Test 'breaks light speed again'

SattvaPaul

The team behind the finding in September that neutrinos may travel faster than light has carried out an improved version of their experiment - and found the same result.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15791236

Dakini

I'm looking forward to reading about how these results (and probably more, in the future, like these) will end up revising physics theories and our view of reality. The more new science discoveries are made, the closer we get, I think, to explaining paranormal phenomena.

Tosh

Has anyone any ideas of any profound implications if it is proven that neutrinos travel faster than light?

Mountains

I have, but it made my brain hurt, so I stopped thinking about it.

Mountains

...probably more, in the future, like these

But they may have already happened! :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

compassionate_warrior

Has anyone any ideas of any profound implications if it is proven that neutrinos travel faster than light?

Click onto the links below the article. There are other articles that discuss this to some extent. It apparently has implications for time travel, or how we understand time. But one of the science videos someone posted here said that on the quantum level, they're already aware that past, present and future are simultaneous. Maybe this experiment helps solidify that theory, I don't know.

SattvaPaul

The speed of light as we know it is presumed to be constant and it's one of the building blocks of both quantum and relativity theories, as I understand it. So the experiment literally shakes the foundations of both.

Dakini

So the experiment literally shakes the foundations of both.

I'd like to see more info on what that means, specifically. How does it turn our understanding of reality upside down? In what ways?

...probably more, in the future, like these

But they may have already happened! :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean that the new findings imply that past, present, and future can get out of order, as we are used to perceiving it? I think these experiments will be repeated by others (the article said caution should be exercised before declaring a revolution in science, because of the serious implications), and then...we'll see.

SattvaPaul

I'd like to see more info on what that means, specifically. How does it turn our understanding of reality upside down? In what ways?

Actually it seems that my statement was a bit far-fetched. According to this article "It’s not the end of physics as we know it.". But apparently, according to other sources , this has some implications for cause-and-effect and the possibility of time travel.

federica

Actually, this may all have been a huge mistake.... Einstein might have got it right after all....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/large-hadron-collider/9102355/Large-Hadron-Collider-at-CERN-Einstein-was-right-all-along.html

Zero

That was good timing!

Speed of light as a constant is highly necessary for current physics – if it is possible to travel faster then we have to rework the equations – it could show that particles travel in different dimensions each moving relative to each other…

I heard that this has been taken up by the collider that CERN replaced – they’re going to be disappointed if it turns out to be an error – there was a whole article on how it’s a new lease of life for the old collider!

There is also a project where they are linking up various observatories into one massive virtual observatory – they’re trying to view the black hole in our solar system – this could shed light on relativity and singularity – not sure how as the hard physics and maths went rapidly over my head.

lamaramadingdong

The bartender says, "We don't serve Neutrinos here". A Neutrino walks into a bar.

federica

Cinorjer

A loose cable. I work as a cable engineer, and the first rule we learn is that 90% of all problems can be traced to a bad connection.

ThailandTom

So no major breakthrough that will throw a spanner into the works of modern science, shame. That would have been fun. Maybe throw a spanner at the cern kru, tighten a few nuts.

Zero

So no major breakthrough that will throw a spanner into the works of modern science, shame.

Oh there's lots of breakthroughs in maths alone that throw multiple spanners attached to combineharvesters in the works - the general rule however is that unless it makes sense and it is approved by peers its not in the textbooks... when Einstein presented his theory of relativity in the Newton Room, everyone walked out!

I know a chap who is into his maths - thats all he does - I had him just where I wanted him on super-string and M-Theory - I'll never understand the maths so I was just trying to get him to at least verify that it makes sense to him... he showed me some very interesting propositions where established maths quandaries suddenly explain some quantum rule or other - the issue science has is then verifying the truths with experiments...

On the theory side, there are so many anomalies that are mathematical fact but we cant make sense of them in the grand scheme of things - different versions of logic - ways to manipulate constants - using unknowns to find an answer - his point was that we have all the answers in maths already - its just working out where they are go!

Modern science is more spanner than gears! Still I'll be disappointed if it turns out to be a loose cable...

Cinorjer

Whenever I start feeling down, I go to the nasa picture of the day website. As a boy, I didn't even imagine such wonders in the universe.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html

person

Whenever I start feeling down, I go to the nasa picture of the day website. As a boy, I didn't even imagine such wonders in the universe.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html

Thanks for the link, I think I'll use those images to make a desktop background theme. :thumbsup:

possibilities

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap120121.html Awesome pin-hole camera photo! thanks for the link!

SpinyNorman2

Has anyone any ideas of any profound implications if it is proven that neutrinos travel faster than light?

I bet it won't make the trains run on time

compassionate_warrior

I bet it won't make the trains run on time

The experiment took place in Switzerland. Their trains already run on time.

person

Has anyone any ideas of any profound implications if it is proven that neutrinos travel faster than light?

I bet it won't make the trains run on time

You'd think, in theory, that it would make the trains run ahead of time.

Dakini

I thought it might make the trains run backwards, all things being relative, and all...

federica

What train.....?

ImmersedOne

Our understanding of time, as well as reality itself, is based on the way we see things. The way we see things is created by light-waves. This would appear to indicate that light is inextricably interwoven with time. Time functions through light-waves travelling at the speed of light, producing our perceptions of time, which are relative. If these "neutrinos" can travel faster than the speed of light, that would indicate that the very fabric of our perception of space-time can be "outran." If this is the case, then time itself can be beat.

federica

But apparently they can't......

ThailandTom

yes, fail. I guess it is back to looking for wormholes or trying to make one

ImmersedOne

I may have misunderstood, but didn't that article suggest that they suspected that it MAY have been the case that the experiment was illegimate?

You must understand something. There is a very intense force in this world to keep people in their old ways of thinking, in many different areas. In the area of Science, it is understandable that "they" would want to do anything in their power to prevent "dangerous" new ideas, such as breaking the speed of light. There is a presence that exists to make it difficult for the New to flower. This can be found in Politics, Religion, Science, and practically all areas of thought and behavior. Something like this is the last thing that "presence" wants, in the area of Physics.

ThailandTom

This is true, going back through time you can see this with the idea of the world not being flat, that we were at the centre of the universe, that there were even other planets out there. These were all dimissed by the general public to be utter rubbish, that is until they were proven. But in this case maybe it actually was faulty wiring ... Maybe Einsteins math is good?

ImmersedOne

This is true, going back through time you can see this with the idea of the world not being flat, that we were at the centre of the universe, that there were even other planets out there. These were all dimissed by the general public to be utter rubbish, that is until they were proven. But in this case maybe it actually was faulty wiring ... Maybe Einsteins math is good?

I am always learning, but the way I am currently understanding things, Einstein was of course a very brilliant man, who made some discoveries which will change Human thought forever. However, it seems even he wasn't able to fully accept the implications of some of his own discoveries. I believe there may be certain assumptions leaking into a small part of Einstein's findings, as per the principle of Quantum Physics that the object of consciousness is formulated in relation to the Subject, or outlook/blueprint of the observed object. This naturally led to certain, i don't want to say mistakes, but rather self-imposed limitations. This is perhaps all better hammered out through logical thinking, as opposed to "math" in the strict sense. Mathematical thinking, perhaps, but I believe many "Science-types" get too caught up in the technical-math side of things, and miss out on the logic and philosophy that naturally follows.

ihepf

I may have misunderstood, but didn't that article suggest that they suspected that it MAY have been the case that the experiment was illegimate?

You must understand something. There is a very intense force in this world to keep people in their old ways of thinking, in many different areas. In the area of Science, it is understandable that "they" would want to do anything in their power to prevent "dangerous" new ideas, such as breaking the speed of light. There is a presence that exists to make it difficult for the New to flower. This can be found in Politics, Religion, Science, and practically all areas of thought and behavior. Something like this is the last thing that "presence" wants, in the area of Physics.

The "presence" could be a loose cable: http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2012/02/breaking-news-error-undoes-faster.html

Relativity theory and quantum theory were new ideas too not so long time ago. They were not prevented by "them". There were people who opposed theses ideas but in the end in science the experiment says whats right not beliefs. Thats why i like science .

federica

http://xkcd.com/401/

Laughed like a drain.....