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Amnesty International wants Canada to arrest Bush

Comments

  • Amnesty International can want all it wants... not gonna happen
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    It's nice to think that someone is thinking about it ... even if it never happens.
  • Germany has had an arrest warrant out for Dick Cheney I think it is, since the Bush Administration. Cheney had to (and still has to) avoid going to Germany since that warrant was made.
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    Good luck in that.
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    guess hes above the law
  • It's good for international human rights bodies to take a stand like this. AI and especially the UN Human Rights orgs are international standard setters for human rights norms. So just the fact of taking a public stand sends a strong message to the world, not to mention the individuals cited.
  • Amnesty International wants Canada to arrest Bush
    It ain't just Amnesty International that wants Bush (and Cheney, and Rumsfeld, and about a dozen others) arrested. Put me on that list, waaaay up at the top.
  • guess hes above the law
    If you don't believe it, just ask him.
  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran
    Canada brushed off Amnesty International's call Wednesday to arrest former U.S. President George W. Bush for human rights abuse, saying the organization was engaging in cheap stunts.

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Canada-Amnesty-Bush-arrest/2011/10/12/id/414225
  • Cheap stunts. Sort of like the illegal invasion of Iraq, eh? Only in that one, several hundreds of thousands of innocent people died as a direct result of what George W. Bush and his cronies did.
  • Illegal is a perception, and in this case, not an American perception.
  • Canada brushed off Amnesty International's call Wednesday to arrest former U.S. President George W. Bush for human rights abuse, saying the organization was engaging in cheap stunts.
    Canada also has a conservative government right now. We don't know how a liberal Canadian government may have reacted. However, it's possible that due to Canada's deep economic entwinement with the US, no Canadian government would commit what would be taken by the US as a hostile act.

  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    edited October 2011
    if Americas foreign policy like Bush's national security strategy are in extreme conflict with international law, not many Americans will perceieve things like illegal pre-emptive war as illegal

    I think that's just how it works
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    I think the exact effect of the wording is "the US claims it's right to pre-emptively attack any imagined or percieved threat of US's international interests."
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    guess hes above the law
    Like Berlusconi, who abolished several laws, and created about 18 others which enable him to do what the hell he likes, really....
    It's not uncommon for those who make Laws so be above them....

  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    my friend tells me stories from law courses that makes that not so hard to believe.

    Bush didn't make international law though, someone else created it and it's bassically like he's the only one who could have broken it
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited October 2011
    I'm not a big fan of international law. Its illegal to state on a can of tuna fish that it was caught net free er whatever net save dolphin (someone posted here a year or so ago). All because of Japanese tuna lobby.

    In essence international government is too vast. It cannot customize to fit the various cultures.

    That being said I don't agree with pre-emptive war. However I believe thats up to the individual nations to put a stop to that.
  • if Americas foreign policy like Bush's national security strategy are in extreme conflict with international law, not many Americans will perceieve things like illegal pre-emptive war as illegal

    I think that's just how it works
    It wasn't pre-emptive, and only illegal in the eyes of the US haters.

  • I'm not a big fan of international law. Its illegal to state on a can of tuna fish that it was caught net free er whatever net save dolphin (someone posted here a year or so ago). All because of Japanese tuna lobby.
    That's WTO law. The WTO is evil. The UN, on the other hand, comes up with some pretty good human rights law. Let's not mix the two, by which I mean, place the blame squarely where it belongs for the tuna issue: with the WTO, which is corporate-driven. If the WTO hadn't been created, we wouldn't be seeing some of these problems today.

  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited October 2011
    Illegal is a perception, and in this case, not an American perception.
    No, I'm talking about international law. It was not a declared war and the US was not attacked by Iraq, thus it was an illegal invasion under international law. Not my opinion, a fact of international law. And I happen to be an American, so yes, it *is* an American perception. One of many.
    It wasn't pre-emptive, and only illegal in the eyes of the US haters.
    Funny, the Bush administration defended it as pre-emptive, and it was their war. They ought to know...

  • Thanks for the correction, @compassionate_warrior
  • edited October 2011
    Extrajudicial killings (Sadam, the US citizen they just "droned" in Yemen) are against international law. But the US has a history of ignoring international law at its convenience.

    No problem, Jeffrey. Actually, I need to correct myself: it's Rumsfeld who Germany has an arrest warrant on.
  • edited October 2011
    Latest update and further correction: turns out the arrest warrant was more of a rumor than reality. A lawsuit was filed against Rumsfeld and others for international crimes, but it's up to the German government to decide how to deal with it. That's all the info I can find.

    @Telly03 Let's leave this Stalinist "If you're not with us, you're against us" mentality back in the GW Bush administration, where it first cropped up. If we can't analyze and critique, we can't move forward and improve. I'm with Mountains on this one. Dissent has its roots in patriotism.
  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran
    edited October 2011
    From a memorandum from AI to Canadian authorities:

    Amnesty International considers that there is enough material in the public domain – even if one were to rely only upon information released by United States authorities, and by former US President George W. Bush himself – to give rise to an obligation for Canada, should former President Bush proceed with his visit to Canada on or around 20 October 2011, to investigate his alleged involvement in and responsibility for crimes under international law, including torture, and to secure his presence in Canada during that investigation.

    1. Acts of torture (and, it may be noted, other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment and enforced disappearance) were committed against detainees held in a secret detention and
    interrogation program operated by the USA’s Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) between 2002 and 2009.

    2. The CIA established this secret program under the authorization of then-President George W. Bush.

    3. Since leaving office, former President George W. Bush has said that he authorized the use of a number of “enhanced interrogation techniques” against detainees held in the secret
    CIA program. The former President specifically admitted to authorizing the “waterboarding” of identified individuals, whose subjection to this torture technique has been
    confirmed.

    4. Additionally, torture and other ill-treatment, and secret detention, by US forces occurred outside the confines of the CIA-run secret detention program, including against detainees
    held in military custody at the US Naval Base at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba, and in the context of armed conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    5. George W. Bush was Commander in Chief of all US armed forces at the relevant times.

    6. The Administration of George W. Bush acted on the basis that he was essentially unrestrained by international or US law in determining the USA’s response to the attacks in the USA on 11 September 2001. Among other things, President Bush decided that the protections of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, including their common article 3, would not be applied to Taleban or al-Qa’ida detainees.

    7. George W. Bush, as Commander in Chief at the relevant times, if he did not directly order or authorize such crimes, at least knew, or had reason to know, that US forces were about to
    commit or were committing such crimes and did not take all necessary and reasonable measures in his power as Commander in Chief and President to prevent their commission or, if the crimes had already been committed, ensure that all those who were alleged to be responsible for these crimes were brought to justice.

    8. The USA has failed to conduct investigations capable of reaching former President George W. Bush, and all indications are that it will not do so, at least in the near future.

    9. The facts summarized above, which are matters of public record, are sufficient to give rise to mandatory obligations for Canada under international law (including but not limited to
    the UN Convention against Torture), should former US President George W. Bush enter Canadian territory, to:
    · launch a criminal investigation;
    · arrest former President Bush or otherwise secure his presence during that investigation; and
    · submit the case to competent authorities in Canada for the purposes of prosecution if it does not extradite him to another state able and willing to do so.
  • It would not be a good idea to arrest Bush I don't think. Who wants WW3? WW1 was started on the assassination of one man. Its called a powder keg.
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    It would not be a good idea to arrest Bush I don't think. Who wants WW3? WW1 was started on the assassination of one man. Its called a powder keg.
    WWIII would be caused by the arrest of George Bush? :wtf:
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited October 2011
    Possibly. It would be an international incident. You act like its a minor thing? Especially given your views on american govt and people who support that government I would expect you to be the last person to disagree. I mean come on....the US reaction?
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    It's good for international human rights bodies to take a stand like this. AI and especially the UN Human Rights orgs are international standard setters for human rights norms. So just the fact of taking a public stand sends a strong message to the world, not to mention the individuals cited.
    agreed.

    in 50 years, i wonder what our history books will say of this whole bush/cheney war period...
  • It would not be a good idea to arrest Bush I don't think. Who wants WW3? WW1 was started on the assassination of one man. Its called a powder keg.
    Clearly you're not much of a student of history. WWI would have started whether or not Gavrilo Princip assassinated Archduke Ferdinand. The wheels were already in motion. The assassination was just a catalyst that caused it to happen sooner.

    Not remotely, in any kind of way related to current world events, nor what would happen if Bush were arrested.
  • "just a catalyst that caused it to happen sooner"

    Exactly. It was called a powder keg in my world history class.
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    The war was an act of aggression, and therefore illegal
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/nov/20/usa.iraq1

    News
    UK news

    War critics astonished as US hawk admits invasion was illegal


    International lawyers and anti-war campaigners reacted with astonishment yesterday after the influential Pentagon hawk Richard Perle conceded that the invasion of Iraq had been illegal.

    In a startling break with the official White House and Downing Street lines, Mr Perle told an audience in London: "I think in this case international law stood in the way of doing the right thing."

    President George Bush has consistently argued that the war was legal either because of existing UN security council resolutions on Iraq - also the British government's publicly stated view - or as an act of self-defence permitted by international law.

    But Mr Perle, a key member of the defence policy board, which advises the US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, said that "international law ... would have required us to leave Saddam Hussein alone", and this would have been morally unacceptable.
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2004/sep/17/iraq.iraq

    The declaration of the United Nations secretary-general, Kofi Annan, on the Iraq war was shocking in its simplicity. He described it for the first time as "illegal". No caveats. No equivocation. None of the ambiguity loved by diplomats, especially at UN headquarters.

    "From our point of view and from the charter point of view, it was illegal."
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