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Psychadelic use
I know Buddha says to refrain from intoxicants, because they hurt you. Can this be interpreted as total abstinence, or choosing the middle path where with something like Psilocybin mushrooms or LSD use that is proven to not be harmful is okay when I use it to meditate, think deeply, and enjoy the world around me.
I am curious about what other people think, because I am just now learning more about the Buddhist teachings, and am trying to be a more peaceful and serene person, and feel that these teachings embody what I already thought, so there for I feel like I was a Buddhist fledgling in a sense already, but just never aware.
I am curious about what other people think, because I am just now learning more about the Buddhist teachings, and am trying to be a more peaceful and serene person, and feel that these teachings embody what I already thought, so there for I feel like I was a Buddhist fledgling in a sense already, but just never aware.
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Comments
So in the beginning if you use them with pure intention to have a good heart for all beings they could be part of your path. The spirit of ahimsa or non-harming and the wish for all beings to share in good feelings.
In previous discussions some people have come to the consensus that some drug experiences can open the door a crack, but then you have to learn to get back to that place without a crutch. Saying a crutch is not to belittle but it makes the point in a less dry weight than to say "conditioned phenomenon is not a reliable refuge".
When you use a hallucinogen you are tricking your mind and contaminating your thoughts using chemicals quite foreign to your body in that volume. This is the opposite of mindfulness.
This type of meditation is counter to practice because it yields results that wear off as quickly as the drugs that produced them. Drink plenty of water, sit on something comfortable in a quiet place.
Read a book called "mindfulness in plain English"
I lend this book out to so many people. It is one of the best introductions to meditation I have ever read.
If you are going to meditate, then meditate. And I recommend that you do. No drugs required.
This is not something I do every day, but when I am having a difficult time with something in my head and have exhausted many possibilities I find that a dose of psychadelics will allow me to see it in another light, and I come out with more understanding which gives me peace of mind that I can keep forever.
I don't agree that the state of mind wears off when the drugs do, because I take something away from each trip that stays with me forever, and nothing can take that away.
I love all of your inputs. They are all great and welcome.
edit: I am not saying being under the influence all the time is a tool, but more of a burden. I am talking about using them sparingly and as strong spiritual tool that can gain profound insight.
I must question if forcefully toppling "barriers" and removing "filters" using chemicals is desirable or wise. Whether it works or not.
All of these things can be achieved through meditation with patience.
I agree that I am sure meditation can achieve great things, but I am human and there for I use tools, so why wouldn't I use a tool for my mind?
What you see and what I see completely sober can be two different things, but yet neither would be a lie, because that is our perception.
A near death experience can potentially get you a long way in terms of insight. Still that doesn't mean most people willingly seek life-threatening experiences to gain such an insight. There's a reason for that. There's a risk involved.
We don't all join monasteries and turn into monks in order to get to the truth faster or more eagerly. There's a risk involved.
The Buddha supposedly tried a lot of extreme techniques and asceticism before becoming enlightened. Yet he didn't include those in the teachings of Buddhism. It was risky and apparently not needed in order to attain enlightenment.
You want permission to use psychadelic drugs? Go for it - you're your own person and you're responsible for your own choices. Trying to dress it up as enlightenment is a stretch, though.
I am not trying to argue, but only to have a peaceful sharing of ideas. I am sorry I came off that way.
It may show another path for the intellectual clinger.
Other than that it becomes another form of masturbation.
Also, what did Buddha smoke? I was reading that he condoned smoking, but I highly doubt it was anything like today's cigarettes.
I have so many questions and it is so hard to find all the answers I seek. I have been watching documentaries and absorbing all this information, but I have nobody to ask all these questions that fill my head, and I know that it is very okay to question things, because that is encouraged.
So you start to chase the experience and this creates divide between life and experience.
Meditation allows the same insights but it goes slower thus full integration in all aspects is manifested. But meditation can also be a form of masturbation as well.
So it is best to see all of this as merely rafts that point and show. Without integration it is just another toy or vacation from life.
Get what i mean?
I did it for a while. Lsd, shrooms, etc. it taught me what it had to teach then i moved on. I got serious with buddhism. Ultimately i am thankful but i realize that it could have become an addiction and i have seen how these drugs ruin peoples life.
It isn't an experience that changes you but rather the insight gained from such experiences.
Thus it is meanful up to a point. Whatever our motivation or intent is we must see clearly what is happening.
If we are not honest and sincere then meditation, drugs, really anything becomes another way to avoid reality and ourselves.
In regards to your exotic comment that I think you may be referring to. I didn't go searching out Buddhism I feel that it came to me, and I don't claim to be a Buddhist yet, because I am just now learning about it and making a decision on how it fits me personally. I am not one to emerge myself in unknown waters with a blindfold.
Even this while it seems good is another form of holding that we need to let go of. Its a great start but eventually it is all let go as well.
So you can see the habitual form of clinging can manifest in the subtlest ways. Even the letting go is clinging haha.
Its all about learning to live in composure with reality as it is.
Hope buddhism has something for you.
Whilst practising Buddhism advocates using experience and personal scrutiny, examination and discovering things for yourself, it doesn't mean you can cherry-pick the bits you like and dismiss the bits you don't. No matter what you think you know in your heart.
that particular organ isn't the one affected. Your mind is. And that's where common sense should lie...
Buddhism isn't geared to fitting anyone.The question is, it takes a lot of work and dedication, but you have to fit Buddhism. for monastics it is discouraged as it denotes an attachment to physical pleasures and their distractions.
Laypeople must decide for themselves what they see as appropriate or not. Everything in moderation. Including moderation. Really? news to me.... where did you read that? Yes, but when the answers come back overwhelmingly in one direction, the questioning can stop, and the work then begins.
i think if you end up experimenting with both psychedelics and meditation like myself, and many others have... what you will find out is that these experiences are drastically different with minor qualities that are similar. kind of like comparing a cookie and an apple, both or which are sweet. to think you are accelerating the meditation process, as practiced in Buddhism, by using psychedelics is imo an error.
i would suggest you read what Ram Das has to say on the subject. Ram Das, in case you're not familiar, was a partner-in-crime with Timothy Leary (the 'father' of LSD) and also a Yogi. He took the meditation + psychedelic experience to [I believe] the maximum extent it can be taken.