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Taoism better than Buddhism?
betaboy
Veteran
Because Taoism doesn't have too many rules - and rules create a lot of anxiety (especially the buddhist ones, which are hard to follow). Taoism is all about letting go.
BB
BB
0
Comments
I speak from an established Zen (Ch'an) tradition.
In Buddhism, we don't have rules to create anxiety, just. We have rules to squeeze the ego, to allow sincere and genuine students to really see what it is that they are holding onto and operating via, it is to enable us to address the root causes of suffering i.e. the realms of egosim. It is therefore, no joke and not a particularly easy feat. But it is also within that context, that sincere and determined genuine students can and will have the opportunity to see themself - and through this seeing, allow them to join the path of transcendental knowing ie the path of Dharma and genuine liberation.
It is because of this we have rules, and we have systems set in place. But these are not yet the true nectar of practice. That takes time, and energy, focus and genuine sincere determination. Sometimes it hurts, sometimes its wonderful. But we always keep on going, if freedom is our goal.
That said, I will not say the Buddha Way is for everyone and some people can also get lost even here. Which is why I encourage students to seek genuine guidance, if they can find it.
I have some exposure to Taoism but I believe it is ultimately a different system and context and Buddhism, the path of genuine liberation and freedom, just suits me much much more.
Best wishes,
Abu
Buddha simply offered an explanation and method to guide us to gain insight into the nature of reality and deeper understanding that would lead us away from unnecessary clinging and suffering in the world.
I think your view of buddhism is skewed from growing up in a judeo-christian culture.
There are no rules in buddhism. If you want to take up on the precepts, then take them as your moral and ethical guidance to protect yourself from straying away from the spiritual path.
Buddhists take on the precepts because they want to, not because of fear or anxiety.
The nagging problem I found with Daoism was this: first off, I was interested in the Daodejing (and Zhaungzi, to a lesser extent) without the alchemy and stuff about immortality, etc. But also, as much as Dao fascinated me, and wu wei ("non-action") and so on, I never understood HOW that happened. Exactly HOW does one learn wu wei? What I wanted was some way to learn that, rather than just accept platitudes of "just be."
At the same time, I didn't really bother to investigate Buddhism much back then due to some negative stereotypes and misunderstandings. They were just prejudices really. There is this very wrongheaded notion also that "Daoism + Buddhism = Zen Buddhism" (Ray Griggs is one who has spouted such uninformed nonsense-- and for a long time I bought into it). The relationship between the two is far more subtle and complex than that-- Daoism is certainly NOT "Zen minus the Buddhism part."
HOW do you "let go?" The Daodejing nor Zhuangzi really gets to that, whereas Buddhism does-- in fact, it provides several different approaches-- a virtual Buddhist buffet of methods and skilful means. Daoism leaves me nothing to sink my teeth into except for some nice platitudes and some cool ideas. But no application or instruction, except for alchemy and immortality and that sort of thing. Buddhism is rich with complexity, but it isn't complicated.
"Rules" don't create anxiety. We create anxiety in our minds.
I've always met anxious Buddhists. And some very relaxed Buddhists. But I venture to suggest that the anxiety is coming from your mind, not from an belief system.
I think people have misunderstood, so let me explain. In Buddhism, there are too many rules for living - right speech, right action, right this, right that. Too many rules for meditation - watching the breath, not getting distracted etc.. Too many rules for practically everything, too many confusing ideas on karma, rebirth, whatever.
Taoism doesn't have this problem - it is more practical, avoids speculation and ideas, no questions/answers, no formal training or rigorous discipline, just living each moment blissfully.
This is what I meant. Again, sorry for the misunderstanding.
It doesnt lead to liberation of the mind or unbinding from suffering. Practicality is through recognising what is virtuous and conduceive to happiness now and in the future a disciplined and virtuous mind is the cause of this not some " new age " Idea of living in the moment.
Just MVHO. Your mileage may vary.
It is a fundamental aspect of Buddhism.
like Mount Wudang in china.
If you check out how they practise Daoism,
you will be quite surprised how many rules they have.
It probably also sounds more appealing because, as @jll points out, most REAL Daoist temples and practitioners are far removed from western eyes. It makes it easier to fantasise about Daoist recluses contemplating the Dao or what have you. Reading the Daodejing without the context of its religious believers, you get a romantically skewered view of what Daoism is supposed to be. It isn't about "living each moment blissfully."
to win or lose you don't care. you're there because circumstance has set you there.
now play.
a man who accepts both winning and losing is a man who always wins.
i like taoism because it describes flow, which is a natural consequence of buddhist practice.
this is like asking someone if chicago style is better than ny style pizza.
people going to be mad. people going to not care. people going to just be happy.
Letting go? You mean, like the gurus who run amok, having sex with their followers, drinking, partying (some of them), etc.? We could do with a lot less of that sort of "letting go".
Buddhism is more specific about "letting go", it's about non-attachment (another word for "letting go", BB) to ego, to materialism, to preconceived notions of reality, and so forth. In my studies of Taoism (admittedly, not too extensive), I've found very little difference between Buddhism and Taoism. Letting go requires guidelines if chaos and mayhem are to be averted. That's just good old-fashioned wisdom, the kind Buddhism specializes in. I can't imagine that Taoism can be boiled down to one simple platitude of "letting go". There's gotta be more to it than that, and I think you've misunderstood Buddhism, too. Back to the drawing board...
P.S. No tradition is "better" than another. As the Dalai Lama has observed countless times, they all have the same basic value of kindness, goodness, but with different packaging to suit different cultures and personalities.
I don't mean that in a Catholic guilt trippin sense.
and this, in chinese only.but you can still enjoy the video.
If you mean Taoism the religion as what is practiced in Mount Wudang for example, then it is very complicated. I think it has as many sutras and rules as Chinese Buddhism, if not more. It even has ranking of 36 heavenly caves and 72 lands (I do not know how to translate this) around China, I come across them occasionally when travelling in China. For the traditional chinese at least, the final aim of Taoism the religion is to Fei Sheng Cheng Xian (become a deity). While in modern time it is more well known for its martial art. Nothing is simple about these.
But once you learn, you have freedom. Then, as you drive, its very natural and simple. You understand the framework and just go.
Your Taoism sentiments seem like excuses and "I don't wannas." Do or do not, its fine with me! The practice you're saying has "lots of rules" isn't too much to learn, and leads to freedom and buoyant joyfulness. In my opinion, its worth learning, worth letting go of the complaining to understand the view.
My son did the same thing when he started swimming. "Its too hard, I just want to dog paddle." Now, after investing the time to learn, he is accomplished and loves to swim far more than he did before.
With warmth,
Matt
And the follow-up is worse, assuming that common decency and proper behavior (as in 8FP) are "rules" that are too many or too tough to follow....
How would an actual buddhist teacher react to this situation?
So betaboy is not ready for the "rules" and complex teachings. That is OK. That is where he is. He should commit to his path for as long as it satisfies him, whilst being open to new possibilities (no pun intended). Sometimes we need to try our own way, even invent new ones, before we can understand the wisdom of other people's teachings.
Or something like that.
Sorry @Betaboy! My response was worded a bit harsh. One bit of advice: the better the question the better (typically) the answers.
Also, the Buddhist 'rules' are just guidelines. You don't have to follow them, it's just that a lot of people have been doing this for a long time, and so they have worked out what tends to work best. Do you know better than them?
It sounds like you think something is better because it is easier? But many times the best things in life you have to work very hard for -- the hard work is what makes the eventual reward greater.
I wish you the best on your journey.
Namaste
Many aspects of Toaism and Confucism help the propagation of Buddhism greatly in China and throughout Asia.
However, if you truly studied Buddhism, you've know it's the whole deal, so why study something else when your already a step into the Dharma Gate?
If I want to successfully get a master degree in medicine, I probably shouldn't dabble in structural engineering papers if I want to pass and get my degree.
http://media.audiodharma.org/mp3files/2003-08-07_GilFronsdal_Ethics.mp3
http://media.audiodharma.org/mp3files/2005-10-03_GilFronsdal_FivePrecepts.mp3
In addition there are many,many rules pertaining to body strengthening and internal energy cultivation.
And Daoist meditaion like the microcosmic orbit in which accupressure points , breathing methods ,synchronization of internal organs with planets and internal sounds are used, make watching the in and out breath the essence of simplicity.
The Tao de Ching extolls a beautiful philosophy, but it is not the sum of all Daoism,more like the flower.