Terror"
by Thich Nhat Hanh

An excellent talk!

"Hatred never ends through hatred.
By Non-hate alone does it end."
~Dhammapada, ch. 1

robot

What about the struggle to over throw the Gaddafi regime in Libya? I can't see how that regime was ever going to give up without a fight. Look at Syria. Should people live under those conditions indefinitely in order to avoid violence? Its not human nature to do so.

seeker242

What about the struggle to over throw the Gaddafi regime in Libya? I can't see how that regime was ever going to give up without a fight. Look at Syria. Should people live under those conditions indefinitely in order to avoid violence? Its not human nature to do so.

Did Gandhi overthrow the British and gain independence for India with violence?

Rev

Can we aid in alleviating the suffering of the terrorist? Can we show him, and thereby teach him, compassion?

vinlyn

Can we aid in alleviating the suffering of the terrorist? Can we show him, and thereby teach him, compassion?

Please, go try. Come back and tell us how that works out.

riverflow

Well, the problem is that we have a tendency to ignore problems, let them fester until the only thing that is left is damage control, and not very good damage control, leading to further problems. Prevention is what matters, but that requires that we look at the conditions that led to terrorism.

If, or example, you look at the long history of the US government and corporations meddling in the affairs of other countries (Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chile and many other countries) for their own gain, you know that terrorism doesn't just spring out of nowhere. 9/11 didn't have to happen.

Don't forget, the CIA trained Osama bin Laden, and we were allies with Iraq (and helped supply chemicals which he used on the Kurds) because Saddam Hussein was against Iran, and we were once allies with the Taliban only because first, they were opposed to the Soviets, and also because they were against drug trade. The US has helped to create its own enemies.

I_AM_THAT

You have to question the agenda of the US foreign policies, many of which have come back to bite the US in the ass. You also need to understand the agenda of the terrorists. Most of the world agendas are based on greed and power. Would the world be a different place if the world powers would use their power and resources for the betterment of man instead of creating huge profits for the few? The US and most of the world are controlled by fewer then 5% of the total population; what does that say about having true freedoms?

As a buddhist all one can do is control yourself, your actions, your thoughts, and take full responsibility for those actions and those thoughts. With our combined consciousness we can begin the shift of the world out of darkness and back into the light.

Cinorjer

Our response as Buddhists? To do what we can to help others, whatever individual form that takes in your situation.

As Buddhists, we don't have to wonder why people kill each other, and try to figure out if the particular motive in this case is revenge or profit or religion. We don't have to argue about who started it, or divide the world into evil and rightious. We know what the problem is. We know what the problem has always been and is today and will always be:

"People suffer because they're addicted to their selfish desires."

As Buddhists, you don't have to choose sides in some holy war. It's not good versus evil so pick up a gun and start shooting the bad guys. That's the old tried and failed solution throughout history. As Buddhists you must know people are just people everywhere. People always justify their hate and do terrible things to each other in the name of justice.

So help everyone, when you can and however you can. The cycle of hate and revenge and killing didn't start Sep 11, and it didn't end when we killed Ben Laden.

riverflow

vinlyn

You have to question the agenda of the US foreign policies, many of which have come back to bite the US in the ass. You also need to understand the agenda of the terrorists. Most of the world agendas are based on greed and power. Would the world be a different place if the world powers would use their power and resources for the betterment of man instead of creating huge profits for the few? The US and most of the world are controlled by fewer then 5% of the total population; what does that say about having true freedoms?

As a buddhist all one can do is control yourself, your actions, your thoughts, and take full responsibility for those actions and those thoughts. With our combined consciousness we can begin the shift of the world out of darkness and back into the light.

All good points. But I think you also have to ask when do the people of those other nations begin to be responsible for the well-being of their own people. When I was a little boy I remember the t.v. ads for sending CARE packages to Africa. When I was a teenager we had a foreign exchange student from Kenya and we made contributions to some efforts in Kenya. This year the Methodist Church in my neighborhood is highlighting aid to Kenya. Aid groups are begging for funds to save people in Somalia. Nearly 60 years have gone by since I was that little kid watching t.v. ads to send those CARE packages, and not much has changed in the continent with the world's richest resources -- Africa. I still give occasionally to African charities, but I'm beginning to wonder why they don't make some changes in their own countries over 6 decades to more effectively address the issues that cause their suffering. Instead it's international organizations that are trying to wipe out malaria and dengue fever and cholera, feed the poor, and provide sanitary living conditions. I just saw a short documentary/plea a few weeks ago and they were asking for help to install the first toilet in an African village. You mean that in 2011 there's an African village/nation that can't afford a single toilet in that town?

riverflow

I still give occasionally to African charities, but I'm beginning to wonder why they don't make some changes in their own countries over 6 decades to more effectively address the issues that cause their suffering.

Those changes probably aren't happening because the dictators have an army of organized thugs with automatic weapons (and where do these dictators get their weapons from, anyway?).

caz

Our response as Buddhists? To do what we can to help others, whatever individual form that takes in your situation.

As Buddhists, we don't have to wonder why people kill each other, and try to figure out if the particular motive in this case is revenge or profit or religion. We don't have to argue about who started it, or divide the world into evil and rightious. We know what the problem is. We know what the problem has always been and is today and will always be:

"People suffer because they're addicted to their selfish desires."

As Buddhists, you don't have to choose sides in some holy war. It's not good versus evil so pick up a gun and start shooting the bad guys. That's the old tried and failed solution throughout history. As Buddhists you must know people are just people everywhere. People always justify their hate and do terrible things to each other in the name of justice.

So help everyone, when you can and however you can. The cycle of hate and revenge and killing didn't start Sep 11, and it didn't end when we killed Ben Laden.

Well spoken !

vixthenomad

@Cinorjer...

^^What he said.

vinlyn

I still give occasionally to African charities, but I'm beginning to wonder why they don't make some changes in their own countries over 6 decades to more effectively address the issues that cause their suffering.

Those changes probably aren't happening because the dictators have an army of organized thugs with automatic weapons (and where do these dictators get their weapons from, anyway?).

You can cloud the basic issue all you want with various side issues. Even then, it;s THEIR country, and mostly THEIR responsibility.

riverflow

So if you were some poor chump living in Somalia, how do you fix the problem of the warlords that rule the roost there? Petition them and say "Pardon me, Mr. Warlord, I really don't like the way you're running things"? Somehow, I don't think he'll be coming back home to the wife and kids alive.

That's not a side issue, THE very issue itself. In some places you're lucky to get a foothold on the bare bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of needs in such an environment. The whole populations of these countries won't be having a miraculous revolution in imitation of the US American Revolution under such conditions.

vinlyn

So if you were some poor chump living in Somalia, how do you fix the problem of the warlords that rule the roost there? Petition them and say "Pardon me, Mr. Warlord, I really don't like the way you're running things"? Somehow, I don't think he'll be coming back home to the wife and kids alive.

That's not a side issue, THE very issue itself. In some places you're lucky to get a foothold on the bare bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of needs in such an environment. The whole populations of these countries won't be having a miraculous revolution in imitation of the US American Revolution under such conditions.

I don't have the answer. But half a decade (or more) of much of a continent wallowing in poverty despite all the humanitarian aide also hasn't solved the problem has it. Grade to all that aide -- F. The people are no better able to take care of themselves.

riverflow

Oh, I agree-- humanitarian aid is really just damage control, long after the worst has already taken place. It can't solve anything because poverty part of a much larger problem (rooted in a long, long history of exploitation by the west-- and that still continues today to some extent) that humanitarian aid can't fix.

Tin pot dictators propped up by western governments and supplying them with various arms has only exacerbated the situation, pretty much assuring that might makes right. As long as the west continues to turn a blind eye to a disaster we helped to create, then yes, humanitarian aid is like giving a band aid to someone whose legs have just been blown off.

GuyC

hi jll,

"As a Buddhist, what should be our response to terrorism?"

As Buddhists, we should refrain from terrorism.

The Buddha gave the gift of fearlessness, which is the exact opposite of terrorism. Give the gift of fearlessness by keeping the five precepts so that other beings do not have to be afraid of you.

We cannot control the evil actions of others, but we do have some influence over our own actions, so we should purify those first.

Metta,

Guy

Mountains

Nope.
...Richard gere made the same observation, at the time, just hours after the incident.
His message ws of course, spot on.
His timing was of course, deplorable.

I think his timing was spot on the money. But of course he became a pariah because he's a Liberal in America and he has a heart. Not desirable qualities in America since 2001 I'm afraid.

I_AM_THAT

I thought that this was a well written article...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bj-gallagher/what-would-buddha-do-terrorism_b_952615.html?ref=buddhism

riverflow

I think the more important question is not how to respond to terrorism but how to prevent the myriad conditions that give rise to terrorism in the first place. Its the question most people didn't bother asking in the months and years after 9/11. No lessons learned.

Dakini

I dunno... The Dalai Lama had some pretty wild things to say after the incident in NY, along the lines that the US should strike back.

Just saying...he's a Buddhist, and that was his response. If I can find it, I'll post the link. His thinking was probably that in order to prevent further mass suffering (i.e. more incidents of a similar kind), the US needed to go on the offensive. That "higher good" principle in relation to the precepts. Though he didn't explain his rationale for his view.

GuyC

I dunno... The Dalai Lama had some pretty wild things to say after the incident in NY, along the lines that the US should strike back.

If this is true, I'm afraid I'm going to have disagree with the Dalai Lama on this one.

riverflow

I seem to recall hearing something about this-- it was a fairly recent talk at UCLA I think. But I think what he was saying may have been a bit more nuanced that that too.

riverflow

Here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lewis-richmond/dalai-lama-osama_b_871378.html

ddrishi

Terroism is a coin with two sides. A buddhist must also see the side which Governments do not see or do not wish to see.

Theswingisyellow

How is this any different (our terroris issue) from any other clash in history? They want power, we want power so we engage in this bloodletting ritual called war. My ethics say I shouldn't murder people, simply because a government or some crazy religious zealot says its ok to murder, doesn't make it ok. It's about power, greed and the superorganism you are a part of. You are like a little cell in this superorganism, easily made and just as easily expendable.

vinlyn

How is this any different (our terroris issue) from any other clash in history? They want power, we want power so we engage in this bloodletting ritual called war. My ethics say I shouldn't murder people, simply because a government or some crazy religious zealot says its ok to murder, doesn't make it ok. It's about power, greed and the superorganism you are a part of. You are like a little cell in this superorganism, easily made and just as easily expendable.

Are you saying we should surrender to terrorism?

jll

talk about a loaded question. 'surrender'.
how do you surrender if you dont have an enemy?

How is this any different (our terroris issue) from any other clash in history? They want power, we want power so we engage in this bloodletting ritual called war. My ethics say I shouldn't murder people, simply because a government or some crazy religious zealot says its ok to murder, doesn't make it ok. It's about power, greed and the superorganism you are a part of. You are like a little cell in this superorganism, easily made and just as easily expendable.

Are you saying we should surrender to terrorism?

Cinorjer

"terrorism" is a method used in war, not something that can be fought. Saying a "war on terrorism" is like saying we've declared war on sneak attacks. How do you win such a war? It's like saying we've declared war on murder. You can't win, because there's always going to be people who are willing to kill just because they hate, and intelligent enough to sneak around planting bombs and such instead of marching around declaring their intentions.

So it's an excuse for a perpetual state of warfare.

Terrorism should be treated like a crime, now as in the past, not some shadowy secret super agency like something out of a James Bond movie.

caz

I dunno... The Dalai Lama had some pretty wild things to say after the incident in NY, along the lines that the US should strike back.

Just saying...he's a Buddhist, and that was his response. If I can find it, I'll post the link. His thinking was probably that in order to prevent further mass suffering (i.e. more incidents of a similar kind), the US needed to go on the offensive. That "higher good" principle in relation to the precepts. Though he didn't explain his rationale for his view.

Lets consider the Dalai lama was not adversed to setting up a armed resistence back in tibet so is his response hardly suprising ?

Dakini

Right, caz. Still, it surprised people who thought of him as a man of peace.
@Riverflow I wasn't referring to his relatively recent speech at UCLA. He made a statement right after 9/11. I think it was in a letter to Pres. Bush, and he said a strong response was called for. But he also made a public statement not long after that. As I recall, what happened after he made the controversial statement at UCLA, his assistants back in Dharamsala issued an explanatory statement that soft-pedaled the meaning of HHDL's words. It seems that occasionally, he speaks a bit too extemporaneously.

I can see, though, how one could think that a pre-emptive (or "post-emptive") strike on terrorists might serve the greater good of making the world safe for the rest of humanity. Would that life were that simple!

Theswingisyellow

How is this any different (our terroris issue) from any other clash in history? They want power, we want power so we engage in this bloodletting ritual called war. My ethics say I shouldn't murder people, simply because a government or some crazy religious zealot says its ok to murder, doesn't make it ok. It's about power, greed and the superorganism you are a part of. You are like a little cell in this superorganism, easily made and just as easily expendable.

Are you saying we should surrender to terrorism?

We evolved from animals, so we are animals. Our response is one of self preservation, us vs. them. It's about my tribe, my ideas and anyone outside of that can be killed. I don't think our reactivity after 9/11 was helpful in the slightest. We fought it like we we fighting the cold war with massed troops and armor, we didn't fight it very smartly. I just refuse to act like that this is anything more than what war has always been; murder. Murder for power, real estate and the predominance of one's cultural ideas.

vinlyn

How is this any different (our terroris issue) from any other clash in history? They want power, we want power so we engage in this bloodletting ritual called war. My ethics say I shouldn't murder people, simply because a government or some crazy religious zealot says its ok to murder, doesn't make it ok. It's about power, greed and the superorganism you are a part of. You are like a little cell in this superorganism, easily made and just as easily expendable.

Are you saying we should surrender to terrorism?

We evolved from animals, so we are animals. Our response is one of self preservation, us vs. them. It's about my tribe, my ideas and anyone outside of that can be killed. I don't think our reactivity after 9/11 was helpful in the slightest. We fought it like we we fighting the cold war with massed troops and armor, we didn't fight it very smartly. I just refuse to act like that this is anything more than what war has always been; murder. Murder for power, real estate and the predominance of one's cultural ideas.

Words. No solution.

Theswingisyellow

"Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius"
-Arnaud-Amaury
It seems that's all we can do.

Theswingisyellow

The people in charge of this country are not Buddhist and as such their decisions were predicated on other ideas and beliefs. We are 10 years into this thing and what we did decide to do, over the last 10 years, has for the most part not been successful. We chose war, but again fought it in a half-ass way. How do you beat an insurgency/guerrilla warfare? The best decision is to not engage your forces in such a war, beating insugencies historically shows a very poor record. It is almost never done. The Soviet Union fought in Afghanistan for 10 years, lost and left. One can imagine the harshness of the tactics they employed without cameras & embedded journalist and were still not able to attain a good outcome for themselves. So we chose to fight those who engage in guerrilla warfare. What should we do? Exterminate them, that's how you win at this. Go old school, decimate the population, leave them nothing, turn their country into a wasteland or don't bother because we could be doing what we are doing for another 10 years and have the same result we have now. Warfare is nothing but killing and destruction so either do it well and be done with it or next time weigh whether you want to pay that kind of price for your ideals.

vinlyn

The people in charge of this country are not Buddhist and as such their decisions were predicated on other ideas and beliefs...

To me, this statement seems a bit naive.

Thailand is 95% Buddhist, including all their leaders going waaaaaaaaaaay back. They fought frequent wars with Burma and the Khmer (Cambodians), not to mention many wars between various Thai factions before the country was unified.

What's happening in Buddhist Burma today?

Majority Buddhist Cambodia killed more than half of its own people in the genocidal killing fields.

Having a Buddhist government does virtually nothing to ensure anything different than a non-Buddhist government in terms of wars.

Theswingisyellow

You said "Words. No solution" Well I gave you a solution. As to it being a Buddhist government I am not that stupid to think that having said government would somehow be some sort magical answer but it does address "As a Buddhist, what should be our response to terrorism" we'll buddhist weren't in charge, it's after the fact and I guess now moot as we are in the situation we are now in. People will kill people, I don't care what religion they claim.
What do you think of my solution?
All the best,
Todd

abashi

@The swing is yellow

Effectiveness is pretty important. Scary as it sounds, the all-out approach may save more people suffering. I admire America, nonetheless, for not choosing to do that. Skillful means does not equal ends-justify-means, and there ARE innocents in Afghanistan... and unless you are defining 'people' (in your statement, 'people will kill people') in a limited way, I'd like to ask if you don't think that we are capable of envisioning an alternative situation where people did not simply by nature kill? Perpetuating the cycle of violence can be avoided through a final violence, you suggest? I think that sort of thing just sets a bad precedent (of which there are too many, already), and is more likely to escalate the response; two-edged knife.

You are perfectly right about the Russians in Afghanistan. Of course, had they not been there, the Taliban would not have grown strong. Maybe it is like using too many strong antibiotics? Perhaps in the present all that needs to be achieved in Afghanistan, even if this is costly, is the subduing and incapacitating of the enemy (the Russians came to conquer). To use another metaphor, maybe the real war might be in treating the problem, and not its symptoms... and again, I admire the cultural initiatives America has attempted. Killing should really be kept within the bounds of self-defense? Again, you might be thinking, that a good defense is offensive. I don't know if I disagree... but there a lot of options, really, and a lot of them are being tried, right now. No need to be impatient.

Sorry if I sound sure of myself-- I am trying to engage your thought.

Best,
abashi

Theswingisyellow

I don't believe war is anything more than our primitive brain engaging in an us vs. them mentality. War is pure killing. I ask that if a nation decides to go to war, is that decision supported by its ethical and moral outlook? Is one willing to kill everybody in that country for the sake of ones ideals? Maybe I am asking that the bar to go to war be set much higher. Maybe I was being a bit too toungue-in-cheek in my earlier response.
All the best,
Todd

vinlyn

Todd, I still don't see where you've offered a solution. To me you just keep saying you don't like or approve of war. That's not a solution.

And, keep in mind that after 9/11, the US didn't just nuke Afghanistan or any other country. Yes, we went to war...very selectively.

abashi

I see, @Todd. Missed that.-a