Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Why did no one tell me about chakra's? What else am I missing?
,
0
Comments
All the best,
Todd
knowing how to manipulate prana through with the breath (pranayama) is, however, extremely useful... it can be used to calm the mind significantly and to heal the physical body.
Any other chakra is just a part of the first *smile* and not necessary for the way. Dont worry if missing things regarding the ongoing wheel.
Slowing down the first and set the second in move is the way to escape.
And we start with letting go. *smile*
I think it is like someone who has only learned to meditate by counting their breath, then they might say that this is the only way. This is of course, incorrect.
There will always be the debate between those "purist's" and those who may practice other methods which are certainly within the scope of Buddhism. I like to try to remember that there are many, many methods suitable for the many different kinds of people. And it is important to look at the fact that even in recent history, many people have been able to actually achieve fruition using some of these methods, so I say "the proof is in the pudding".
Fruition means reaching (completing for the first time) the noble eightfold path (dharma chakra), so we could also simply try to walk it to arrive in its full turn.
this directly correlates with the 8 fold path in that each part relates to the whole.
you don't necessarily need to believe or experience chakras to understand the "psychological" framework that the chakras present. it is a very deeply provoking and well thought out system.
the purpose of chakras is to balance them and then awaken kundalini so that one may achieve a new level of consciousness. that is what i've gathered in my study of chakras/kundalini.
how that fits into buddhism? well even if it does occur Buddhism doesn't care much about it. just like buddhism doesn't care if you work out two times a day or not. it is all personal preference.
if you study symbology in buddhism you will see that chakras are apparent within buddhist visual knowledge. the buddha's head basically symbolizes the crown chakras, whereas many buddhas are depicted with a bindu on their forehead symbolizing the third eye chakra.
it is no accident that the buddha is shown in various positions. sitting in meditation, laying on the right side, etc.
all of these have specific meanings when it comes down to the chakra system.
as well with meditation. in zazen we sit with our spines erect and with the cosmic mudra. this is mudra is placed either near the hara or the root chakra. it creates a closed circuit.
i am a nerd when it comes to this kind of stuff. chakra = circles.
circles = everywhere in symbology.
It happens so often that I'm pretty much able to live in harmony with this massive amount of spinning energy. It's a pretty strange sensation, and gets stronger if i put my attention to it. I'm still not entirely sure what it means, if anything, to have a crazy overactive third eye... but its there, and i feel it at this very moment.
Open to comments about this lol .... but apparently chakras are just as real as anything else (if you catch my drift)
Mani
Mani
Now that was the cook book version of the chakra system as I have encountered it. I ain't sayin' its real or not. Its' just my 2 cents worth....
root- safety and feeling security. Substantialness of earth.
sacral - creativity in the sense of physically creating. Flowing of water.
navel - willpower/emotions the heating of fire
heart - empathy, the clearing (and openness like you say) of air
throat - mediator between ideas and heart/communication.. the space of ether
ajna (third eye) - ideas/imagination/planning... the realm of thought
crown - spiritual (I think you put it well)/liberation... no substance
This is more from an Indian popular book rather than Tibetan serious awareness practice..
There is a link between root/crown, sacral/ajna, navel/throat. These compliment eachother. Heart is whole in itself and gives healing energy to the whole system.
@MintyFresh0 Interesting experience. Have you seen anyone about this?
When we talk about fruition in sense of dharma we speak of levels of panna (and the joy comes with it), the stream-enterer, the once-returner, the non-returner, and the liberated one.
Really joining means to attain the fruition of stream-enterer, that's the moment the right wheel turns on.
Fruition (phala) before real might slow down the other wheel, but are still fruits of the chakra of suffering. Wholesome deed will cause wholesome phalas and lead us to real fruits.
:wave:
So its good to leave the vehicle of pudding (pleasure) turning a big chakra as well.
You don't exist as a self.
While it is completely understandable that there are many different methods with in the many different vehicles, schools, lineages and so-forth within the scope of Buddhism, and to know that everyone practices a method based on their own conditions, it is quite unfortunate for so many to discount aspects of practices that they know little to nothing about. It seems so many who have never practiced Vajrayana, Dzogchen, Mahamudra, etc. have so much to say about it, and this is quite puzzling sometimes.
M
I think one thing that may be overlooked is that we usually can only understand things through our own knowledge, past experience, etc. A analogy (albeit a poor one) is that of a tribesman in New Guinea. He most likely has never seen a "ford taurus", let alone probably has never even seen a car. So to him, it simply does not exist, but of course this does not negate the existence of cars, because in our experience we see them everyday.
So along the same lines of this example, those who's practice does not involve this sort of thing may dismiss it, but it doesn't negate the existence of it within some practices. I think this is part of tolerance of other traditions and vehicles that is so important to keep in mind.
M
The OP posed a question that has some interesting ramifications. Can't we enjoy an exploration of those without reading more into the comments than is really there?
I would rather believe there was heterogenious beliefs amongst the sangha. Just as we find in early Christianity.
Don't you think it possible that chakra methods were used by some of buddhas students. And hypothetically students who were enlightened? Indeed the lineage mahayana traditions also claim a descent from the Buddha.
@Mani nailed it
That still doesn't mean it's something the Buddha taught. It's an interesting question, but I don't think chakras were part of the Dharma. (Why is this statement being viewed as a value judgment?) There's no mention of them in the scriptures, AFAIK. So back to the OP, that may be why, in the context of Buddhism, no one told Sam about chakras. Even if it's part of "Vajrayana", or Highest Yoga Tantra, those teachings are mostly secret, so no one would have told Sam about it.
@Mani I haven't seen anyone discounting anything, certainly not Vajrayana here. Sorry if anything I posted may have been construed that way. It wasn't meant to be.
cw, I am saying that the lineages in the mahayana go all the way back to buddha. I am also saying that his sangha was heterogenious. It is basicly like the Christians. They all had indivual spiritualities and they all took inspiration from Jesus. Jesus was not a dictator who did not let you be an individual. And neither was buddhist, I mean buddha. There is no reason to think everything going on was included in the scriptures.
In one sutra buddha picks up a handful of leaves and says that what he has taught is like a handful of leaves, whereas what one can know is like all the leaves in the forest.
I bet there are some theravadans who do yoga. This is heterogeniety even within modern theravada!
1) If no enlightened buddhas have ever been produced then it is a moot point which teaching to follow as none work.
2) If 1 is false then that means there were subsequent enlightened masters.
3) If 2 is true then there can be dharma teachings on yoga from subsequent buddhas.
So it seems like the theravada is acting like the bible saying that no word shall be added or subtracted, whereas the mahayana says there are 84000 dharma gates and if sentient beings need them the buddhas will creat 84001..2...3...etc
Your point raises another question. How do we define "Buddhism"? Do we define it as what is written in the Pali and other scriptures (Gandhari, etc.) of a certain period? Or do we say, "These scriptures are Buddhism, but a lot of other things may also be Buddhism, but since they didn't get written down, we don't really know what the parameters of Buddhism are"? How do we work with that?
Also, I just think it's extraneous to the essence of what Buddha taught - which is the 4NT.
When you start getting into the higher Jhana states, the experience of the chakras might just manifest spontaneously, as they did for me. As well... they are used for the mind to focus on certain powers within the body having to do with the elements and the gland system, there is nothing "mystical" about it really. If you don't get it, don't worry about it and just practice the 4 NT's and do your jhana cultivation. But, for me, it's very easy to see how they belong in Buddhist practice as people evolved through the basics. It can speed up the path, as they say, if one has a mind for it.