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Should total absorption be a goal?

TakuanTakuan Veteran
edited October 2011 in Meditation
I've been meditating for a while now, and I've never really experienced a deep absorption during practice (maybe once). Although I've tried not to make this my goal, there is still an urge to experience absorption. I don't know... I just wonder what it's like to be so deep in concentration that one cannot even process feelings or the passage of time. You know, that point where everything disappears except for the object of meditation. I've read so much about this, but have yet to experience such a thing.

Should gaining states of absorption be a goal for practice?

Comments

  • I don't think we should set "goals" for meditation. That seems to be the opposite of the reason for doing it. A goal is an expectation. And an expectation is just another name for an attachment (to a specific outcome). It's happened to me a few times, but rarely. Enjoy it if it happens, but don't strive for it.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited October 2011
    It depends on what tradition you ask. Some say "don't strive". Theravada tradition says this "Because full absorption offers the benefit of strengthened concentration, a meditator who gains access is encouraged to strive for the attainment of jhana." But it is a kind of striving that is not connected to expectations but connected to making and exerting "right effort". But the goal is really not a goal of "right now this minute I will achieve it" But it's more like a long term goal that will come naturally if you make right effort.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Alternatively, go ahead and have a goal ... and keep on practicing. Eventually you will get tired of banging your head against a brick wall (goal) and stop. This human idiocy (banging your head against the wall because it feels so good when you stop) doesn't deserve to be frowned upon. Learning what's foolish and what's not is always useful.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    Goals need not have expectations. :) The Bodhisattva goal is to save all beings from suffering. However, I doubt anyone is losing sleep over not attaining it. :)
  • ManiMani Veteran
    Yes, as others have suggested, it may be better to not set these kinds of goals. Even if you do have some sort of experience, then this will lead to further expectations of reaching it again, and it can cause obstacles to your practice.

    Just try to do the practice, with no goals, no expectations and then perhaps over time you will notice some results. Sometimes when we have these kinds of goals, our minds are a little too tight during our practice.

    M
  • I don't think that not setting goals in meditation is really condusive to progress... The PURPOSE of meditation is to give us penatrative insight into the TRUTH through concentration and mindfulness. If we don't have that as a goal, why are we sitting? Just to sit? Of course not... That being said not every meditation session will produce absorbtion, and becoming attached to the deeper states is dangerous because it can create suffering and aversion to our daily practice... Which often will not produce profound states.

    That being said, a few things to consider when trying to deepen your practice are:

    Is you meditation technique correct, re: is it a practice that will produce concentration, mindfulness and insight? Not all techniques are equal in this respect.

    Are you meditating regularly... Every day, around the same time?

    Are you meditating in a place where you feel safe enough not to be disturbed? To allow yourself to be absorbed without fear

    Are you using stimulants... Coffee, soda, etc during the hours leading up to practice

    Are you eating large neals during the hours leading up to practice... This one is overlooked by many but very important. A full stomach makes concentration very difficult.

    Are you practicing sila? Meditation progress is directly related to how tightly we adhere to the ethical precepts laid down by the Buddha.
  • Just for devils advocate, but how can a stranger on the internet answer that question?
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    Medatative absorption is a very unique experience far greater then any Samsaric bliss. If the conditions are right it will take a few hours of meditation to settle the mind and then progress with the stages of concentration. It is important to recieve blessings from the Buddha's and this swiftly aids our progress in whatever we set to task upon. Its well worth the experience :)
  • Well, if/when you reach "meditative absorption" you won't know it! :) You only can look back on the experience, which is kind of "not really practicing", so I would say just keep meditating and when you fall into meditative absorption be careful that you can come back to the real world. :) I had a friend who said he could barely get back to normal consciousness after going deep into absorption. I usually stay in it for about 1/2 an hour and then kinda force myself to "re-enter" this world. When you have reached that state of being several times you can do it any time, even when your walking through the mall! :)
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    @Wondering

    You usually do know when you get into it one always returns to normal consciousness after a certain period of time usually when one decides to get of the cushion. :)
  • I think achieving any altered state of consciousness should not be the goal of Buddhist meditation. Why do we want to achieve it? Because it's pleasant, it makes us feel better or more secure. Same reason we chase after entertainment, sex or money.

    I've been there, believing that spiritual life was being able to escape ordinary life into some blissful state of mind. I have come to view that as a mistake. I ended up being filled with longing and confusion.

    When we meditate, we may experience these altered states of consciousness. However, they're just as fleeting as any other movement of the mind. Experience them, investigate them and let them go.
  • The ultimate aim of Buddhist meditation is to let go although there may be striving initially to subdue the monkey mind.

    Anything one encounters in meditation should be regarded as not me, not mine, not self including blissful states.



  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited October 2011
    "Having abandoned these five hindrances — imperfections of awareness that weaken discernment — then, quite withdrawn from sensual pleasures, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, he enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought and evaluation. This, too, is how striving is fruitful, how exertion is fruitful.
    MN 101

    It's for you to strive ardently. Tathagatas simply point out the way. Those who practice, absorbed in jhana: from Mara's bonds they'll be freed.
    Dhammapada 277-279

    "Striving" in this context does not mean "clinging". It mean exerting "right effort". Attaining the Jhanas does not and can not come without exerting ardent efforts.

    Absorption should be a goal because absorption is literally "right concentration" factor of the 8 Fold path. However, that is not the only goal, there are 7 other goals which correspond with the 7 other parts of the 8FP.
  • I think achieving any altered state of consciousness should not be the goal of Buddhist meditation. Why do we want to achieve it? Because it's pleasant, it makes us feel better or more secure. Same reason we chase after entertainment, sex or money.

    I've been there, believing that spiritual life was being able to escape ordinary life into some blissful state of mind. I have come to view that as a mistake. I ended up being filled with longing and confusion.

    When we meditate, we may experience these altered states of consciousness. However, they're just as fleeting as any other movement of the mind. Experience them, investigate them and let them go.
    I see the process of "stilling the mind" as a natural exercise in understanding one's original nature. If a persons decides to do this, once the mind is still, the "natural" consequences happen. It is nothing special. Absorption is a natural result of the mind resting in itself without delusion or thinking. No big deal, and nothing all that special. It is not an altered state of consciousness, it is a natural one. Nirvana means "blowing out the flame" or "extinguishing the flame". That is what happens when a person meditates sincerely. There is no set period of time for this to happen. For some it happens almost instantaneously, to others it takes years. That's just the way it is. I do not think absorption is a fleeting experience, especially if a person wants to live a Buddhist life. It is fundamental in the quest for the relief of suffering. This of course IMHO. :)
  • >That is what happens when a person meditates sincerely.

    I agree and that's the point-- meditation bears natural fruit, such as more peaceful and content states of mind (I supposed that's what they call "absorption" in this thread). They are just something that happens.

    But in my understanding, those fruit should not be the motivation, but should be more like by-the-way kind of thing. If we make them the motivation, we're clinging to something and that will inevitably cause suffering.

    > I do not think absorption is a fleeting experience
    I'm afraid that anything that can be experienced by this mind is fleeting, no matter how elevated or special it might seem :( All it takes to make it flee is a brick on the head ;)

    PS. I also believe that different language to talk about this is used in different schools. I am more used to the Zen tradition. But in reality both points of view presented in this thread might be in agreement.



  • > I do not think absorption is a fleeting experience
    I'm afraid that anything that can be experienced by this mind is fleeting, no matter how elevated or special it might seem :( All it takes to make it flee is a brick on the head ;)
    GOOD POINT! agreed..............
  • Thank you all for your advice. The info here is quite helpful.
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