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If the world was to end, what would happen to rebirth?
What would happen to my energy or conditioning created by my life (rebirth) if the world was to end now? Would that energy rebirth into life elsewhere if life existed elsewhere? Or would there be no rebirth? Would do you think? It was just some thought I had. Thanks
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Buddha was once asked what happens to a Buddha when they die. Buddha asked where does a fire go when the fuel is all consumed and it goes out? His answer was that the question does not apply.
Reincarnation is quite a mystery. I have practiced over 10 years and I still don't understand it but I think it is more important to understand conditionality and impermanence.
Because it's navel gazing and the Buddha actually taught a lot of interesting things you could be thinking about how to apply to your life rather than dissecting esoterica that effects no one.
Anyway, going back to the topic the OP posted, I believe in rebirth whereas you do not. If the world were to end, IMO many people would end up in lower formless realms, others may end up in higher formless realms, and then of course there is the possibility that you could be reborn on a distant planet. I do not see why not, but that is my notion.
So in some unimaginative distant future, our own star may explode, spreading our substance over the universe, or it may eventually fall into a black hole and we go on a stranger journey into another universe entirely. As long as there is a universe, death and rebirth will continue to happen.
World will end. Rebirth will end. All phenomenon have beginning - middle - end.
Who cares? Who knows? Who says? Who's who?
All we ever get is arguments, and criticism.
Occasionally, we might just be right - but we still get the barrage of criticism, accusations of throwing our hissy weight about, and veiled insinuations that we interfere/censor/pick on people.
As it happens - and no, it's neither sucking up, licking 4ss or even being a yes-person - I completely agree with Lincoln on this one: It's an imponderable.
Why waste your damn time discussing something which has absolutely no worthy or valuable answer - or do you suddenly all know better than the Buddha?
It would appear you do, as you seem set on ignoring his wise counsel....
"There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?
"The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]
"The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...
"Conjecture about [the origin*, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."
(*"origin etc" would also cover the ending,so I'm given to understand by a Bikkhu.)
So by all means, carry on with your pointless, aimless and frankly completely irrelevant discussion.
Moved to General Banter.
Nothing whatsoever to do with 'Members only'.
what's the point of 'caring' about something to which there is absolutely no definitive answer?
Care more about your life, now, and what you're doing with it!
We all spend so much time on 'what ifs' and wondering about our future, and we so carelessly forget that the future is made up of perpetual nows. 'Now' is what matters.
Isn't it? Isn't it what we're constantly reading elsewhere? About being in the moment?
The beginning middle and end of all phenomenon have to do with the inherent emptiness of the existence of even energy - which is afterall a mathematical, conceptual quantity dependent upon impermanent beings who agree on the concept and exist within a shared framework of time. It all ends. And, frankly, since Fede is so world weary with this pursuit - this thread may end sooner than later.....
2nd comment - You may be wrong in thinking we are the only two people who think such things. Bringing them up is a different matter.
This is something that has mystified me since I joined a year ago. :shake:
@Murasaki337 What I've learned regarding choosing a category in which to post a topic is, that if the topic is speculative in any way ("What would happen to rebirth if the world were to end?"), it goes in General Banter. Even if it's a topic relating to Buddhism, if it involves speculation, it goes in General Banter.
Yes maybe it is not something deemed positive to dwell on from a buddhist sense, but we are not practicing monks or nuns here for the majority, it is an internet buddhist based forum, where even non-buddhists come. Live and let live.
@Kathryn I wasn't thinking about 2012 or some other nonsense. I mean, it is fact that the world will die one day. Even our star and galaxy we live in.
@Jeffrey I like your post! Thank you.
@Lincoln I care, this website IS called NEW Buddhist isn't it?
@Telly03, @ThailandTom I do believe in life elsewhere in our universe, astronomy fascinates me.
@MindGate I would like to learn more about Hinduism!
@federica How could i possibly know what everything the Buddha said if I am still learning? It's like me giving you paint so you can learn to paint, but you dident know about the paint brush? You then start to paint with your hands. See how it's going? "Why waste your damn time discussing something which has absolutely no worthy or valuable answer - or do you suddenly all know better than the Buddha?
It would appear you do, as you seem set on ignoring his wise counsel...." How was I suppose to know this? How can I know better than the Buddha if I haven't even scratched the surface of his teachings?
@compassionate_warrior General Banter, got it. Thank you!
@ThailandTom Thank you! I liked reading your posts. I didn't mean to create so much friction on this thread. I am quite shocked that the admins/mods would be so negative and offend an OP's question. This is a new Buddhist site, yet i didn't expect to act so -unbuddhist in a way.
Would @Lincoln like if i greeted everyones question on this forum with "Who cares?" Is this allowed then on this forum?
A thicket of wrong views
"There is the case where an uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person... does not discern what ideas are fit for attention, or what ideas are unfit for attention. This being so, he does not attend to ideas fit for attention, and attends instead to ideas unfit for attention... This is how he attends inappropriately: 'Was I in the past? Was I not in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? Having been what, what was I in the past? Shall I be in the future? Shall I not be in the future? What shall I be in the future? How shall I be in the future? Having been what, what shall I be in the future?' Or else he is inwardly perplexed about the immediate present: 'Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where is it bound?'
"As he attends inappropriately in this way, one of six kinds of view arises in him: The view I have a self arises in him as true & established, or the view I have no self... or the view It is precisely by means of self that I perceive self... or the view It is precisely by means of self that I perceive not-self... or the view It is precisely by means of not-self that I perceive self arises in him as true & established, or else he has a view like this: This very self of mine — the knower that is sensitive here & there to the ripening of good & bad actions — is the self of mine that is constant, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change, and will endure as long as eternity. This is called a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a writhing of views, a fetter of views. Bound by a fetter of views, the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is not freed from birth, aging, & death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. He is not freed, I tell you, from suffering & stress.
"The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones... discerns what ideas are fit for attention, and what ideas are unfit for attention. This being so, he does not attend to ideas unfit for attention, and attends [instead] to ideas fit for attention... He attends appropriately, This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress. As he attends appropriately in this way, three fetters are abandoned in him: identity-view, doubt, and grasping at precepts & practices."
— MN 2
Welcome, Murasaki.
The OP is typical of the type of beginner's question that examines one or another Buddhist teaching, then tries to take it to its logical end. We've seen this kind of thing before. This is one way of testing a teaching, in this case, one aspect of the principle of rebirth. For which we are eternally grateful to our great admin and mod team. :clap:
Murasaki, what do you mean by "the world"? Do you mean if our planet were to experience a cataclysm, or do you mean the entire universe, therefore leaving no possibility of rebirth in other galaxies or dimensions? Hmm...(ponder, ponder)...all those consciousnesses would remain in what scientists are now referring to as the universal consciousness field. They would have no way to birth into beings of any sort. If the consciousness field itself continued to exist, that is.
And if it did, there might be a possibility it would at some point manage to create a new universe.
Hey, if you wanna speculate, let's go for it and have a speculate party!
Furthermore, I'm not being rude nor intend to be. I'm saying there is a lot more a new Buddhist should be focused on than weird "what if" situations like the end of the universe. I guess it beats doing a crossword puzzle but I don't think it accomplishes much more than that. I like to think Buddhism is more practical than this.
I'll bow out now so you can have your meandering pontification in peace.
The OP has been here for a year, well they have had an account here for a year. I have seen very little posts made by this person, maybe they are a backseat observer, even still one year on a buddhist forum in my opinion is still very much a beginner. Heck, I have been involved with buddhism for over 3 years and I would classify myself as a beginner.
not just yours but everyones. karma is an impersonal process of finites meeting finites meeting finites meeting finites (for infinity).
but there is no true end or beginning. for to assert such view is to assert duality and inherency.
thus it is more important to shine your awareness on your inherent assumptions. why rebirth? what is being reborn? also from what point of view should we understand rebirth?
we must truly understand emptiness/dependent origination to understand how rebirth occurs. without such correct non dual teachings we are just bashing our heads against the wall.
why is there an end? why is there a beginning? for whom is there an end and beginning? time for more sitting.
We are left to wonder about the assumptions of the OP about rebirth, karma, etc. . And then you bring in others with different assumptions. Now it is a mess. You will not find a single answer to this question. And in the end you will be none the better. You may even choose an answer which resonates with you, and you will carry that belief with you for the rest of your days. But for what purpose?
That's the big picture here. What is the significance of this? What virtue, meaning, etc. do you hope to gain from pursuit of this answer?
But at least this isn't a Christainty forum, I'm pretty sure if I asked similar questions on that sort of forum I would be put in my place ha ha.
Thank you though for everyone's replies, you have pointed me in the right direction! And I learned a new saying saying. Red herring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology