Do you think psychiatry/psychiatrists is/are full of crap for lack of a better word?

ravkes

I went to a psychiatrist today at my college. I had struggled with a gambling problem and recent depressive episodes due to various factors. I filled out a stupid & simple questionnaire about how in the last 2 weeks I have felt depressed..

..and yeah I have good reason to feel sad - lost money gambling, got out of an abusive relationship, my 'friends' think I'm a failure and are mean instead of supportive - they don't take me seriously, latent symptoms of drug use..

So after I met this guy and told him about all my issues. He did a few things. He kept smiling like an idiot, gave me some BS "mind, body, soul" thing that he follows. Told me that I should watch a movie. He didn't give any constructive advice on my issues. But magically, after 30 minutes of hearing his BS he said oh hey I'm going to put you on prozac. I asked him - so what does Prozac do? He said it's an ssri - that's supposed to increase seratonin levels. I said - how do you test for that? He said oh we can't but uhh it's like a migraine you can't test for that but we give you drugs for it. He also slyly said well hey it's probably less harmful than the drugs you took.

Honestly, that's the WEAKEST logic I've ever heard for taking something that alters brain chemistry - it's about as weak as the logic I used when I used to experiment with drugs.

Anyways, a combination of poor diagnosis, low knowledge levels and a sense of a BS sales pitch from this guy made me shy away from taking what he prescribed me. I have never had any serious problems with depression aside from what happened recently - the problems for the past year that I used to have were due to external factors. Now that I've gotten the external factors out of my life I think I am going in the right direction.

Do you think my reasoning is sound in this situation? Do you have any more knowledge on what these ssri's do? Do you think that Psychiatrists have the right to prescribe these drugs without correct diagnosis?

I'd like to hear your opinion on my situation and whether or not you think Psychiatrists and Psychiatry in general is a field that is still based on assumptions.

(btw, this Psychiatrist is not just any old psychiatrist.. he's on the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology)

Thanks!!

praxis

Anyways, a combination of poor diagnosis, low knowledge levels and a sense of a BS sales pitch from this guy made me shy away from taking what he prescribed me.

Good for you, Ravkes. I do believe that psychiatry can be very helpful ... but there are good and not so good professionals in every field. Medication should be the last resort, clearly.

compassionate_warrior

It can take a lot of trial and error to separate the wheat from the chaff. Also, psychiatrists are trained to prescribe meds. That's not all they do, but I'm saying that they have a medical background, and they use it. Psychologists don't. I'd guess that a psychologist could be more appropriate for you. Try going back to the counseling center and asking if you can have a list of all the practitioners and their specialties. The receptionist might get thrown by that question, but it's a perfectly reasonable one. (When I was in college, a friend went in for counseling, and asked if they had any Jungian practitioners, and the receptionist had no idea what he was talking about. ) Then you can look things over and make at least a semi-informed choice. If there is no list, ask the receptionist if they have any psychologists, because the psychiatrist didn't work out.

About feeling sad; actually, getting out of an abusive relationship is something to pat yourself on the back for. It's a step in the right direction, no matter how painful the process may have been. Friends: get new friends, nice people who support you. Did the shrink know you gamble sometimes, and show "latent symptoms of drug use"? There are some elements here that someone could interpret as possible symptoms of manic-depression. Think about it; do you experience highs, where you feel on top of the world, and maybe feel like you're coming into a "lucky streak", so you gamble? Then a low follows? Or not. Just something to think about.

What a good psychologist could do for you is help you get to the root of the symptoms you've listed here. Any childhood/parental issues? But some university clinics aren't set up for deep work like that. Some are set up just to help you get through some temporary crisis, like failing a class, or breaking up with a girlfriend. Some universities have two clinics: one for short-term crises, one for long-term therapy.

Psychology and psychiatry really help people, but you have to find a good match. That's easier said than done. Hopefully here you'll find something helpful. Give us an update if something works out for you.

DaltheJigsaw

It depends of course. On you, the psychiatrist and all that jazz. Try another psychiatrist, perhaps...?

Jeffrey

Psychiatrists are prone to give quickfixes. They are usually not very adept socially. You should see a psychologist and tell him exactly what you said in the OP.

Find one who you DO think is good.

compassionate_warrior

Psychiatrists are not very adept socially.

Really! Why would that be?
You're full of interesting news tonight!

Jeffrey

I should have said in general.

compassionate_warrior

OK, but why? Seriously, I'm intrigued.

Jeffrey

I base it on my experience :buck: I could be wrong. From ravkes description it would apply to his experience. The psychiatrist did not sound like a bidirectional listener/conversationalist and thus I would say he ( the psychiatrist) was awkward.

compassionate_warrior

The psychiatrist did not sound like a bidirectional listener/conversationalist and thus I would say he ( the psychiatrist) was awkward.

I've noticed that with doctors. They're used to being "the experts", as in: "Me talk, you listen". You're right. But this is how misdiagnoses and medical errors are made. The psychiatrist didn't dedicate enough time to really understanding ravkes' situation, he should have been asking questions and letting ravkes talk. That fake smile sounds stange, too.

Welcome to the world of arrogant professionals, ravkes. Keep trying, though.

compassionate_warrior

To answer some of your other questions, sri's are addictive. They're not for short-term use. They're for clinical depression, not just a couple of bad weeks. I think it's fair to say they're over-prescribed these days. I think you have a handle on your situation--the "external factors", as you say. But the gambling and whatever the reference to drug use was about indicate that there's more going on than just a bad relationship and unsupportive friends. Just because you struck out with one guy doesn't mean that counseling with the right professional wouldn't be helpful.

Do you think the gambling and drug use might be a way of dealing with stress? Meditation can help with that, and mindfulness. And eliminating the sources of stress, which you have done, to some extent.

AMH

I have to agree with the other posters, and we have a history of mental health issues in my family (me, my kids, my sister). medication has been very appropriate in our cases however it may not be in yours. Ithink your instinct is right, this may be too quick and without a good evaluation. When my family got medication it was after working with a counselor and showing a long term issue that was not helped with counseling alone.

You are the consumer even if you are depressed or have other issues so keep asking for what feels like a quality diagnoses and help.

Tosh

@ Ravkes,

I never had a gambling addiction, but I am a recovered alcoholic, and I believe the roots of the problem to be the same.

The problem is; in my understanding (feel free to disagree) is that our basic nature is restless, irritable and discontented; you could translate this as being anxious. This is the human condition.

And some of us find harmful ways to distract us from feeling anxious. For me, because of my psychological nature, alcohol solved my problem; it did something for me that it doesn't seem to do for other people. And for other people gambling, sex, drugs, X-box - you name it - that's what they use.

When we find something we like, such as alcohol or gambling, we repeatedly use it and it ingrains into us some pretty destructive habit patterns and to break from the cyclic nature of these habits can feel near on impossible. I used to work with a guy who stole a lot of money from the company (which was the British army) and ended up with a two year prison sentence; all the money was spent on gambling.

My answer to my alcoholism was the 12 Steps. There is a gamblers anonymous you may wish to look at; and don't let the 'God word' put you off; you'll find plenty of atheists/agnostics who do the 12 Steps; they just ignore the 'God portions'.

Serious; don't dismiss it out of hand, 'cos it looks weird and counter intuitive.

genkaku

@ravkes -- The world of psychology is being squeezed into a pill-popping corner: If the practitioners want to make a living (and sometimes exotic) wage, their therapies have been curtailed by the insurance industry: Do the the quick fix therapies and pass out pills ... rein in the much more patient (and thereby expensive) talk therapy.

Try another therapist. I've known therapists who were utter nitwits and therapists who were well-grounded not just in therapeutic schooling but also in the endless vagaries of human tumult. If you felt inclined to go in the first place, that may be reason enough to give it a second chance.

Dakini

If you felt inclined to go in the first place, that may be reason enough to give it a second chance.

This is very sensible. And yes, there are psychiatrists out there who are utter nitwits, which seems strange, because it's a very demanding program they go through to get their degree. You'd think they'd have to really have some brain power in order to make it through all that. I suspect that to some extent, they're being taught the wrong things. Psychologists have more freedom, I think, to study alternative methods.

I usually advise college students to take advantage of the free counseling available to them, because once they're out of college, counseling will cost them an arm and a leg. Hopefully you'll be able to find someone good.

zombiegirl

i'm sorry about your experience ravkes! but of course, just because this guy sucked doesn't mean that they all do...

i had a long conversation with an off duty police officer the other day. he said that these days his work days are so crazy because almost everyone is "off their meds" now. he pointed out that they have seen such high rates of psychosis since the fall in the economy now that so many can no longer afford their medications and some psychiatrists are so quick to prescribe.

compassionate_warrior

@Zombiegirl Very sad news. I heard a lecture long ago by a mental health care professional who discussed the downside to Reagan's "de-institutionalization" of the mentally ill. Closing hospitals for the severely mentally ill across the country was sold as a cost-saving measure. The theory was that the mentally ill would be "mainstreamed", and could live more normal lives, using community clinics for their needs. It was an ill-conceived plan, the speaker said, because no funds were made available for the patients to pay for meds and clinic time. I've seen news reports that show that many of the severely mentally ill have wound up in prisons, because there's nowhere else to house them. They don't fare well in prison, needless to say, nor do the prisoners around them. De-institutionalization also created instant homelessness, as I recall, at a time when homelessness was very rare. Suddenly it became commonplace nationwide.

I don't know much more about this issue than I've posted here. Surely these patients were given Social Security Disability and other benefits to pay for rent, food and, I'd think, medications. But their mental health needs were not budgeted for, according to everything I've heard. What a cruel world we're creating!

zombiegirl

@compassionate_warrior sad, but interesting to read about. i had heard about the closing of government funded institutions in the 80's, but i never connected this with reagan. makes a lot of sense now. it's also interesting for me to consider a time when there wasn't a widespread homeless population. even when i lived in a more conservative/smaller city than detroit, i still had quite a bit of interaction with the homeless when i volunteered for a local soup kitchen. it was explained to me at that time to pretty much assume that most of them are mentally ill and to act accordingly. very sad indeed.

the police officer i was talking to was mostly talking about non-homeless people that recently lost their jobs though. most people receive their health insurance through their employers and we all know the state of universal health insurance in america. apparently, cutting any sort of medication cold turkey can cause some problems.

compassionate_warrior

Yes, I've heard that it's dangerous to quit some meds suddenly, the "popular" anti-depressants, for example. I never thought about people losing health benefits due to losing their jobs, then being without their meds. This society is becoming downright Dickensian!

Yes, there actually was a time when homelessness was rare. There was a time when the US was a prosperous society, although there always were people who fell through the cracks in the safety net. It's so much more widespread now. There was a time when everyone paid their fair share in taxes. This seemingly mythical time wasn't that long ago.

Jeffrey

The institutions weren't a walk in the park either.. It's rough life. I know someone who they were going to lobotomize when she was little. They didn't and now she has a life that she is managing. A lobotomy is when they insert a surgical instrument into your brain and basicly scoop out a big part. Nice.

Dakini

That's right. But they don't do lobotomies anymore, do they? There used to be a lot of crazy ideas about what was therapeutic. And I bet those institutions attracted some of the least-qualified professionals in the field. People who couldn't make it in any other setting. But if de-institutionalization were adequately funded, it would probably be more expensive than maintaining the institutions. I don't know what the right solution would be.

ravkes

Thank you all for the help. I have been doing well without taking the medication. @compassionate_warrior - I was concerned of maybe being addicted to it since it does artificially change your serotonin levels, so thanks for that input. I do believe my problems to be prolonged irrational psychological issues that I have cultivated, instead of a biological issue since thankfully none of the drugs I took affected me in that way -- more perspective changes. @Tosh - I think I did gamble to avoid schoolwork but still maintain a sense of confidence and financial security if I won.

I also set up an appt. with a school counselor. I think talk therapy would work better for me. I was scared about feeling sad constantly but I think that was a side effect of not gambling - possibly a withdrawal symptom, since I had never in my life felt "depressed" for a while before .. I think it was a brief episode due to external factors and incorrect perspectives of life.

I do not regret going to see the psychiatrist though, definitely proved what I had thought about the practice initially @genkaku - definitely drug happy and money hungry people, no wonder the pharmaceutical industry is the most profitable industry in the world.

Thank you all again for the quick replies. You're a very caring group.

AMH

sounds like a good choice, counselors are also often good at telling when talk is not enough. i worked with mine for a year before we talked about a re-evaluation for medication since we saw the same stuck patterns. With or without medication i think that our practices are very beneficial. I credit meditation for helping me get very very far until some extreme stresses came along.

On a side note, we had to change my sons meds when we changed insurance after dad got laid off. I have kaiser now for the kids and they don't carry all medications. We switched him and I don't think that was his problem today but to stay on the old med was over $100 a month

Dakini

It sounds like you found a good one, Heerdt. My observation is that a lot of counselors don't practice ethically, in that if the patient decides it's time to move on, or the type of therapy the therapist practices isn't working, the therapist gets manipulative, and will say anything to get the patient to stay.

ravkes: Avoid those who are MSW's, Master in Social Work. Just take my word for it. They are only trained to do superficial work, but they don't tell you that.

Jeffrey

Dakini, one of the main problems for homeless (I imagine) is lack of medication. The same expense whether in or out of an instution occurs, what with the cost of medicine. So I think at the least a homeless person should be able to receive medicine. Anyhow that would be on my 'wishlist' for the world.

Dakini

Jeffrey, you must've misunderstood me. I agree with you completely. I was saying they should've studied the matter better, and fully funded de-institutionalization. Or, maybe if they'd studied it, they'd've discovered it was more cost effective to maintain the institutions. It's a very complex issue, and I don't know what the ideal solution would be from a practical and humanitarian standpoint.