Poking Abraham with a stick.

justshea

I live in an area of the world where most people are fanatic Christians. Being fanatics, they are always primed to denounce any other form of spirituality as a product of the devil and that non-Christians are bound for eternal punishment. To bolster their argument they cite the book of John, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." They also tend to present some elaborate arguments revolving around the concept of free will. Further, let us not forget our Muslim brothers and sisters possess the same beliefs as evidenced more recently by terrible human atrocities.

My question is this: is it justifiable for us Buddhists to challenge this belief? One side of my heart feels this is merely a narcissistic ego at work, trying to grasp the most difficult question of humanity. Surely they are suffering under this burden. My other side feels that since I have no magic handle on the universe either, why should I steal their sunshine? But then, I read the works of Sam Harris and Howard Zinn and think of the enormous human suffering caused by this belief alone, and I wonder, am I doing enough in furtherance of my Bodhisattva vow?

taiyaki

your job isn't to change anyone else. your job is to change yourself and work on your own practice.
everyone else is just trying their best, though it may seem "buddhism" may know better. and you're probably right.
the most compassionate thing you can do is to work on yourself and shine peace, joy and love at them.

ThailandTom

Taiyaki has it pretty much down to a T. People all have their own ideologies and their paths, some are extreme with their beliefs and that is evident in all religions. When you said that our muslim brothers share the same belief I hope that you do not mean that they all or even the majority of them commit terrible acts, or think of commiting terrible acts? I have a muslim friend and she is one of the nicest and funniest person I know of. She is also a strict muslim.

The christians, well the extreme christians anyway, that is old news. They have been filled with hatred for homsexuals/lesbians for many years, thinking that everyone else is wrong and will burn in eternal pain when we die. Let them think wha they want and do what they want. The only person who can create a change within them is them. If you try and direct your beliefs there way, even if your intentions are of compassion, you will be returned with a negative response most likely. They will not listen, and that is there choice. Live and let live.

DaltheJigsaw

your job isn't to change anyone else. your job is to change yourself and work on your own practice.
everyone else is just trying their best, though it may seem "buddhism" may know better. and you're probably right.
the most compassionate thing you can do is to work on yourself and shine peace, joy and love at them.

Exactly!

Simonthepilgrim

@justshea,

If your problem is to find compassion in your heart for fanatical exclusivists, you may want to consider that there is a different way to read John 4:23. I have expounded this before and found that many anti-Christians hate the idea but I maintain that a close reading of John suggests a completely inclusivist approach.

B5C

I live in an area of the world where most people are fanatic Christians. Being fanatics, they are always primed to denounce any other form of spirituality as a product of the devil and that non-Christians are bound for eternal punishment. To bolster their argument they cite the book of John, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." They also tend to present some elaborate arguments revolving around the concept of free will. Further, let us not forget our Muslim brothers and sisters possess the same beliefs as evidenced more recently by terrible human atrocities.

My question is this: is it justifiable for us Buddhists to challenge this belief? One side of my heart feels this is merely a narcissistic ego at work, trying to grasp the most difficult question of humanity. Surely they are suffering under this burden. My other side feels that since I have no magic handle on the universe either, why should I steal their sunshine? But then, I read the works of Sam Harris and Howard Zinn and think of the enormous human suffering caused by this belief alone, and I wonder, am I doing enough in furtherance of my Bodhisattva vow?

I am a Buddhist and I criticize the beliefs of my Christian family a friends. If they post or talk about their beliefs openly in front of me. You can debate and criticize the other religion as long your reasons are just, logical, and don't fall into fallacy.

Also I am open about my criticism because I don't want to feel like I am second class citizen where I live because I don't believe in any deities.

Confronting the problems of Christianity and not just accepting them because of "faith" is what I am today.

Jeffrey

You have to assess if someone is receptive to dharma teachings. Otherwise you might as well debate with your cat the problem of hunting mice.

SattvaPaul

I haven't read Harris or Zinn but my feeling is that they are quite militant atheists. A question has to be asked whether they contribute to interfaith dialogue or fan the flames? Those fanatic Christians aren't tying you up and threatening to behead you if you don't accept their religion, are they? If so, I would just let them be, and continue to try and work on my own anger.

zenff

I think you have a dilemma.

One solution is that you smile and nod and hide what you’re really thinking.
That works; but only up to a point. There’s going to be a limit to what you will smile and nod about.

The other solution is that you stand your ground. You have every right to think what you are thinking and every right to say it.
When implicitly or explicitly you are asked, and you’re honest; there you go.

The first solution will avoid conflict with the people around you; but you get to experience some conflict within your own mind.
The second solution will solve your internal conflict, but you get in endless and fruitless discussions all the time.

I don’t have the answer. I just think it’s a dilemma.

aMatt

There’s going to be a limit to what you will smile and nod about.

If this is true, its time for more practice. Equanimity is possible regardless of external phenomena! Perhaps it would be even more appropriate to say that equanimity is possible when there is a skillful regard of external phenomena. Its only when we cling to our own beliefs that those of others is challenging... otherwise we can just see that they have their beliefs.

zenff

No he’s not a Buddha who keeps smiling and nodding all the time. He’s a good actor.
There’s more Buddhism in being open and honest; in being truly human.

aMatt

We obviously disagree, and I am still smiling and nodding. I understand where you're coming from, and there is no acting.

justshea

My default position is to smile and nod and then gracefully excuse myself, sometimes with my back to the door. I am feeling guilty about not fighting enough...not at all for Buddhism, just simple human compassion. Fighting for the things that make us all the same, instead of different.

zenff

Don't be too hard on yourself.