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Witch-slapped!
Well, I returned to a pagan forum I had previously visited and always liked. After saying I was enjoying my studies of Taoism and now Buddhism, the "good-natured pagan folk" are treating me like a leper. They remember me, but have a problem with the fact I left the ranks to pursue other religions.
I admit I had never really considered myself a pagan, or a witch or wiccan or anything like that, because I find labels restricting. (Besides, at least here in America anyway, paganism is very much equated with Wicca.) But I always loved the quote from Anne of Green Gables that went something like "I'd just go into a field, look up, and feel a prayer." That summed up an aspect of my spirituality perfectly.
Studying and gaining insight can engender good things in a person's spirituality and/or religion.
On one forum, I saw a member get verbally bludgeoned for inquiring about "found goddesses", basically meaning dieties humans created for modern problems. The question was posed respectfully, but the member was still treated with that putrid mix of condescension and anger that I find some pagans have become quite good at emitting. So I privately emailed the board's moderator to ask her what right did she and her cronies have to speak to people in such a vile fashion. That's how I learned she was a self-initiate after reading a book -- Silver Ravenwolf's "To Ride a Silver Broomstick" (This info was on her now defunct website.)
If you ask me, paganism has become quite elitist. Years ago you would meet Gardnerians and Ceremonials who were well trained, confident, and OK, a little arrogant. But they were never needlessly cruel like these "Wiccan-lites" I have found as of late.
I admit it. I am feeling somewhat hurt.
Atzigara
I admit I had never really considered myself a pagan, or a witch or wiccan or anything like that, because I find labels restricting. (Besides, at least here in America anyway, paganism is very much equated with Wicca.) But I always loved the quote from Anne of Green Gables that went something like "I'd just go into a field, look up, and feel a prayer." That summed up an aspect of my spirituality perfectly.
Studying and gaining insight can engender good things in a person's spirituality and/or religion.
On one forum, I saw a member get verbally bludgeoned for inquiring about "found goddesses", basically meaning dieties humans created for modern problems. The question was posed respectfully, but the member was still treated with that putrid mix of condescension and anger that I find some pagans have become quite good at emitting. So I privately emailed the board's moderator to ask her what right did she and her cronies have to speak to people in such a vile fashion. That's how I learned she was a self-initiate after reading a book -- Silver Ravenwolf's "To Ride a Silver Broomstick" (This info was on her now defunct website.)
If you ask me, paganism has become quite elitist. Years ago you would meet Gardnerians and Ceremonials who were well trained, confident, and OK, a little arrogant. But they were never needlessly cruel like these "Wiccan-lites" I have found as of late.
I admit it. I am feeling somewhat hurt.
Atzigara
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Comments
Recently another member of this board came onto a pagan website that I had recommended to her. When she started asking intelligent questions, she was branded a troll and banned. This is, of course, that Mme Silverwolf's devotees haven't got the foggiest idea why they are doing anything, or have made it up as they went along because it felt nice and "witchy".
All this rubbish is one of the reasons that I have cut myself off from paganism after years of being highly involved.
Please accept my bright blessings as an antidote to the other witches' slapping!
I guess what bothers me about this is that I can remember years ago when modern paganism seemed like a grand and beautiful experiment. We were misfits in terms of religion and decided to try something that we believed could speak to a part of our souls we thought had been neglected.
So I find the elitism painful.
I consider myself an agnostic, and can remember when agnostics seemed to be somewhat embraced by the older pagan members. But this newer generation, in my humble opinion, uses wicca and paganism and witchcraft as a way to feel superior. And, to add something else, this is the first time alot of them have ever felt powerful or even useful in their world.
But I am only speaking of the pagans I have met. Alot of them anyway.
There's something to be said for the "wise woman" image. I think so many have forgotten about her. Just an everyday woman who may not have been a high priestess, but had some real wisdom to offer.
An awful lot of people are drawn to paganism precisely because they feel it will empower them and this isn't helped by all the "magickal" nonsense that is now pushed in the media. So the system is breaking down and the fluffies are in the ascendency. It's a shame but religions all grow, develop, change .... it will either get over it or the whole thing will degenerate to a disparate bunch of wannabees fighting over whose made-up trivia is more "witchy" than the others.
We'll see, in the meantime, some of us just plod away, quietly doing their thing.
I agree with a lot of what has been posted here. There are some Pagans here in Anderson, Indiana that are calling themselves Pagans because they "wanna be cool." That's not the idea at all! I am a Correllian Tradition Wiccan because I was drawn to the Tradition. It just seemed to resonate with me and not because I want to be "powerful" and "magickal" or some other such thing. We Correllians believe in the more philosophical aspects of Wicca and we also believe that all the different practices of Paganism are equally valid. In other words, I don't think that I am any better than, say, a person who practices Gardnerian Wicca nor do I think that they are better than me. We believe all paths to the God and/or Goddess are just as valid and therefore deserving of respect.
Adiana:rockon: :type: :mullet:
Great posts. I hope there are more witches around like you both. I have such warm feelings toward Wicca and I really don't want it spoiled. But then again, I doubt it really can be. Not in it's essence, which, I think, has little to do with joining clubs and cliques and more to do with wisdom and causing no harm. I really admire how you both handle this issue. It's comforting.
Thanks.
Brigid
Since there are no other Correllians here in Anderson, Indiana where I live, I try to meet up with two Correllians that I know that live in Indianapolis. We try to get together to study and do rituals whenever we can. We also try to go to one of the Correllian temples in Illinois (there are two of them: one in Hoopeston, Illinois and the the other in Danville, Illinois) at least twice a year if possible. It is not always possible because of the high gas prices, though. Illinois has the closest temples to us here in Indiana, so that's where we go! Also, Correllians believe that a person can have more than one spiritual path if that is what they choose to do. There are no regulations saying that anyone has to only practice Correllian Wicca to the exclusion of any other practice. The only requirement is that when you are in a Correllian temple, you observe the Correllian Tradition Wiccan practices. Other than that, what you do if and when you are practicing your other spiritual path is your business. All the Correllians I know also know that I practice Nichiren Buddhism as well and I have never heard anything negative about it from any of my fellow Correllians. That's another reason I was drawn to the tradition. Correllians respect all spiritual paths, religions, and/or belief systems. Correllians think that it is very arrogant to feel that Correllianism is the "only true way or path" to anything. I agree with this as well.
Adiana:type:
I have always take the Anne of Green Gables approach, well, until I became atheist - but I still like going outside and feeling nature in that totally awesome way. I definitely believe in exploring different ideas and that's why I like how open most Buddhists are to other religions and philosophies. While I haven't experienced much direct criticism, I have seen what you have experienced. At least you now know the true character of those people. How sad, though. Sometimes I wonder if Silver Ravenwolf has done more harm than good for Wicca. Of course, the books have definitely made Wicca and paganism in general more popular and well-known, though still misunderstood.
There's a saying that you must be careful, or you will become that which you despise. I think that may be happening in the Wiccan community. In their efforts to free themselves from dogma (eclectics especially espoused freedom in practice), they seem to be transforming into a society, almost a caste, that holds itself above others. Friends of mine who are pagan, but not Wiccan, say even they have felt this shift.
Sorry for the rant, or if I have offended any Wiccans who have read this, but it's what I am experiencing.
Anytime you are ridiculed or excluded from one group for appreciating, acknowledging, or accepting of another group.... it's time to leave that group.
There is enough anger and hatred in this world without coming up with new ways for creating more.
-bf
I don't think it's because they're necessarily afraid of contemplating such things, but it's just strange. It's common for people to just presume there is a soul. Questioning it is strange in the same way that questioning gravity is strange. (Bad example, I know.) Still, some do actually take questioning to be an attack on their beliefs. Depending on how questions are worded, it may be easy to see why they would think this.
I have encountered many pagans who have no problem contemplating difficult questions if they're worded in a polite and honest way. Likewise, if one is explaining Buddhist philosophies and beliefs to them, it's best if it's worded in such a way to convey that this is what we believe to be true rather than it being a universally superior truth to theirs.
Change "pagan" and "Buddhist" to any other categories of belief and you have a formula for peace.