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The second American revolution has begun

wonderingwondering Veteran
edited October 2011 in Buddhism Today
There’s a sense of desperation in America today. Their jobs are being exported out of the country, their health insurance is being dropped by employers, their dollars are becoming increasingly worthless with each passing day and their futures don’t look very promising. They’re angry, frustrated and desperate, so they take to the streets and protest. Occupy Wall Street! Occupy The Fed! Take to the streets!

It’s the right thing to do, but what most protesters — and nearly all Americans — don’t fully grasp is that nearly every powerful institution is a criminal racket. It’s not just Wall Street that’s operated like a criminal mob, folks: It’s the U.S. Congress. It’s the health care industry. It’s conventional agriculture, the mainstream media, the processed food manufacturers, the government regulators and of course the entire military industrial complex.

Nearly everything around you is a criminal operation. The banks openly steal your homes while laundering money for global drug lords. The U.S. government runs illegal guns into Mexico while allowing cocaine and heroin back into the USA to be sold at pumped-up black market prices. The mainstream media broadcasts outright lies and complete fabrications as if they were fact. Much of modern medical “science” is complete quackery or fiction, funded by corporations for the purpose of expanding corporate power. The local water supply is intentionally contaminated with toxic poisons known as “fluoride,” and the local food supply is tainted with other dangerous chemicals like aspartame, MSG and BPA.

Your local hospital is almost certainly involved in a medical racket that seeks to insert high-profit medical procedure charges onto patient bills, and your local nursing home most likely throws granny in the hospital for a few days in order to get triple billing from Medicare upon their return. Doctors prescribe antibiotics because they get kickbacks from the drug companies, and the medical journals are little more than science whores who have been bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical industry. And don’t forget vaccines, which have become the pathway through which infectious disease is actually spread among the population using live viruses injected into innocent children (http://www.naturalnews.com/033447_I…).

Wake the heck up, people! Most of modern society is a giant con. Nearly every institution, every mega corporation, every government and nearly every politician or bureaucrat is really just a criminal mobster trying to steal your wealth or gain control over your actions and thoughts. Most institutions actually cause the very things they claim to be fighting against!

You can read the rest of the article at......

http://www.infowars.com/the-second-american-revolution-has-begun-2/
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Comments

  • If one gives he needs to take. When one gives a lot he needs to take a lot. That is how the world is going on. Not often there are some who abstain from taking. *smile* And very rare those who can share what they really own.
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    I had high hopes for this post - and then it started getting into conspiracy theories... so nevermind then.
  • I had high hopes for this post - and then it started getting into conspiracy theories... so nevermind then.
    Its from Infowars. That's why.

  • Absolute power corrupts,absolutely.
  • wonderingwondering Veteran
    edited October 2011
    I had high hopes for this post - and then it started getting into conspiracy theories... so nevermind then.
    Its from Infowars. That's why.

    Well it is actually from the editor of

    http://www.naturalnews.com

    As far as conspiracy theories, ( like the Earth is round or the Earth rotates around the Sun and hundreds more ) a whole lot of truth/s that we live by have come from them. There is a lot of truth to this article, not everything ( I hope ), but the anger is not going to stop any time soon, and it isn't going to end with #occupy everything. The time is getting ripe for the people in the US to speak TRUTH to power. If we do not, we can only blame our selves for that which is to come.
  • @wondering ... Enjoyed your radical rant, but I think I'll pass on the invitation to join the "angry, frustrated and desperate" in the streets... Time that I could better use in taking my family on a picnic to the beach or something like that.
  • @wondering ... Enjoyed your radical rant, but I think I'll pass on the invitation to join the "angry, frustrated and desperate" in the streets... Time that I could better use in taking my family on a picnic to the beach or something like that.
    Sounds like a great idea! I would bet that you are very protective of your children. It might be a wise idea to not shrug off the "angry, frustrated, and desperate" people on the streets so cavalierly. It might not be that far in the future that those people will become violent. Just saying it might be wise to look at the big picture to assist your much loved family if/when the poo-poo hits the fan.

  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited October 2011
    Your local hospital is almost certainly involved in a medical racket that seeks to insert high-profit medical procedure charges onto patient bills, and your local nursing home most likely throws granny in the hospital for a few days in order to get triple billing from Medicare upon their return. Doctors prescribe antibiotics because they get kickbacks from the drug companies, and the medical journals are little more than science whores who have been bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical industry. And don’t forget vaccines, which have become the pathway through which infectious disease is actually spread among the population using live viruses injected into innocent children (http://www.naturalnews.com/033447_I…).
    Not to put too fine a point on it, but that entire paragraph is 100% bullshit. You need to read more. Sorry, but every point in there is wrong to some degree (most are 100% wrong). Just factually wrong.

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. One conspiracy theory web site is not extraordinary proof. It's not proof, period.
  • Telly03Telly03 Veteran
    edited October 2011
    @wondering ... Enjoyed your radical rant, but I think I'll pass on the invitation to join the "angry, frustrated and desperate" in the streets... Time that I could better use in taking my family on a picnic to the beach or something like that.
    Sounds like a great idea! I would bet that you are very protective of your children. It might be a wise idea to not shrug off the "angry, frustrated, and desperate" people on the streets so cavalierly. It might not be that far in the future that those people will become violent. Just saying it might be wise to look at the big picture to assist your much loved family if/when the poo-poo hits the fan.

    @wondering Thank you for your concern over my family... I will do what I can to protect them from violence. And I also hope that you are not one of those who's anger, frustration and desperation turn into violence.
  • "What do you think, Kalamas? When greed arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"

    "For harm, lord."

    "And this greedy person, overcome by greed, his mind possessed by greed, kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."

    "Yes, lord."

    "Now, what do you think, Kalamas? When aversion arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"

    "For harm, lord."

    "And this aversive person, overcome by aversion, his mind possessed by aversion, kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."

    "Yes, lord."

    "Now, what do you think, Kalamas? When delusion arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"

    "For harm, lord."

    "And this deluded person, overcome by delusion, his mind possessed by delusion, kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."

    "Yes, lord."

    "So what do you think, Kalamas: Are these qualities skillful or unskillful?"

    "Unskillful, lord."

    "Blameworthy or blameless?"

    "Blameworthy, lord."

    "Criticized by the wise or praised by the wise?"

    "Criticized by the wise, lord."

    "When adopted & carried out, do they lead to harm & to suffering, or not?"

    "When adopted & carried out, they lead to harm & to suffering. That is how it appears to us."

    "So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" — then you should abandon them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.065.than.html

    *smile*
  • Just another source of how bad it is getting......

    Poverty Is Crushing Suburban America Where Americans Are Reluctant To Ask For Help

    Poverty is expanding in America and the suburbs now house the majority of the nation's poor.

    In a drastic shift from the way life has been for almost a century, more poverty stricken American's live away from cities, and poverty rates are rising faster in suburbia than any other residential area in the country.

    Where it was once urban centers and inner cities, today's growing class of poverty-stricken Americans are living in homes they own, on quiet tree-lined streets.

    Unfortunately, the homes are going into foreclosure, streetlights are being removed, and infrastructure is crumbling.

    The Brookings Institution recently released their census analysis showing that the number of poor citizens in the suburbs rose 53 percent from 2000 to 2010, compared to 26 percent in the cities (via Moneyland).

    The causes are as varied as they are difficult to reverse:

    Population growth
    Job decentralization
    Aging of housing
    Immigration
    Region-wide economic decline'
    Government policies ushering city poor into suburban homes

    There are millions more poor living in the suburbs than live in the city — 15.4 million compared to 12.7 — and those numbers continue to skew away from urban areas.

    From 2009 to 2010 rising poverty levels more than doubled in the suburbs up 11.5 percent compared to 5 percent in urban areas.

    CNN Money mapped out the highest suburban areas in the country:

    El Paso, TX — 36.4% of suburban residents live in poverty
    McAllen-Edinburg-Mission, TX — 35.4% of suburban residents live in poverty
    Fresno, CA — 23.1% of suburban residents live in poverty

    Elizabeth Kneebone, a senior researcher at the Brookings Institution, who conducted the analysis of census data told The New York Times, "The growth has been stunning. For the first time, more than half of the metropolitan poor live in suburban homes."

    The Times looks at Cleveland's suburbs where 60 percent of the cities poor now reside, up from 46 percent in 2000. Unlike urban centers where the poor are often accustomed to assistance, out in the once prosperous suburbs, residents are reluctant to ask for help.

    Churches offering assistance will post a member at the entrance to the drive, assuring people who drive by that it is OK to stop and receive help.

    And demand is way up. The Cleveland Food Bank doubled its distribution to six counties between 2005 and 2010. The Food Bank's director Anne Goodman told the NYT that among residents, "There's this sense of surprise. This feeling that this has got to be a mistake. It has got to be a bad dream."

    located at.....

    http://www.businessinsider.com/poverty-in-america-spreading-to-suburbs-2011-10


  • @wondering ... Enjoyed your radical rant, but I think I'll pass on the invitation to join the "angry, frustrated and desperate" in the streets... Time that I could better use in taking my family on a picnic to the beach or something like that.
    Sounds like a great idea! I would bet that you are very protective of your children. It might be a wise idea to not shrug off the "angry, frustrated, and desperate" people on the streets so cavalierly. It might not be that far in the future that those people will become violent. Just saying it might be wise to look at the big picture to assist your much loved family if/when the poo-poo hits the fan.

    @wondering Thank you for your concern over my family... I will do what I can to protect them from violence. And I also hope that you are not one of those who's anger, frustration and desperation turn into violence.
    I was a conscientious objector during the Viet Nam war. No need to be concerned about me turning violent. :) All the best to you and your family!

  • It's a beautiful day today... I think I'll eat my lunch outside
  • Your local hospital is almost certainly involved in a medical racket that seeks to insert high-profit medical procedure charges onto patient bills, and your local nursing home most likely throws granny in the hospital for a few days in order to get triple billing from Medicare upon their return. Doctors prescribe antibiotics because they get kickbacks from the drug companies, and the medical journals are little more than science whores who have been bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical industry. And don’t forget vaccines, which have become the pathway through which infectious disease is actually spread among the population using live viruses injected into innocent children (http://www.naturalnews.com/033447_I…).
    Not to put too fine a point on it, but that entire paragraph is 100% bullshit. You need to read more. Sorry, but every point in there is wrong to some degree (most are 100% wrong). Just factually wrong.

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. One conspiracy theory web site is not extraordinary proof. It's not proof, period.
    Yea, I know so much of that web site is UNBELIEVABLE, and I doubt about half of what I read there. But where do you get the "real" news these days, CNN, FOX, NY Times? Or Al-Jezeera? The one world conspiracy thing is a little far fetched for me, but there are a lot of people, even former Gov. Jesse Ventura, who think that it really could be happening. All I know is it's bad, and getting worse.



  • It's a beautiful day today... I think I'll eat my lunch outside
    Be careful of those mean squirrels , they could steal your lunch! :)

  • @wondering I have never seen any here... we do have mongoose and rats though, so yes, I need to be on my toes :) These are the real issues; how much of my lunch am I willing to share ;)
  • Everybody seems a little over dramatic on how bad everything is in our country. Sure, its bad. But don't you think all this drama is a little... selfish? I mean, look at how hitler treated the jews, look at british control of america, look at ancient monarchies caring nothing for the people.

    I have this feeling its really not that bad. Sure, there's a lot of bad things going on, but we can't just sit here and complain complain and complain about it. Its not going to help to ask congress to change their ways. We live in a capitalistic society, where the government, the work force, family life, social life, EVERYTHING is ruled by the greed of people and money. You can't change that, unless you change the whole system, which is going to be a long and difficult process.

    IT will change, but I don't think it will change soon enough. So what I do is just try to enjoy how my life is right now.
  • @Lostsoul...... Yea, it is over dramatized. That's how people make the NEWZ! But, a revolution is coming for the whole world, it just might take 150 years for it to really change. I agree with you, enjoy life NOW, that is all we will ever have! :)


  • "Criticized by the wise or praised by the wise?"

    "Criticized by the wise, lord."

    *smile*
    :)

  • Everybody is afraid of "them" and what "they" are doing. Who exactly are "they"? Are "they" smarter than everybody else on earth? We can't govern ourselves out of a wet paper bag these days. Why are "they" so omniscient and omnipotent that "they" can govern and control the entire world? I don't get it.

    Were do you get news that's actually news? Find the news outlets that are not owned by corporations whose sole aim is to maximize profit. See out news that comes from sources as close to objectivity as possible. Being humans, no news organization is completely unbiased, but some are a LOT less biased than others. Which ones aren't corporately owned? As far as I'm aware there are three in the English speaking world: al Jazeera, the BBC, and NPR. That's it. That's where 99.9% of my news intake comes from. All the rest are beholden to some corporate CEO who, by definition, has an agenda.
  • Yea, it is over dramatized. That's how people make the NEWZ!
    I hope your spelling there was intentional, because that's patently *NOT* news. It's sensationalism masquerading as news. News is the dissemination of facts and thoughtful, reasoned analysis.
  • Yea, it is over dramatized. That's how people make the NEWZ!
    I hope your spelling there was intentional, because that's patently *NOT* news. It's sensationalism masquerading as news. News is the dissemination of facts and thoughtful, reasoned analysis.

    I agree! Just having a little fun....with the ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ thing.

  • @wondering ... Enjoyed your radical rant, but I think I'll pass on the invitation to join the "angry, frustrated and desperate" in the streets... Time that I could better use in taking my family on a picnic to the beach or something like that.
    Right. Presumably you have a stable job, a savings that will last through the tough times, plentiful food, healthcare,and shelter. Perhaps, and probably you do not live in the states.

    So you do not need to have compassion for the angry,frustrated or desperate people...until you are one of them. Not a care in the world must be nice. Tell me, what's it like?

    My time is better spent too, looking for the employment that I do not have, to get the healthcare that I need. Applying for the food stamp program that I paid into for years and never thought I would ever need,worrying endlessly about whether I will get to keep the home that I bought just less than a year ago, and dealing with the feelings of being trapped in a situation I can do little about. Not for lack of trying.

    So, you see, those that are angry,frustrated and desperate are living in fear. They speak up because no one seems to care, most especially those who are content in their little privileged worlds with their blinders on.

    Go ahead, spend time with your family, enjoy that quality time, and be sure and tell your children how bright their futures are as you pass the homeless man with his hand out.

    Oh wait, that must make me angry,frustrated and desperate too.

    You'd better believe I support the Occupy movement, in spirit for now, because I have to save myself from people like you who don't care.




  • #hubris......Well said my friend...... You are one of the 99%, my very best wishes for your immediate future. I think the #occupy movement is going to stay alive until the next election. I hope that it will really make a difference in the plutocracy that America has become. You do know that the #occupy movement is in almost in every city in the United States. Some of the groups might be small, like I live near a town that has about 100,000 people and there are only 40 people camping out at the city building downtown, but they are there, everyday, and everyone that drives by sees them, and becomes a little more aware of how difficult it has become for so many Americans.
  • 'Nuff said...
    oops that post went through before your moderation......i am finished.
  • I wasn't moderating, I was just saying the sign says it all...
  • I certainly hope the occupy movement not only stays around until the election, but continues to grow and flourish. There are a LOT of pissed off and very scared people (me included) who have had it way past up to ^^^here^^^ with CEOs who make 400-500x their average worker's pay, people who torpedo the world's economy and still get $20 million "bonuses", and corporations (GE, Exxon) who are headquartered in the US yet pay ZERO corporate taxes in this country. We're just sick of it all.
  • Telly03Telly03 Veteran
    edited October 2011
    @wondering ... Enjoyed your radical rant, but I think I'll pass on the invitation to join the "angry, frustrated and desperate" in the streets... Time that I could better use in taking my family on a picnic to the beach or something like that.
    Right. Presumably you have a stable job, a savings that will last through the tough times, plentiful food, healthcare,and shelter. Perhaps, and probably you do not live in the states.

    So you do not need to have compassion for the angry,frustrated or desperate people...until you are one of them. Not a care in the world must be nice. Tell me, what's it like?

    My time is better spent too, looking for the employment that I do not have, to get the healthcare that I need. Applying for the food stamp program that I paid into for years and never thought I would ever need,worrying endlessly about whether I will get to keep the home that I bought just less than a year ago, and dealing with the feelings of being trapped in a situation I can do little about. Not for lack of trying.

    So, you see, those that are angry,frustrated and desperate are living in fear. They speak up because no one seems to care, most especially those who are content in their little privileged worlds with their blinders on.

    Go ahead, spend time with your family, enjoy that quality time, and be sure and tell your children how bright their futures are as you pass the homeless man with his hand out.

    Oh wait, that must make me angry,frustrated and desperate too.

    You'd better believe I support the Occupy movement, in spirit for now, because I have to save myself from people like you who don't care.

    Because I try to enjoy my day, my moment, you assume that I don't care about those who are not enjoying their day... I consider myself a very charitable person. I do enjoy opportunities to help others. I give to several charities, have spent time preparing meals at the homeless shelter, and never accepted repayment from money I provided friends and family when they needed help.

    You assumed that I don't live in the states... I do. I plan to vote for the candidate that I feel will help folks like you, and perhaps me someday, who are struggling.

    I am not compassionate though in your eyes because I decide to not get angry and frustrated and grab a sign and join others who are angry in a situation that may turn violent.

    Be careful what you assume about others... you may not make the correct judgement about them.

    I do hope you find employment that your happy with, so that you don't have to worry about food and healthcare... honestly, best of luck to you.
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    edited October 2011
    'Nuff said...
    oops that post went through before your moderation......i am finished.
    LOL
  • This thread seems largely about the suffering of the masses brought about by the power-lust of the few.

    So what options are there really to deal with it?
    1) Usurp the current government, or find a method that gets it to change its ways.
    2) Move out of America... to where? Is it not like this the world over?
    3) Become completely unattached/removed from the ideas, and ignore them.
    4) Do your best to educate people not on what is causing the suffering, but how to relieve the suffering. The world isn't going to do a flip-flop and change overnight. But we can work for change in increments, beginning with personal change, then family, community, and so forth. Condemning those who cause suffering is just another part of the web. Educating people on how not to suffer, and being an example to the world, is a way to teach people that they do not need cause or endure suffering in order to live a full and happy life.
    5)?

    Two pennies.
  • This thread seems largely about the suffering of the masses brought about by the power-lust of the few.

    So what options are there really to deal with it?
    1) Usurp the current government, or find a method that gets it to change its ways.
    2) Move out of America... to where? Is it not like this the world over?
    3) Become completely unattached/removed from the ideas, and ignore them.
    4) Do your best to educate people not on what is causing the suffering, but how to relieve the suffering. The world isn't going to do a flip-flop and change overnight. But we can work for change in increments, beginning with personal change, then family, community, and so forth. Condemning those who cause suffering is just another part of the web. Educating people on how not to suffer, and being an example to the world, is a way to teach people that they do not need cause or endure suffering in order to live a full and happy life.
    5)?

    Two pennies.
    I like 3 & 4... If the people are open and acceptive to how Buddhism can help with their suffering, then sure, educate.
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited October 2011
    Sometimes the world *does* do flip-flop changes overnight. Ask the former leaders of the USSR and East Germany and Poland and Czechoslovakia and Hungary and Bulgaria and Yugoslavia, etc, etc... In this case I don't think it will, but ONLY through small acts of individual people will anything ever change. It's like eating an elephant. You can't do it all at once. You have to do it a bite at a time (I'm not advocating pachyderm consumption, just saying..). Openly and publicly condemning those whose heinous acts (until now completely unpunished) got us into this mess - naming names, places, and dates - is a start.

    In America, the root of the problem is corporate control of Congress. The "Supreme" (not so much) Court ruled last year that the First Amendment protects corporate "persons" (Google "corporate personhood") were allowed unlimited and unregulated campaign contribution rights. That just reinforced corporate ownership of government. Until and unless we (the people) elect people to Congress who don't buy into that paradigm, and who are willing to stand up and do something about it, nothing will change. What *needs* to change is that *all* campaign contributions need to be made to be $250 or less, with the balance being public financing. Campaigning should be legal only within 90 days of an election. Strict term limits for ALL members of Congress (two terms for Senate, three for the House), no pay for Congress when they're not physically in DC doing the job they were hired to do, no perks, all laws apply to Congress just like the rest of us, NO (repeat NO, zero, zilch) private access to members of congress by ANYONE whose "job" it is to have access to members of congress (in other words, shut down K Street).... Those are things I can think of for starters.
  • Telly03Telly03 Veteran
    edited October 2011
    Oh my goodness, I can't believe that I'm going to say.... I agree with you Mountains :) This is the main Occupiers complaint that I do agree with... we can't get a honest representative to run this country if they are put into position by corporate money (bribes).

    I would love to see an Independent Candidate get some momentum with the focus of changing campaign funding as part of his/her ticket, because I think Dems and Reps are required to walk in a certain non radical fashion to even be considered to represent their party.
  • Sometimes the world *does* do flip-flop changes overnight. Ask the former leaders of the USSR and East Germany and Poland and Czechoslovakia and Hungary and Bulgaria and Yugoslavia, etc, etc... In this case I don't think it will, but ONLY through small acts of individual people will anything ever change. It's like eating an elephant. You can't do it all at once. You have to do it a bite at a time (I'm not advocating pachyderm consumption, just saying..). Openly and publicly condemning those whose heinous acts (until now completely unpunished) got us into this mess - naming names, places, and dates - is a start.

    In America, the root of the problem is corporate control of Congress. The "Supreme" (not so much) Court ruled last year that the First Amendment protects corporate "persons" (Google "corporate personhood") were allowed unlimited and unregulated campaign contribution rights. That just reinforced corporate ownership of government. Until and unless we (the people) elect people to Congress who don't buy into that paradigm, and who are willing to stand up and do something about it, nothing will change. What *needs* to change is that *all* campaign contributions need to be made to be $250 or less, with the balance being public financing. Campaigning should be legal only within 90 days of an election. Strict term limits for ALL members of Congress (two terms for Senate, three for the House), no pay for Congress when they're not physically in DC doing the job they were hired to do, no perks, all laws apply to Congress just like the rest of us, NO (repeat NO, zero, zilch) private access to members of congress by ANYONE whose "job" it is to have access to members of congress (in other words, shut down K Street).... Those are things I can think of for starters.
    I made a post about this on a different forum recently.

    I think that they should outlaw lobbying, cut and dry, no loopholes there.
    I also think they should limit all Congressional offices (President, Senate, House), to 8 years maximum, no more than 4 years in a row. If the same party gets 4 consecutive terms in any seat, the party is forced to sit for the ninth term for that particular seat. (So it goes X,Y,X,Y,Z, in the worst case scenario.)I think that should shake things up a bit, and help get some fresh minds in there. It also carries with it that caveat of the "Z", which will keep any seat from being ruled by a constant "dictatorship".
    There are other things I would propose, but I don't plan on running for a seat any time soon. :)

  • People get what they serve, but yes there are many who like to have more or different then they serve and that's the reason why they have to taking again what they serve *smile* or struggle with it.
  • @Hanzee - I have no idea what that sentence means.

    @Azidonis - Unless you totally change the Constitution, term limits need to follow current term lengths. Senators are elected for 6 year terms, representatives for 2 year terms, the president for a 4 year term. I think two terms for senators and three terms for representatives (we already have a 2 term limit for the president) are perfectly reasonable.

    Outlawing lobbying is tricky. The First Amendment is interpreted pretty broadly (in most cases), but I think it could be done within the limits of that law.
  • I guess its not that important *smile*
  • @Hanzee - I have no idea what that sentence means.

    @Azidonis - Unless you totally change the Constitution, term limits need to follow current term lengths. Senators are elected for 6 year terms, representatives for 2 year terms, the president for a 4 year term. I think two terms for senators and three terms for representatives (we already have a 2 term limit for the president) are perfectly reasonable.

    Outlawing lobbying is tricky. The First Amendment is interpreted pretty broadly (in most cases), but I think it could be done within the limits of that law.
    Maybe instead of changing the constitution, they can just say no one can hold office for more than two terms?

  • IronRabbitIronRabbit Veteran
    edited October 2011
    Hanzze@ - are you NotAGangsta returned to #indubitably# confound us all????????

    Occupy is like National Health Care - doomed to fail. Occupy because there is no agenda - protest for protest's sake - disorganization masquerading as organization. Every point made by Occupy is painfully valid. So what? Claiming individuals with secure jobs (oxymoron) corporations and government don't care is naive. Each cares about their own survival above all else. They care alot. The coming revolution will increase that caring - and it will burgeon into the "clampdown" that is inevitable (witness Oakland) - replete with shootings, teargas, nightsticks, arrests, prosecutions, fines, sentences - and failure.

    The second American revolution? Presumably this refers to the Colonial revolt. Let's not forget the Civil War - a monumental revolution that failed (the revolt for secession failed, that is). The "Peace and Love" movement - a massive debacle. The Vietnam War - which protestors believe they ended - not so - it ran it's course despite protest - and failed (as will Iraq and Afghanistan - wait and see). (If Occupy is the genesis of a movement to disapprove of economic disparity - well - again, so what? The Great Depression is interpreted as socio-economic collapse historically. Where was the movement in the 1930's to restore the system? Was it the gangsters or the government that put the system back on track? Were they one and the same?

    Fact is, corporations are more profitable than ever - and despite the sentiment that they should "ante up and kick in" - their success is a hedge against collapse. The American Dream is a sweaty, pulse pounding nightmare now for all but the 1%. By design. Capitalism, remember? Occupy could serve better by educating the masses in austerity measures instead of making hollow demands.

    And so that we are clear on the medical racket - it is also naive to claim that Big Pharma does not hold undue influence over the hypocratically oathed medical "business". Profits on the backs of patients that are transformed into victims is an unavoidable fact. Statistcally, the third leading cause of human death after cancer and heart disease is "medical treatment".

    All this: just my opinion - and to qualify that - opinions are like assholes - everyone has one - and they all stink.....
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited October 2011
    So what is the alternative? Rebellion? If so you simply take the power away from one group and transfer it to another group who will eventually become like the first group. In the interim you will achieve chaos, much death and economic derailment. Utopian ideas anyone? Like communism, looks good on paper, but one ignores the fact that people in the end are evolved from animals and will continue to act as such. What I mean is on the whole, people are going to look out for themselves, not their fellow man or the good of a group or society. Like it or not people will work very hard for their own sake, not so much for joe down the road. Capitalism sucks in many ways but it does recognize what drives people and ultimately what drives success, a personal desire to succeed. What would I suggest:
    1. Take the money out of government. No lobbyist, no coporate sponsors, no money from private individuals. Each candidate that runs for office, that gets thier on a ballot, gets a block of money and some free air time. That's it. No campaigning for funds, no kickbacks.
    2. Term limits; max 8 years in office.
    3. Require that respective governments balance their budgets.
    4. Shrink the government.
    5. Shrink the military.
    6. Become an economic powerhouse. We should be engineering and creating goods to sale to the world. Economic power is what makes countries great, not military might, we got it backwards. We need to engineer some forward thinking innovations. Oil is going the way of the Dodo. Just think if we came up with strong reliable technologies that did away with gas and oil. Planes trains, autos machines that could run cleanly and not rely on petrolem. The world would buy these things. But as it stands, economically we are slipping. We have vast resources both from a material and a people perspective yet we are mired in debt, mired in wars, import almost everything and export very little. That's the malaise this country feels. We are slipping and we know it.
    All the best,
    Todd
  • edited October 2011
    I have always though there was only one way to get rid of ALL of these ills - and that is to completely rid the entire world of the current monetary system - to wipe ALL debts away - and start clean with some new (or maybe ancient) system altogether.

    I know, I know - almost everyone says "keep dreaming". But I honestly believe that until something like that happens, we will never be free of the suffering and misery the lust for wealth brings with it.


    Many blessings -

    Kwan Kev
  • Hanzze@ - are you NotAGangsta returned to #indubitably# confound us all????????
    I am not sure about your (your all) preconception, so it might be the wrong answer. I am not NotAGangsta but for sure I like to confound all your preconceptions. So if you call somebody who steals and rob things generally a gangster, I guess I could bear it to be called a gangster even I there is the intention to be not a Gangsta. *smile*

    We get what we serve *smile* even it would be nice and without problems it arises unpleasant in us.
  • Hanzze@ - are you NotAGangsta returned to #indubitably# confound us all????????
    I am not sure about your (your all) preconception, so it might be the wrong answer. I am not NotAGangsta but for sure I like to confound all your preconceptions. So if you call somebody who steals and rob things generally a gangster, I guess I could bear it to be called a gangster even I there is the intention to be not a Gangsta. *smile*

    We get what we serve *smile* even it would be nice and without problems it arises unpleasant in us.
    Its just that our esteemed former member NotAGangsta (before he was banned) was prone to posting utter nonsense - whether intentionally or not - and there seemed to be a comparison. Nothing personal, Hanzze, I actually understood portions of your last post - congratulations. I am beginning to understand why you post lengthy sutra posts now. Best of luck with the language and all. @groan@
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    My problem with all this is that when you have legit issues (and I think there are many here) the absurd hyperbole of revolution and conspiracy drives a wedge between the radicals and the moderates. I support #ows as long as they stay civil and keep the discourse anchored in reality. Posts like this do the movement little service.
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    edited October 2011
    but for sure I like to confound all your preconceptions.
    I'd aim for being less unctuous and irritating instead.
  • HanzzeHanzze Veteran
    edited October 2011
    That's maybe only a preconception to see it as unctuous and "irritating" is better as to give a beloved attachment.

    The different between usual revolution and the revolution Buddha suggested is to focus on the place where we can change the world and that are our thought which if attached to vedana (feelings/emotions out of preconception - rooting on "I" "you") might give rise to harming. *smile* Mostly it starts with harsh words.

    Maybe that story is useful regarding revolution:

    To Rule the Universe


    In the beginning, the gods and goddesses held an election to determine who would be best suited to rule the universe. The first candidate was Agnidevaputra, the God of Fire. “I am the strongest,” he said, “so I should rule. Witness my power.” Then, as he began to chant in a loud voice, a huge fire rose up from the center of the universe and began to burn everywhere. The other gods and goddesses trembled with fear, and they all raised their hands to elect Agnidevaputra. All, that is, except Valahakedeputra, the God of Water.
    Valahakedeputra said, “ I can control fire.” And immediately he created a huge deluge to extinguish the fire. As the floodwater rose higher and higher, all the deities raised their hands to vote for him, except Saradadevi, the Goddess of Art and Wisdom.
    Saradadevi said, “ Dear friends, fire and water can frighten and kill people, but I give birth to beauty. When I begin to dance, you will relax and completely forget about fire and water.” Saradadevi then danced and sang, and all the gods and goddesses became entranced. Instead of drinking water through their mouths, they began pouring wine into their ears, eyes, and noses. Awed by Saradadevi’s power, all of the deities raised their hands, except Gandharva, the God of Celestial Music.
    Gandharva said, “Woman can overcome man, but man can also overcome woman.” Then he began to play his heavenly guitar and sing, and all the deities swooned as the music flowed through the hall. As if in a stupor, they all raised their hands, except Santidevaputra, the God of Peace, Mindfulness, and Clear Comprehension.
    Santidevaputra said, “I am the God of Peace. I always practice mindfulness and clear comprehension. Whether you vote for me or not, I rule myself. To rule the universe, you must first rule yourself. To rule yourself, you must be able to rule your own mind. To rule your own mind, you must practice mindfulness and clear comprehension.”
    All of the gods and goddesses recognized Santidevaputra’s strength and elected him unanimously. They understood that peace is the strongest force in the world.

    from "step by step" by Maha Ghosanandha


    Its really time for an real revolution in our hearts. Taking side is not the way. *smile*
  • edited October 2011
    I'm surprised nobody mentioned:
    "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." - Declaration of Independence

    Revolutions, however, are usually pretty violent and bloody. Even non-violent resistance is sometimes bloody, such as the assassination of Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. @Lincoln makes a very good point about how divisive and absurd revolutionary "hyperbole" is. The United States, however, was founded upon revolutionary hyperbole. The thing about revolutions is that they usually tend to just be political, in that people usually only end up taking up arms to execute one set of leaders in order to put a set of new rulers in their place. These guys sometimes even end up being worse than the last. The problem with political revolutions is that they are always bloody, and they always stop short of altering the whole character of society.

    The only surprising thing about #ows is that it didn't happen sooner. The thing is, even this recent movement is steeped in American tradition. Andrew Jackson called the Second Bank of the United States an "undemocratic, hydra monster". There were the anti-trust and labor movements in America, not to mention the Wall Street crash of 1929, the Great Depression, and the New Deal.

    The thing about the "money in politics", is that it doesn't just affect those of us in the States - like AIG using taxpayer's bailout money to pay for executive bonuses. Major oil companies, for example, have worked in joint ventures with dictators to ensure access to their vast petroleum resources. General Sani Abacha's regime in Nigeria was pretty much supported by the wealth of Royal Dutch Shell, Mobil and Chevron.

    I am sure that nobody wants yet another bloody revolution that won't even solve anything, but eventually some things will have to change. If people are inspired to mobilize like #ows, perhaps change will be inevitable. Eventually, the political class will have to keep up with the will of the people. Especially if their own government is founded upon the right to revolution.
  • This thoughts might arise if we think that a leader is not subject to the same problems like others. *smile*

    The will of the people is pleasure and the talent of a leader is to share a minimum of it that people don't start to think about revolution, but to work on them self.
    Its not easy to transport that pleasure is not peace. It must be understood step by step.
    Its easy to entertain children if you have enough resources to give them constantly new toys to play. But if the resources run out you need to start to explain. That's the day when people start to make a revolution. And again they seek for another hero who shares them toys. *smile*

    We should not forget that even Gandhi's peaceful revolution caused hundred thousands of death. Real revolution is a lonesome way.
  • edited October 2011
    @Hanzee, I didn't know you were the spokesman for the people. Eventually, those children grow older and grow weary of new toys. Of course rulers are subject to their own problems. That's the thing. They used to justify their governance by divine right. The point of any revolution is that yes, they are people. Yes, the system is flawed. Yes, people can work together and fundamentally change the whole of society.

    Eventually, those "children" grow into angst-driven teenagers, and rebel. Then they will grow older and ask themselves, "Why is this crap still going on?"
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