Penn State football program sex scandal

Jeffrey

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/08/opinion/jones-penn-state/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn


This is dismaying as penn state had always been respected as a football program who cared about its athletes and set academic and moral standards perhaps.

The thought occured to me was that we could say 'big ten' (conference) scandal and that would then influence public opinion of the Big Ten. Even though the other schools in the big ten are not connected to this scandal. Just as 'buddhism' as a whole is not corrupt just because of individual programs or teachers. Or students for that matter.

I am curious what Joe Paterno knew about the incident. He should know that if its serious enough to not allow that person in a building that there probably is something wrong going on. Again this is dismaying I hope Paterno was not involved I would be surprised and dismayed to hear that.

I think the same thing is at work (as in buddhist and other scandals). Hiding from the police information due to fear of looking bad. In football it could hurt money donated to the school or recruiting.

genkaku

For those who take a more than superficial interest in this story, I recommend the grand jury report on defensive coordinator Gerald Sandusky's apparent abuse of eight then-little boys. The report is gritty in its details, but between the lines it also tells a tale much like the tale of the Catholic Church in its pedophile adventures -- an insidious willingness to pass the buck, not take responsibility, not rat on a buddy and protect a multi-million-dollar enterprise (read 'integrity' or the institution).

Floating_Abu

Enough to make me sick. But a good report, I would say, good job to them. And thanks for looking into it.

Dakini

I've seen this pattern before. A guy sets up some charitable project for needy boys, and is hailed in the media and society as a hero. Years later, it turns out that the project was a front for his pedophelia. I don't know how to guard against this sort of thing, other than for parents to be alert and observant of the benefactor's behavior, and of any change in their child's behavior.

DaltheJigsaw

Crazy stuff!

zenff

As an organization, working with children, I think you need to create some safety-mechanisms against sexual abuse and you need a solid protocol when suspicions arise.

You just need to think in advance about what you can do to prevent it and what you can do to stop it when it happens anyway.

That doesn’t mean you don’t trust the people involved. If you wouldn’t trust them, you shouldn’t put them in the position in the first place.
But you have to face the fact that trust is not good enough. It can fail. It fails too often.
Trust people, but check on them anyway. Make them understand it’s nothing personal. There are just rules in your organization; and they make sense; so people have to take them seriously.

Cinorjer

Such a sad example of how our fears twist our actions, and how the human mind has an infinite capacity to justify our actions.

Scandal. The dirtiest word in the english language.

An undergraduate witnesses something horrible. He knows its horrible, because he actually does something, instead of pretending he didn't see anything, what many other people must have done. What, you think this one time, a naked little boy in the public showers was seen?

But an undergraduate with hopes of being hired by the university certainly can't be the name behind a huge scandal. "Doing the right thing" does not mean you will be rewarded in this case. His future would be destroyed. Anyone who knows institutions knows this sad truth. So he takes it to his boss. Now his conscious is clear. He did the right thing, without costing himself a future in football.

So now his boss has the same problem. Does he confront the guy? Then what does he do if the guy swears it's not true, like he certainly will? As the coach, his own name will get connected to the scandal if he calls the police. "Oh yeah, I heard of him. Wasn't he the one accused his assistant coach of screwing a boy that one year? No wonder the University fired him first chance they got." So he passes the problem to the University, still secret so the scandal doesn't happen.

And so it goes. And every one of these people promptly put the boy out of their mind, since they'd "done the right thing" according to their mind's ability to justify their actions. And their jobs and the reputation of the team and University were secure.

See, none of these people believe they did anything wrong at all. In their minds, they really are all victims. Not even the pedophile thinks he did anything wrong. His sick mind tells him "Hey, the boys actually enjoy this!" The real victims, the boys, can even be taught that they somehow deserved it, in the end.

An infinite capacity to justify our actions. But we also have an infinite capacity to justify the actions of our heros. Thus the sick rioting over a coach being told he has to leave. And will we learn anything? No. The same kind of people face the same bosses interested only in keeping "scandal" from happening every day in every organization.

Mountains

The sad part of that if we didn't turn colege football into a religion and a major industry (and a major revenue stream for the university), likely this kind of thing would never have happened. Living as close to Virginia Tech as I do, I see the same kind of religious fervor around the football team, and t makes me sick.

Jeffrey

Yeah thats a good point Mountains. And Virginia Tech had Michael Vick who had a hobby of betting on his own pitbull dogs (or whatever) and had them fight to the death as entertainment. He is in uniform playing football earning millions of dollars now. His dogs have been taken by a rescue operation and they are being rehabilitated.

Floating_Abu

Gross. *closes eyes*

These people really need some help...hm.

Jeffrey

Its not all football players though I am convinced. Just some.

Floating_Abu

Jerry Sandusky Interview Angers Mother of Alleged Victim

Floating_Abu

It is sickening.

zombiegirl

ugh what a creep. if they don't find him guilty i will probably lose all faith in our legal system. after seeing the interview between him and bob costas, i really have no doubt that he's lying. he's not even good at it.

"am i sexually attracted to young boys? uh... no... i enjoy the company of young people..." oh give me a break.

compassionate_warrior

Its not all football players though I am convinced. Just some.

lol ! This is becoming a regular refrain with you: "It's not all (fill in blank), just some". True enough.

Yes, the problem is that pedophiles seek out jobs that bring them into contact with children. So it's not that we have to be on our guard with sports coaches, or priests or teachers, because they tend to be "like that". It's that pedophiles can be anywhere, where kids congregate. The shopping mall Santa, the juvenile detention officer, maybe even pediatricians, though I've never heard of any cases in that profession. It's a sad world. But at least society is talking about it, the issue gets aired. There was a time when public talk of this was taboo, which made it easier for the perps to hide and get away with their activities. There was a time when children weren't believed on this score.

Jeffrey

I agree compassionate-warrior, any time you have adults over children it can happen. Even parents and their children.

Dakini

Speaking of juvenile detention officers, there's a facility here in NM where the officers were harassing women employees, and even having sex on the job with some of the employees. One of the women blew the whistle on inappropriate behavior, even assaults, happening at work, and on what she observed to be inappropriate body searches of some of the kids. It's going through federal court right now. But how gross is that? It sounds like the officers had created their own little hidden world, and got away with whatever they wanted.

Now, is anyone going to argue that blowing the whistle is wrong speech? I hope not.

Jeffrey

When I was admitted to the mental wing of a hospital the hulking security officer said "I cannot rape you because there are cameras"... I was like 'what the heck'? I think I am kind of naive about what behaviours can happen.

Floating_Abu

:shake:

Floating_Abu

Jeffrey are you serious as well for your one?

genkaku

I received in email this statement from SNAP (the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests). It points out the obvious similarities between the pedophile scandals at Penn State University, The Citadel and the Roman Catholic Church. The almost lock-step similarities in these (and other unmentioned) instances of sexual abuse is pretty informative.

Floating_Abu

If anything I think it points to the very serious culpability of those whom cover up and do not report abuses that they have become aware of.

In the Penn report, one of the most sickening aspects for me personally was how people consistently covered it up. Point blank. That type of culpability stinks to the high heavens IMO and it should be known that it has serious consequences also. I hope the Penn case reflects this because those who covered it up had and have a direct hand in those crimes as well, I feel.

Namaste.

Dakini

OMG! Jeffrey!! *hug* Thank heavens for surveillance cameras, eh? This totally changes how I think about them! We may resent them for their intrusiveness (Big Brother is watching...), but they save lives, deter crime, and also help law enforcement identify criminals. What kind of sick people work in these institutions? I've seen reports of employees in facilities for the handicapped who take advantage of helpless people that way. And when they're discovered, they just get transferred to another facility, rather than fired, unless a reporter finds out eventually, and makes a big deal out of it. AACKKKK!!

Floating_Abu

I think Jeffrey may have a weird sense of ..

compassionate_warrior

This is not a joking matter. I have no doubt Jeffrey's serious. I'm a little disturbed that a statement like his would be denied. PM him if you want to discuss it.

Jeffrey

Sorry @Floating_Abu I don't understand you. That was not a complete sentence.

Ah thanks CW yeah its true. Right when I was being processed, given a gown and so forth. He said it in earshot of other workers too. I don't think he planned on raping me but it is disturbing that was on his mind. I was kinda afraid to go to sleep with my roomate, but he turned out really cool ex-doctor and Christian who helped all the other patients out a lot.

Floating_Abu

I just noted that the Penn State Football programme made over 50 million MILLION yes dollars profit last year, with 70 million in revenue.

Excuse me while I throw up.

Jeffrey

Believe it or not often boosters donate even more money. Alumni and they donate more money depending on the ranking of the team I imagine. Also believe it or not many prospective students (more dollar signs :-/ ) choose a school in part to watch a good football team.

Floating_Abu

Yeah I was reading some comments from people whom live in / have family in these schools. Wow, another thing I have learnt about living in the States

Floating_Abu

Quotes from Article -

The ability schools have to make decisions internally and utilize in-house departments is what allowed a Penn State football player to admit in a campus judicial proceeding in December 2002 to raping a fellow student during the fall semester, but not to have his punishment — a two-semester suspension — kick in until after he played in a January bowl game.


The most egregious case to date took place at Eastern Michigan University in 2006 when administrators were found to have covered up the rape and murder of a student, letting her parents think she had died of natural causes. The university was fined $350,000, the largest fine ever paid under the Clery Act. (A lawsuit forced Eastern Michigan to pay the victim's family an additional $2.5 million.)

Crime on Campus: Penn State Raises Question, Do Colleges Have Too Much Power?

compassionate_warrior

@Floating_Abu Do you know definitively how university-related rapes are handled in your country? Like any other crime, with charges filed with the police? I'm trying to process this information you've posted. Due to these protective laws for universities, the student had the confidence to admit to the crime, knowing he wouldn't go to federal prison for doing so. If, on the other hand, the victim had filed criminal charges with the police, the perpetrator likely would have fought the accusation in court, saying the sex was consensual. The case may well have ended with the perp being absolved if there was insufficient proof, as there so often is in such cases. Either outcome is an outrage.

but he turned out really cool ex-doctor and Christian who helped all the other patients out a lot.

Nice story. Thanks for posting some good news on this thread. It sounds like you won the roommate lottery!

Completely off-topic: Christians and Buddhists can get along. The Dalai Lama and Bishop Desmond Tutu are best friends. And Jeffrey thought his Christian roommate was cool.

Dakini

I'm starting to come to the conclusion that rape and molestation have been around since the dawn of time, and always will be. At least we can improve the way such cases are handled, and work on improving the justice system.

*sigh*

Jeffrey, do you think that employee in the hospital where you were might have been making a sick joke? What an introduction to hospital care! Not funny!

Floating_Abu

@Floating_Abu Do you know definitively how university-related rapes are handled in your country? Like any other crime, with charges filed with the police? I'm trying to process this information you've posted. Due to these protective laws for universities, the student had the confidence to admit to the crime, knowing he wouldn't go to federal prison for doing so. If, on the other hand, the victim had filed criminal charges with the police, the perpetrator likely would have fought the accusation in court, saying the sex was consensual. The case may well have ended with the perp being absolved if there was insufficient proof, as there so often is in such cases. Either outcome is an outrage.

Hi c_w

I am not definitively certain (i.e.I have not looked into it directly) but I do know that we do not have 'University police' or separate University legal context. ie. any crime conducted in any place INCLUDING a University etc would simply follow the normal laws ie. applicable to everyone.

There are no special provisions that I am aware of that protect or hinder or help institutions like Universities and their associated staff etc. If a crime happened in a University, I am pretty sure that the next process would have to be handing it over to the legal jurisdiction - ie. criminal cases are tried and tested and handled within the criminal law system without exception (unless there are cover ups like in the Penn case).

Hope that helps? To your other statement, I have often had the impression that rape cases are hard cases to prosecute anyway. Hard in terms of the emotional stress and turmoil and general painting of character/intent by the defence lawyers etc. It does not mean that it should not be done of course i.e. the prosecution of these perpetrators.

Best wishes,
Abu

compassionate_warrior

@Floating_Abu Yes, I understand they've very difficult cases to prosecute for a variety of reasons. I wonder if the US custom of having university campuses that are almost self-sufficient communities unto themselves leads to a higher incidence of sex crimes, and also is the reason for a separate campus police force.

Dakini

I have often had the impression that rape cases are hard cases to prosecute anyway. Hard in terms of the emotional stress and turmoil and general painting of character/intent by the defence lawyers etc. It does not mean that it should not be done of course i.e. the prosecution of these perpetrators.

It's an extremely difficult process to go through, not everyone can handle it. And if the case is decided against the plaintiff, that result can be very traumatic.

zombiegirl

I have often had the impression that rape cases are hard cases to prosecute anyway. Hard in terms of the emotional stress and turmoil and general painting of character/intent by the defence lawyers etc. It does not mean that it should not be done of course i.e. the prosecution of these perpetrators.

It's an extremely difficult process to go through, not everyone can handle it. And if the case is decided against the plaintiff, that result can be very traumatic.

typically speaking, semen from a rape kit is the only REAL proof one can provide. and of course, in this case, there was no rape kit. in most rapes there aren't due to the traumatic nature of the crime, not everyone comes forward within that window. from personal experience, sometimes it just takes a while to wrap your mind around what just happened. but with any sort of eye witness testimony/self testimony there is a certain amount of doubt that goes along with it. take a look at the michael jackson cases. to this day, there are still people out there claiming that the kids did it for the money. what a horrible thing to say/think. i don't doubt that some people out there might even say the same thing about this case due to his high profile, but the whole idea that people claim rape falsely is a grossly exaggerated problem.

it's disgusting to me that this guy is still claiming that nothing happened, therefore, forcing his victims to relive the trauma on the stand. i think he at least owes them enough to settle this without that horror. but then again... i'm sure i'm expecting far too much from such a person.

Dakini

I've wondered about rape kits as evidence. They don't prove the sex wasn't consensual. Only if the nurses find signs of force would it make for a stronger case. And you're right, ZG, this is what I've found in my research about clergy rape; the effect of trauma is to completely disorient and confuse the victim. I think the human mind isn't equipped to deal with trauma. A lot of people don't understand this ("how could she not know she was raped?!"), so public education on this is needed.

The guy is claiming that nothing happened? In that one incident in the gym shower, or over the course of his career working with youth? How many boys (now adults, most of them probably) have stepped forward? I haven't been following this, I haven't seen it in the newspapers.

zombiegirl

The guy is claiming that nothing happened? In that one incident in the gym shower, or over the course of his career working with youth? How many boys (now adults, most of them probably) have stepped forward? I haven't been following this, I haven't seen it in the newspapers.

unless something new happened, i saw an interview just a few days ago where he said it was just "horseplay" ...this is apparently his defense.

at about 5 minutes in, jerry sandusky calls in and gives a phone interview:

Dakini

But there was a witness, so I think he's toast. In that one case, anyway. Thanks for posting this, I'll take a look.

Jeffrey

I think he'll probably get 80 days in jail and a fine.

compassionate_warrior

Good video. Interesting that the lawyer found one of the victims, when the state authorities couldn't. What do you think he said to that kid, to convince him to say the incident never happened? I'm surprised it would even be allowed for the defense to contact a victim. The possibility of intimidation would be an obvious concern. It will be interesting to watch this go through court. With so many witnesses and victims, I wouldn't expect he'd be given nothing more than a slap on the wrist. I hope our world isn't so unjust.