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NewSpeak and Political Correctness
Xrayman
Veteran
Knit witch brought up a good point earlier today on another post.
She quoted the (old) Australian National Anthem.
"Australia's sons let us rejoice,for we are young and free,
We've golden soil and wealth for toil, our home is girt by sea.....etc."
Anyway I wish to draw your attention to the words "Australia's sons", the wording has now recently and almost imperceptably changed to "Australian's all".
Are we all going slightly overboard with newspeak and PC?
:tongue2:
She quoted the (old) Australian National Anthem.
"Australia's sons let us rejoice,for we are young and free,
We've golden soil and wealth for toil, our home is girt by sea.....etc."
Anyway I wish to draw your attention to the words "Australia's sons", the wording has now recently and almost imperceptably changed to "Australian's all".
Are we all going slightly overboard with newspeak and PC?
:tongue2:
0
Comments
So I won't repeat what he said.
Brigid
Ditto:bowdown:
I am always horrified by the way in which the expression is used today, which is far removed from the way we used it in the days when I was directly involved with the political struggle for liberation.
We used to discuss, sitting in coffee bars like the Troubadour in Earl's Court or many a smoky pub upper room, whether such-and-such an action/attitude was "poltically correct". We were asking Does the action/attitude lead towards our political goal? If it did, it was correct, if not then it was deemed incorrect.
This remains the test that I apply to language, attitude, action and view.
As for ba ba black sheep if I recall that was a story that had little truth in it. I guess we should have all questioned it at the time as the Sun was at it's most rabid.
Many things that were passed off as politically correct in the 80's are righfully considered common practice.
Maybe people might wish to turn the clock back and allow phrase's such a "Nigger's in the wood pile" in their work place". I for one don't.
There is still much work to do to over come ignorance, especially surrounding ageism. We must stop this cult of youth as much wisdom is going to be simply passed by.
HH
I guess if you gotta do it, you gotta do it. Just don't get upset when everyone else doesn't go to the same extreme.
I have to say, I'm also tired of African American - Asian American - all these different types of Americans.
I'm not European American or Scottish/Irish/English American - nor would I require someone to waste that much oxygen describing me. I'm just me. White if you have to differentiate.
Odd. Jerk. A__hole. These are are good and time-tested ways of describing me.
-bf
It is now "Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep" - I kid you not !!
They also changed "Humpty Dumpty" so that he doesn't break when he falls off the wall. It was seen as too upsetting for the children. :banghead:
-bf
As long as Joe Public thinks that Big Brother is that daft reality TV show with the Diary Room, the government will continue to get away with it!
I say this because in the deep, dark South - we have people that haven't even mastered English - much less this "NewSpeak".
Nowaddimean, Vern?
-bf
Whul I'll be a dawg-gawn! Ah s'pose A'hll jest hafter mosey on down South.
Peace, y'all!
Whud that be that thar big red ol' General Lee? Yee Haa!:ot:
Frizzer who are "they". I really get the impression that some of you are looking extremely white and middle class.
The humpy dumpy thing was just another right wing myth and I am totally amazed you chose to raise it.
Those attack's by the Murdoch empire in the 80's were aimed at progressive Labour run local authorities. Those Council's were punished by the media for introducing equal oportunities. Those slur stories involved issues like a positive stance again hate crime's whether they were race related or work place bullying. It was a dark time politically for this country.
Remember it was a time when Thatcher told us that there was no such thing a society.
Without those people in council authorities who were brave enough to stand their ground when the Tories had control of Westminster, there would not be such strong policies on disability access, gay civic wedding etc. "They" are the people we have to thank that have pushed to increase political representation by women locally and nationally. I could go on.
Go on, open your eyes, then get your hands dirty.
HH
Seems to me that you are also looking for enlightenment, so will you achieve that by calling others ignorant??
It really is up to you.
HH
I would respectively suggest you didn't go on.
-bf
Mother O'Riley.... I can see the Nazi Stormtrooper's marching down your road as we right speak.
How would you describe these crimes. If they are not crimes of hate what are they. I would like your Buddhist angle on them. Compassion eh.
Physical or verbal crime against gay, muslim, black or hispanic citizens are crimes of hate.
May I suggest to speak to the victim of these crimes and let them tell you how they felt about the crime against them. Not just after, not even a year after but give it maybe three years and Ipromise they will re-live the pain and fear they felt as if it were yesterday.
Orwell would turn in his grave to hear his book being attributed to that post.
HH
I would go even further than just associating it with gay, Muslim, Black or Hispanic. The US has a huge amount of hate and closemindedness. We have very recent crimes of a gay being slain in Wyoming - of a black man being drug behind a vehicle until he died in Texas.
I guess I just have a hard time with the anger in someone who tells others that "you're ignorant" or "white, middle-class" or "if you're not part of my definition - you're part of the problem".
With repsect and confusion - I feel that you show these same traits in some of your posts here. Is ridicule, hostility or demeaning/condescending statements to those here - that may not be along the path, as you, to defining a global Utopia - truly the best way to enlighten?
How is ridicule, hostility, demeaning or condescending comments that far off from hateful remarks and racial/gender/sexual preference slurs?
If you can give me a reply without indicating that I'm an asshole or "well, of course you feel that way because you're an idiot middle-class yuppie" - I'd really love to hear it. I'm sure others would love to hear it too.
Respectfully,
-bf
I have a Civil right to speak out against racist remarks or indeed issue's that surround crimes of hate no matter how crass or subtle. It's called free speech and with that freedom comes a great responsiblity.
At least I am sure I have that right still in the UK.
Respectfully, HH
HH,
I don't know how wishing that you wouldn't use angry adjectives to describe members here was translated into a question of your Civil Right to Free Speech.
I humbly submit that I wasn't criticizing your civil right to free speech and I agree with your stance against crimes of hate and racist remarks.
I don't know what to say to you - so I'll refrain.
-bf
Buddhafoot,
As you well known my friend I have never called you or indeed anyone an arse hole at least on this site. I don't use the word yuppie as it's very 80's and idiot is not my style.
However I am interested in how you cleverly linked those words with a word I DID use . In this case "middle class". Mmm...
As for my hostility, well it is driven by a fear that it is exceptable NOT to challenge those who think it's cool to undermined hard fought struggles that have enabled minorities to have a place in society. A place where they feel empowered to speak up.
Respectfully,
HH
I am not sure what you mean..?
HH
Well done, my friend.
-bf
I can find no clear reference to this origin for the rhyme and the Opies date it back to the law regulating the distribution of wool dating from 1245!
The truth is that offence is experienced by the offended and it is up to the offended to take such action as they deem necessary and is within the law. As a while male, I cannot say that I was personally offended by the word "blackmail" until a black friend pointed out how the word "black" is assumed to denote wrongdoing in the composite.
Returning to what I said earlier: my preferred strategy is to think, act and speak respectfully. I do so as part of a much wider objective and as the most skillful way to move towards it. Living my life as far as I can for the benefit of others means that I should test thoughts, actions and speech against that objective. Should the language being used lead away from or obstruct that way forward, I deem it 'incorrect' for me. And I ask that it should not be used around me or around those for whom I am responsible (children, for example).
I believe that it is quite possible to use imperfect speech very easily. We are brought up with a language which maps our deeper attitudes towards ourselves, each other and the world at large. Each time I have had to examine my own usage, it has led me to further areas of unexamined prejudice.
The question of what is OK to use with children is a tricky one. I imagine that very few vegetarians enjoy hearing their children recite Jack Sprat could eat no fat.... or sing Boiled beef and carrots. Would we want them to watch 'minstrel' shows? Would women or ethnic groups or sexual minorities have achieved any of the advances of the past 40 years had they not challenged the stereotypes that oppress and keep people under? And so many of those streotypes are enshrined in language and images such as wicked gollywogs - particularly at a time when a black person was a rarity in England and they were called "(golly)wogs"?
There we have it. The voice of reason
I am only sadly that is has to be spelled out on such a basic level. However your point about "Each time I have had to examine my own usage, it has led me to further areas of unexamined prejudice" is food for thought for us all.
Now excuse my ignorance but surely there must be a connection with right thought and right speech or am I still a Key stage 1.
HH
I have a white brother who is married to a black woman. I remember, long ago as a child, making a reference to a "colored person" - she then asked me "what color was he?". Being a kid it took me a couple of minutes to figure out what she was saying. Then it dawned on me.
If I also recall, back in the 70's, the movement in the US to bring "Black" to a different meaning. Being that "black" was used in so many different, unfavorable connotations (ie. black heart, black day, etc.) - thus the "Black is Beautiful" and such... mental re-engineering.
I don't know that I would go as far to say that the language we were brought up with maps deeper attitudes unless I could also say that sometimes it's just ignorance of the fact on how our words afffects others.
Good food for thought, Simon.
-bf
Great advice for all of us to follow, Simon.
Herman, I agree with a lot of things that you are saying, but was it really necessary to call us ignorant? How is that following "Right Speech" and "Right Thought"?
Peace,
Kim
I love you.
HH
I think we've beat this dead horse enough.
There will be different views among us for a very long time.
Let's just let it rest.
Please.
-bf
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot to add the link where I got the info from.
Here it is Sky News
Sorry if I appeared gullible for believing what I read in the news.
Adrian
Oh hang, on. That article was on Murdoch's Sky News - maybe you have a valid point there HH.
And in many ways I do agree with you (even if I am ignorant, white and middle class
Sometimes it does get out of hand a bit though.
For example, my mother was told that they are not allowed to use the phrase "Brainstorming" at work anymore as it could be deemed offensive to epileptics. One of her colleagues actually contacted one of the charities involved with epilepsy and asked them their thoughts on this. They replied that it was complete nonsense and that they use the term themselves so why shouldn't any one else.
I just wonder who makes up some of these alternative terms and whether they actually consult with the people that they "think" are being offended.
:cheer:
Um. I really started this thread with the (right)intention? to promote discussion not to create an air of who is right, left, or any other political member, purely to make mention that our language is being changed somewhat to make us all feel warm and fuzzy and not offended.
I was going to post a few more examples like "collateral damage" meaning civillian-deaths and "friendly fire" being blown-up by your own army. However I will drop it now.
Also with all due respect, I was not discussing the male/female equilibrium in the Advance Australia Anthem, just the insidious NewSpeak that worms its way into our language, sometimes.
I have enjoyed most of your responses-but I'm offended by the term "Crap Forum-Poster", I would appreciate if you all refer to me as Lexicologically Challenged, from now on...
No harm done.
In fact, as odd as it may seem, these kinds of posts are good for me.
I use them to review my ways of thinking, try to see others views - and bite my tongue at various opportunities.
Thanks!
-bf
Okay a few more from here in Australia,
A few years ago on TV there was a children's show called Fat Cat a play on two situations-he was a Fat cat but he was also supposed to be well-off a "Fat Cat" if you will. the show ran for nine years-then it was banned due to its slur on fat people. According to the media, it was banned because it was not educational. mmm?
I agreee with ZM about the rewriting of history etc. to sound better-I'm against that, sorry!
I have a clipped section of a song by REM below-relating to this rewriting of history...
(Berry/Buck/Mills/Stipe)
Let's put our heads together and start a new country up
Our father's father's father tried, erased the parts he didn't like
Let's try to fill it in, bank the quarry river, swim
We knee-skinned it you and me, we knee-skinned that river red
(chorus 1)
This is where we walked, this is where we swam
Take a picture here, take a souvenir
This land is the land of ours, this river runs red over it
We knee-skinned it you and me, we knee-skinned that river red
And we gathered up our friends, bank the quarry river, swim
We knee-skinned it you and me, underneath the river bed
(repeat chorus 1)
(chorus 2)
Cuyahoga
Cuyahoga, gone
Let's put our heads together, start a new country up,
Underneath the river bed we burned the river down
This is where they walked, swam, hunted, danced and sang,
Take a picture here, take a souvenir
repeat chorus 2)
Rewrite the book and rule the pages, saving face, secured in faith
Bury, burn the waste behind you
This land is the land of ours, this river runs red over it
We are not your allies, we can not defend
(repeat chorus 1)
(repeat chorus 2 2x)
regards,
and thank you all for your contributions to this subject!
Xrayman
At the risk of re-starting the argument thing off again, I feel I must reply to this attack on my post. To my mind, ANY crime of aggression against ANY human being, REGARDLESS OF RACE, COLOUR OR RELIGIOUS BELIEF, is a crime of hate. THAT's my Buddhist angle of compassion! To use that term only to refer to interracial crimes such as assault or murder only serves to further division in society, in my opinion. If the crime committed was murder, assault or GBH, why not say? To infer that I am in any way racist for highlighting what I feel to be a misuse of this term is something that I take immediate offense at, and I would respectfully ask you to be more mindful in the way you address a point put by another poster, whom you do not know, so as to avoid any further causes of offense.
That's all I have to say.
I totally understand where you're coming from and I understand why you are offended. And your perspective is more than valid. I'm glad you responded and spoke your piece. This thread, or any thread, that get's a little heated is a valuable and useful thread for too many reasons to list. Buddhafoot described one opportunity that threads like these become for him quite well. I think they also afford us the opportunity to address issues that cut a little close to the bone for some of us in a forum dictated by compassion, respect and Right Speech in general.
Herman, that's where your getting your flack from. Just the tone (and sometimes a word or two, lol), not the content, it seems to me.
But, Padawan, if I may humbly disagree a bit with the hate crime part of the issue, I sincerely don't want to add to your upset. I just wanted to say that when I was reading the parts in this thread about hate crimes I couldn't help feeling that there was a valid reason for using the term. In police work, I think, it goes to motive which is an important part of the investigatory and legal aspects of a specific crime.
If I'm not mistaken, the term Hate Crime describes any criminal act, from vandalism to bullying to murder, perpetrated against any member of a minority, simply for being a member of that minority. It describes a hate for the entire minority with the a specific victim representing that minority. It differs from other criminal acts, from vandalism to bullying to murder, in the sense that the victims of these crimes can be random or they can be targeted.
If, for example, a black couple return from dinner to find, as they are turning into their driveway in a mostly white neighborhood, spray painted graffiti on their garage door with words that are specifically and explicitly race related and derogatory, their feelings of violation and fear are much deeper than the white couple who arrives home to their mostly white neighborhood to find "The Knicks RULE!!! S.T. and J.L. 4ever!!" One is a hate crime, the other probably just senseless, stupid vandalism. The former crime, I'm sure you would agree, is the more dangerous. If the police remained blind to that distinction they would be highly criticized not just for their insensitivity, but for their incompetence in being either unwilling or unable to see the difference.
As we evolve, we are learning more and more about criminal acts and their motivation. They are all distinguished from each other in terms of severity (Murder 1 and 2, Manslaughter, Negligence Causing Death etc. in the U.S.) and motivation (crimes of passion, cold blooded murder, hate, financial gain, revenge etc.) because they have to be tried in a court of law. These distinctions help us to understand the motive of the criminal, the severity of the crime and the likelihood of it's being repeated in the future. It is, after all, a jury of one's peers, not a jury of criminalists, that is charged with the task of coming to a conclusion about whether the alleged perpetrator is guilty or not guilty. It's also essential information for the judge when it comes time to sentencing as well as the issue of bail before a trial even gets underway. And that's not even to mention the process of plea bargaining.
The exact nature of a crime is therefore, a very important thing to understand if we are to be able to reach any form of justice or protection in society.
The very last thing in the world I would ever do is call you racist. I didn't get that at all from your earlier post. I read it just as you've explained it here, as an impartial compassion for all, regardless of what group to which we may belong.
But to many people living in a hostile, dangerous world simply because they were born in a different way to the majority of people, things just aren't that simple. Racism, homophobia and other types of hate do exist, unfortunately, and I think it's important to recognize this because it needs to be addressed and remedied if we're ever going to live up to what a civilized society actually is, sustainable. And I believe the modern distinction of the hate crime is a rather large step in the right direction. It explains motive more than it further divides our societies, IMHO.
I hope I haven't made you even more angry. I respect so much what you wrote and I wouldn't want you to think otherwise, Padawan. If only your heart and understanding were more universal. sigh.
With respect,
Brigid
thank you for your post. I have no objections to your viewpoint at all- after all, from the Buddhist perspective, there is no right or wrong, only points of view! When your thoughts are posted in such a polite, mindful manner, it's much easier to see the different sides to a debate, and also much easier to maintain mutual respect during a debate. As you so rightly pointed out, it was the tone in which I was addressed that I took umbrage with- and the implications that the aforesaid tone inferred. Thank you for being able to explain your take on this situation so thoughtfully; this is definitely a subject in which feelings can run high or be triggered by the slightest thing!
I think I'm also partly to blame for flying off the handle- I'll have to put a stronger guard on that hair trigger!!:o When not here, I spend time on a forum dedicated to my favourite band, and I'm forever watching out for right-wing extremists who seem to relish attacking the posters there. Some of the Holocaust denial stuff that they try to post there would make your toes curl. It's something I feel very strongly about; my wife is east European, and lost many members of her family during that dark time. That, and all the 'asylum seeker' stuff that I hear people use, especially with the usual get-out clause of 'no, not your wife- she's alright', and I think you can see why I feel as strongly as I do. It's something I really must learn to tackle with a more even temper!
Peace.
I have known this, but it just shocks me that people are in denial about the holocaust. My thoughts go out to you and your wife. I can only imagine how awful that must have been.