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If Buddha said that God was an Imponderable what does this say about Christianity?

BeachHouseGuyBeachHouseGuy
edited November 2011 in Faith & Religion
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Comments

  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    edited November 2011
    ...

    some_text
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Buddha remained silent about God. That's what it says.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited November 2011
    Buddha remained silent about God. That's what it says.
    Personally, I think the Buddha was a lot more critical of the idea of an eternal self and an eternal and/or creator god than many people realize, e.g., DN 1 is fairly critical of both views.

  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    lol gate
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Jason that is talking about eternalism and I will point out that there are other interpretations of God than eternalistic ones. I am thinking of mystical negative theology.

    I understand that when 'christianity' is mentioned one thinks of a popular sect. However when God is mentioned there are a range of possible beliefs.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    Jason that is talking about eternalism and I will point out that there are other interpretations of God than eternalistic ones. I am thinking of mystical negative theology.

    I understand that when 'christianity' is mentioned one thinks of a popular sect. However when God is mentioned there are a range of possible beliefs.
    Sure, and many of those are addressed by the Buddha, as well.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Jason, that may be. I was just pointing out that the passage you sited referred to eternalism rather than 'god'.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Let's look on the bright side: If you took all the time currently expended on imponderables and put it into practice, why, you'd be enlightened in no time flat...instead of pondering things like 'enlightenment.' :)
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited November 2011
    Jason, that may be. I was just pointing out that the passage you sited referred to eternalism rather than 'god'.
    It refers to much more than just that, actually.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Also buddha just says (in jasons sutra) that an eternalist view leads to a future rebirth (as far as I can tell). He doesn't give a logical reason he just relates:

    "36. "This, bhikkhus, the Tathāgata understands. And he understands: 'These standpoints, thus assumed and thus misappre­hended, lead to such a future destination, to such a state in the world beyond.' He understands as well what transcends this, yet even that understanding he does not misapprehend. And because he is free from misapprehension, he has realized within himself the state of perfect peace. Having understood as they really are the origin and the passing away of feelings, their satisfaction, their unsatisfactoriness, and the escape from them, the Tathāgata, bhikkhus, is emancipated through non-clinging.

    37. "These are those dhammas, bhikkhus, that are deep, difficult to see, difficult to understand, peaceful and sublime, beyond the sphere of reasoning, subtle, comprehensible only to the wise, which the Tathāgata, having realized for himself with direct knowledge, propounds to others; and it is concerning these that those who would rightly praise the Tathāgata in accordance with reality would speak."

    Thus buddha just states that he is free of misaprehension and that eternalists go to a future destiination. So buddha is merely declaring himself not-misapprehending. He is saying "buddha is right".
  • dorjedorje
    To the OP:

    It doesn't really say much to anyone except to Buddhists, IMHO. It just tells Buddhists that belief in an eternal unchanging god doesn't advance us as a person. Neither does negating that belief.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited November 2011
    Christianity has different teachings than Buddhism, and those who follow Christianity would oppose what the Buddha taught as far as God is concerned. It's best to leave each person to their own beliefs, and to worry about our own beliefs and goals.

    If we follow the Buddhist teachings, that's our choice. To judge other religions based on what the Buddha taught is unskillful at best. It's for the purposes of liberation that the Buddha taught what he did, and so it has no bearing on Christianity or any other religion.

    If anything, we should understand what the Buddha meant as it applies to Buddhism alone, to the path of liberation and to skillful karma. We should understand the causes of beliefs and that everyone has had different experiences that have led them to where they are today. We should exercise compassion on those who suffer and act skillfully toward the alleviation of suffering, but we shouldn't judge their beliefs or their religion.
  • I_AM_THATI_AM_THAT Veteran
    Why judge what Christians think... does it really matter?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Many many Buddhists sit and cogitate on imponderables, in spite of many other Buddhists trying to point out to them that what they're wasting time on, is imponderable. Yet they still insist that it's worth considering.
    If the Buddha said that the Laws of kamma are imponderable, what does this say about Buddhists?
  • YishaiYishai Veteran
    Many many Buddhists sit and cogitate on imponderables, in spite of many other Buddhists trying to point out to them that what they're wasting time on, is imponderable. Yet they still insist that it's worth considering.
    If the Buddha said that the Laws of kamma are imponderable, what does this say about Buddhists?
    That most Buddhists are focusing on the wrong "stuff"? At this rate, we will never be enlightened. There is a reason the Buddha said certain things were imponderable. He wanted us to focus on the ponderable, or so I would think.
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited November 2011
    "An ancient verse ascribed to the Buddha in the Questions of King Milinda says:

    Not far from here do you need to look!
    Highest existence — what can it avail?
    Here in this present aggregate,
    In your own body overcome the world!"

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nyanaponika/godidea.html
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Many many Buddhists sit and cogitate on imponderables, in spite of many other Buddhists trying to point out to them that what they're wasting time on, is imponderable. Yet they still insist that it's worth considering.
    If the Buddha said that the Laws of kamma are imponderable, what does this say about Buddhists?
    That most Buddhists are focusing on the wrong "stuff"? At this rate, we will never be enlightened. There is a reason the Buddha said certain things were imponderable. He wanted us to focus on the ponderable, or so I would think.
    That's for us to deal with, within Buddhism. We have enough problems helping and supporting one another, without having to be concerned what a belief in God, says about Christians.
    Let us, to quote a certain passage, take the plank out of our own eye, before we remove the splinter from that of another.

    (Matthew 7, The Sermon on the Mount: A whole load of stuff about Judgement and Discernment.)

    http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/4007.htm

    Say what you like about the Bible, but JC was spot-on with this lot.

  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    Many many Buddhists sit and cogitate on imponderables, in spite of many other Buddhists trying to point out to them that what they're wasting time on, is imponderable. Yet they still insist that it's worth considering.
    If the Buddha said that the Laws of kamma are imponderable, what does this say about Buddhists?
    Set up a Buddhist forum, and people will ponder. Human nature, I guess. :-/

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited November 2011
    Exactly. Human.
    Not Christian, not Buddhist.
    Human.

    It takes all sorts, so I guess we can't isolate Christianity from Buddhism, with regard to this preponderance......
  • omnidimensionalism1omnidimensionalism1
    It matters not what we are or what we believe.... destiny would have it that we are all shaped by life in such away that we all (through many lifetimes) make our way like a trickle, a stream, a river to the source the ocean.....the ocean of awakening.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    destiny....?

    I don't think so..... :scratch:
  • omnidimensionalism1omnidimensionalism1
    'destiny' maybe not the right word.... such a pity we have to use them..... instead try 'it happens' that we all eventually head to the source because we learn so much from many lifetimes
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I would agree... Destiny is not the right word.... :)
    Actions - Volitional, non-volitional and neutral, are what bring us forward.
    Intention - is all.....
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