Triple Gem or Quadruple Gem Refuge Vow?

Dakini

Here's a question for those of you who have taken the Refuge Vow, or who are seriously considering it and have read the vow offered in your sangha. In my observation, the typical vow is to take refuge in the "Three Jewels": the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha. However, some say there's a "fourth refuge": the teacher or guru, and that some (most?) vows include taking refuge in one's guide, master, lama, however it may be phrased.

I'd like to take a poll of those who have taken the vow, or who are at least familiar with it as offered in their sangha or other sanghas. It's news to me that there is a "fourth refuge". That would mean there are Four Jewels, not Three. I suppose this is mainly intended for Mahayana practitioners, but Theravada practitioners can share their refuge vow experiences, too. Thank you.

ThailandTom

I have not taken the , but I guess I should as from what I have come to know from the tibeten side of things, is that to take refuge in the three jewels you first must understand the two truths so you are in a position to go on and fully understand the four noble truths, then you are ready to take refuge in the three jewels.

person

I practice TB and often the refuge prayer starts with refuge to the guru. In my official refuge ceremony though it was just the three jewels. I don't know any more than that.

dorje

According to what I know there are only the three jewels. The guru is seen as the jewel box.

federica

According to what I have learnt, you put your trust in nobody but the Triple gem. Gurus are flawed human beings. The triple gem is pretty infallible....

Jeffrey

The guru symbolizes the three. Because they have established the mind of awakening (buddha), they know the teachings (dharma), and they embody the teachings (sangha).

Dakini I think your issue is with failed gurus

caz

There is no fourth as Dorje said the Guru is like the jewel box. I should add a fully qualified spiritual guide is like such.

Dakini

@Jeffrey Fear not, there is no hidden agenda behind my OP. It's a sincere attempt to clarify an issue that came up here week or so ago, when one member insisted that taking refuge in the guru was a requirement in TB.I'd never heard of it, but on another forum someone quoted what they said was standard vow: "I take refuge in my gurus, I take refugein the BUddha, I take refuge in the Dharma, I take refuge in the Sangha". So I decided to investigate.

But I know from my own experience that vows vary in a number of respects from one sect to another, according to sub-sect, etc. Anyway, I thought it would be an interesting and fun poll to take.

According to what I have learnt, you put your trust in nobody but the Triple gem. Gurus are flawed human beings. The triple gem is pretty infallible....

I think this is a wise approach to take. The jewel box idea is interesting, and also new to me. Thank you all, I'm looking forward to more responses.

Jeffrey

The guru represents the living connection to the lineage. Interconnectivity going all the way to buddha. Ever notice how certain types of people flock together? It is because they share some of the same qualities and vibe. By meeting sanghamates you pick up a vibe. Now a guru is a realized practitioner. If they are from a lineage then that means that their teacher approved them to teach,, their dharma.

For this reason the guru is related to refuge. The guru is a powerful person in the mandala of interconnectivity radiating out from awakened mind in a real and not theoretical universe.... all the way to your front door.

compassionate_warrior

Here's some interesting info on comparative refuge vows:
http://www.101zenstories.org/refuge-vow/ This includes Tibetan and Theravada vows.

Here's a little more info that may help clarify the question from a Tibetan perspective:
Geshe Tenzin Deyang says, "There are different ways in reciting the verses of taking refuge. Usually we recite "I take refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha", but in some Tibetan texts, the refuge verses start with the Guru ... This is a unique tibetan style of taking refuge."

That said, my experience is with the basic Triple Gem. I haven't encountered this "unique Tibetan style" of adding a fourth gem. I think "person" may be onto something when he says the vows recited during prayers are in one form (for some sects or sanghas), while the actual ceremony is probably most often with the classic Three Jewels. Judging by Geshe Deyang's statement, as well as by the experience of most members here so far, the refuge vow with an extra gem is far from universal in the Tibetan tradition. Although Jeffrey makes some pretty good arguments for including the guru in the vow.

Mani

I think in general one takes refuge in the three jewels, but In Vajrayana one must add the fourth jewel and take refuge in the Guru as well. I worded it this way, because one may practice Buddhism in a Tibetan Tradition from the aspect of Sutra, and one takes refuge in the three jewels. But some practice in a Tibetan tradition from the aspect of Tantra or Vajrayana. In order to practice Vajrayana, one must first receive an empowerment from a Guru who hold the transmission for the particular practice of that lineage. At this point, one also takes refuge in the Guru because in Vajrayana the blessings come through the lineage by way of the Guru, transmission, empowerment and so-forth. If one hasn't received an empowerment, then they are not really practicing Vajrayana, and there is no refuge taken in the Guru.

Just to confuse things even more, it is good to point out that especially in Vajrayana, we should also take ultimate refuge in the true nature of our minds, the dharmakaya

Mani

compassionate_warrior

Just to confuse things even more,

This actually clarifies the issue, if my understanding is correct. Are you saying that in guru yoga, one takes refuge in the guru? That makes a lot of sense. But at the more elementary levels of Tibetan Buddhist practice, taking refuge in the guru wouldn't be necessary, or particularly relevant. Whether or not it works out so sensibly and neatly in practice, I don't know. There's probably still some variation between sects.

BloodyCactus

well, I go to a TB place, and when I took refuge there it was just the 3 jewels. We had this weekend, 80 year old Khenchen Rinpoche visit at natural bridge in va, and there was mention of guru as the fourth, but it didnt come across as officially part of it (he spoke through an interpreter for over an hour for the refuge ceremnony we had on the saturday).. well he talked of a LOT of things. he seems very 'old school' style tho. Maybe it depends on the time, place, monk, translator

Mani

Just to confuse things even more,

This actually clarifies the issue, if my understanding is correct. Are you saying that in guru yoga, one takes refuge in the guru? That makes a lot of sense. But at the more elementary levels of Tibetan Buddhist practice, taking refuge in the guru wouldn't be necessary, or particularly relevant. Whether or not it works out so sensibly and neatly in practice, I don't know. There's probably still some variation between sects.

Well...in a roundabout way I suppose yes. "yoga" means "union". the guru us the embodiment of the 3 kaya's, so we are trying to merge our body, speech and mind with the enlightened body, speech and mind of the guru and receive blessings. Of course there is much more to it, but...that is the essence.