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Atheism and meaning(lessness)
SattvaPaul
South Wales, UK Veteran
Well, today I am attracted more to the atheist view, due to not being able to square some elements of Buddhism like relics and so forth with my understanding. Also watching some Dawkins on YouTube contributed to that :P
I think my main fear if I was to adopt this worldview - which seems most reasonable at the moment - would be a feeling of total meaninglessness. It would seem there is no direction in anything. The world would look like a soul-less machine. I could probably find some scientific basis for morality, in order to avoid wrong actions and going to jail. Not sure if I would continue with meditation, after all it's just chemical changes in the brain. In short I would probably have no reason to live, other than perhaps seeking pleasure.
So how do atheists do it? How do they find meaning in the world?
I think my main fear if I was to adopt this worldview - which seems most reasonable at the moment - would be a feeling of total meaninglessness. It would seem there is no direction in anything. The world would look like a soul-less machine. I could probably find some scientific basis for morality, in order to avoid wrong actions and going to jail. Not sure if I would continue with meditation, after all it's just chemical changes in the brain. In short I would probably have no reason to live, other than perhaps seeking pleasure.
So how do atheists do it? How do they find meaning in the world?
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Comments
If you don't believe in God, or you consider yourself "agnostic" or whatever, you are already an Atheist. Atheism is only the lack of belief in a God. It is not nihilism. It is not believing in evolution. It is not denying that God it exists. Atheism is simply the personal rejection of a belief in a deity. Nothing more, nothing less.
Or are you just teasing?
No I don't have to believe in God, but I have to believe in some sort of meaning/order/enlightenment. You get my drift.
Do you believe thoughts are epiphenomenon of a mechanical brain? Isn't it weird that a mechanical brain leads to an experience?
http://www.iamanatheist.com/
Welcome to the club.
Being an Atheist doesn't mean you don't get to believe in rebirth, or reincarnation, or order or complexity, or meaning or purpose. It is only means you lack a belief in a god. I think what you're fighting is nihilism, IMO.
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Dawkins or Hitchens or whoever do not think life is meaningless, by the way. Of course not. Life is ultimately what you make it. You give it meaning. Do I believe that I am just merely atoms and chemical processes? Yes, yes I do, but that doesn't mean I, or you, or anything is worthless simply because of that.
But still, in my all-or-nothing-thinking, I'm inclined to buy the whole package of what science says. Depressing though it is. Maybe my reasoning is flawed.
I am an Agnostic Atheist. I don't believe there is a God, but I don't deny the fact that I have no idea and there very well could be a god. I just don't know.
Same goes for souls, unicorns, reincarnation, devas, heaven, hell, and anything else. They could exist. Its not impossible. We don't know, and science is working on trying to find out. The key is having an open mind. Sometimes militant Gnostic Theism like Richard Dawkins has isn't always a good thing.
I think you're right, I'm probably talking about nihilism.
When I find a slightest flaw in say Buddhism (as I understand it), the whole thing falls apart. Then I have no choice but to embrace the scientific worldview, which I can't refute so easily. Then it leads to nihilism. :eek2:
Well you're not that hardcore if you're merely an agnostic. You have to work on that one
Seriously though, I think I'm so tired working out what could be true or not, that I'm inclined to throw away all religion, including Buddhism.
The falling into nihilism is a common problem with thinkers who dabble in buddhism as a philosophy. If we have a meditation practice and perform charitable deeds, then the meaning is very obvious and experiential. When we connect to others through mindful thought and speech, as well as a spacious mind, meaning is very, very available.
Conceptually, helping other people is only a fanciful notion. When we actually invest our energy into compassionate acts toward others, the reward is immediate and tangible. We can observe how our actions influence our environment, and the resonant warmth that arises is impossible to ignore as a noble intent.
First, belief or lack of belief is not a choice once you've opened your mind to rational thinking and your belief now requires evidence. I can't decide to suddenly start believing in a Heaven just because it would make me feel better to know good people are rewarded. Nor do I have to be agnostic about something. I can believe God does not exist as people imagine it to be until evidence shows otherwise, because we know enough about how the mind works to understand why people keep inventing gods and demons and aliens and fairies to explain the mysterious world in action.
But that leaves your question about lack of meaning without a God. Stop and ponder how little meaning your life has, if you are nothing but a plaything of a God. Your purpose in life would be to worship and obey him, apparently, and your life is meaningless except as a launching pad for an eternity spent in Heaven singing His praises. No matter how much this God "loves you", you cannot have a meeting of minds. I love my dog, and it worships me, but it remains a dog in spite of its best efforts. This is true nihilism: to believe our human achievements and goals and aspirations mean nothing, and our only purpose is to grovel before God. It always mystifies me how believers can claim this somehow adds meaning to their life.
No, to look naked at the infinite universe and marvel at the unadorned miracle of a human consciousness able to encompass this near-infinite reality is to make our lives precious and meaningful, because we know this is a fleeting thing and our lives have to mean something when they're lived, not be squandered for some mythical afterlife reward.
Hope this helps.
You make some good points. But let me clarify a bit what I had in mind.
First, I wasn't saying that it's the lack of belief in God that would make the universe and my life meaningless. I was referring to atheism more as lack of belief in anything supernatural, that is anything that can't be explained or inferred by modern science. Luckily @MindGate came to the rescue and pointed out that atheism simply means lack of belief in a God/deity. But in a Buddhist sense, I'm talking about something like Stephen Batchelor's "atheism".
So the bottom line is I can't explain some things about Buddhism that don't seem to add up (interestingly, I have no problem with rebirth whatsoever).
Now, whether belief is a choice or not is an interesting one. I believe (
I'm not good in constructing an argument here, but hopefully you see what I'm getting at.
the mind makes and seeks meaning, thus it meaning only exists in the realm of mind.
meaning is a projection from the mind. it cannot exist inherently in reality. if it did, then there would be absolutely no change and drive.
to accept the mystery is to accept that life is neither meaningless nor meaningful.
it is just what it is.
I respectfully ask where in Buddhism is meaning of the universe mentioned. I am not a student of the sutras and base a huge part of my understanding of reality on a point of view that I understand to be compatible with Buddhism that there is no meaning of the universe. That meaning is assigned by the mind and therefore is subjective.
Regards,
Gui
Also, one could view workings of karma as having meaning, as in there is a moral fabric to the universe which corresponds to your actions. It's not just randomness. It's an implicit order of cause and effect.