Zen Buddhists? .......x

minimayhen88

Dearest all,

In the Zen Buddhist tradition, what vows can you take? Can the five (lay) precepts be taken as vows? And how is such a vow broken?

Kindly,

I am doing research on the topic, and all answers would be highly valued

Floating_Abu

Shujo mu hen sei gan do
The many beings are numberless, I vow to save them;
Bonno mu jin sei gan dan
Greed, hatred, and ignorance rise endlessly, I vow to abandon them;
Ho mon mu ryo sei gan gaku
Dharma gates are countless, I vow to wake to them;
Butsu do mu jo sei gan jo
The Buddha's way is unsurpassed, I vow to embody it fully.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/mzb/mzb01.htm
http://www.ciolek.com/WWWVLPages/ZenPages/Daily-Zen-Sutras.html#VOWS

The only way you can ever understand your topic is by doing the practice. Anything else is purely superficial and that is OK, but just overly common. Go for the Gold instead.

Best wishes,
Abu

Cinorjer

I can only speak to what I know, which is a school of Korean Zen called Kwan Um. All Zen schools, however, use some variation of the 16 Bodhisattva Precepts and the Four great Bodhisattva vows.

The standard 5 lay precepts can be officially taken after a few minor conditions are met (attend so many days of meditation retreats, etc.) and to receive Inka authority -- authorization to teach at the centers -- one must upgrade to 10 precepts, and finally a few senior Dharma teachers go on to take the entire 16. A good summary of the precept vow structure can be found at http://zencenteroflasvegas.com/Precepts.html

How are they broken? You mean what official procedure exits for a member of the Sangha to be brought to some sort of trial, or what actions constitute breaking the vows? Either way, that's not how we focus our practice. In Zen we keep the precepts without being bound by them. Let me illustrate.

Recently I read an article where a man had a big problem. His religion forbade him to travel outside his home on their holy day, no matter what. Long ago, his religious authorities came up with a solution. They stretched a long string on poles around the entire community, and declared that anyplace inside the unbroken circle was home. So people were able to visit each other and go to the local store and so forth. But one day someone noticed the string had broke high up on a pole. This man complained that he could not travel outside his home to even buy milk for his thirsty baby until someone fixed the string! This man was bound by his rules.

For us, compassion and clear mind is the focus, not keeping a personal set of rules no matter what. Focus on the situation, not the rules. Yes, rules are important, but not as important as doing the right thing. The minute you put your desire to keep all the rules everywhere and no matter what over simply acting with compassion and doing the right thing, you lose clear mind. So usually the 5 lay vows are a good guide to judge your behavior. But once in a while, the correct thing means breaking a vow.

I hope this gets you started on your answers.

Yishai

A vow is broken when you act in opposition to the vow. There is no punishment. The vow is to yourself for the most part. Monastically, I imagine that if you were in a forest monastery and you were sleeping with women, that you would be told to disrobe and return to laity. Although I have zero experience in this subject

seeker242

THE SIXTEEN BODHISATTVA PRECEPTS

The Threefold Refuge

I take refuge in Buddha (the principle of enlightenment within).

I take refuge in dharma (the enlightened way of understanding and living).

I take refuge in sangha (the community of beings).

Pure Precepts

I vow to avoid all action that creates suffering

I vow to do all action that creates true happiness.

I vow to act with others always in mind.

Grave Precepts

Not to kill but to nurture life.

Not to steal but to receive what is offered as a gift.

Not to misuse sexuality but to be caring and faithful in intimate relationships.

Not to lie but to be truthful.

Not to intoxicate with substances or doctrines but to promote clarity and awareness.

Not to speak of others' faults but to speak out of loving-kindness.

Not to praise self at the expense of others but to be modest.

Not to be possessive of anything but to be generous.

Not to harbor anger but to forgive.

Not to do anything to diminish the Triple Treasure but to support and nurture it.


How a vow is broken is by doing something that is contradictory to the vow. for example, the vow against killing is broken when you kill. The vow against stealing is broken when you steal, etc, etc.

genkaku

Sometimes I think the best way to keep your vows is to be mindful of the fact that you cannot escape breaking them.

daemyo

@genkaku, Thanks for that. You've helped me today.

zenff

Dearest all,

In the Zen Buddhist tradition, what vows can you take? Can the five (lay) precepts be taken as vows? And how is such a vow broken?

Kindly,

I am doing research on the topic, and all answers would be highly valued

At some point I took the ten precepts.
When I googled them (to find out what again they are!) I found this discussion on Newbuddhist.com

http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/7819/10-precepts-of-zen/p1

There’s a Lao Tzu quote about virtue and about precepts. I think he says virtue appears when the Dao is lost. I think I agree.

There’s something underneath the precepts; it is compassion (including compassion for one-self) integrity, sincerity, something natural. Love if you like, but I think it that word makes it seem like we’re all hippies.

MindGate

Shujo mu hen sei gan do
The many beings are numberless, I vow to save them;
Bonno mu jin sei gan dan
Greed, hatred, and ignorance rise endlessly, I vow to abandon them;
Ho mon mu ryo sei gan gaku
Dharma gates are countless, I vow to wake to them;
Butsu do mu jo sei gan jo
The Buddha's way is unsurpassed, I vow to embody it fully.

In "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind," I believe the writer claims one of the vows are "Even though enlightenment is unobtainable, I vow to obtain it." Is that equal/a different translation of the last one that you posted?

Cinorjer

There are many slight variations on the great Bodhisattva vows, as each person translates the vows into their own understanding and practice. It's how it should be, as long as the structure that gives it power remains: a statement of how something is impossible followed by a vow to do it, anyway.

Floating_Abu

Shujo mu hen sei gan do
The many beings are numberless, I vow to save them;
Bonno mu jin sei gan dan
Greed, hatred, and ignorance rise endlessly, I vow to abandon them;
Ho mon mu ryo sei gan gaku
Dharma gates are countless, I vow to wake to them;
Butsu do mu jo sei gan jo
The Buddha's way is unsurpassed, I vow to embody it fully.

In "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind," I believe the writer claims one of the vows are "Even though enlightenment is unobtainable, I vow to obtain it." Is that equal/a different translation of the last one that you posted?

Hi Mind

The last vow is -

佛道無上誓願成

And the actual translation of the last one is comparable to the one I posted
ie. The Buddha's way is unsurpassed, I vow to embody it fully.
or I vow to complete/master it so I would say the above is more aligned

Perhaps ZMBM was referring to a different vow as we have quite some also in Buddhism

Best wishes,
Abu