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Could use some advice
Well, I suppose this question doesn't directly pertain to buddhist philosophy, though the lounge did say "lay off that heady discussion!" so.... well I figured this would be the best place to seek advice. And I'd just like to say the members here have been shown to give way more insightfull advice than anywhere else in the past.
I hope somebody has been in a similar situation and come out alright, but there just seems to be something wrong with me. anyway, it seems more and more I just can't deal with anything in life anymore. In fact, I don't want to. I just can't emotionally cope with having to deal with one more thing.
I'm in my first year of college right now and I'm just avoiding my assignments more all the time. In fact I have a test tomorrow and I've barely studied for it, I might pass it if I'm lucky. I've been in constant pain for 4 years and going now, I only have one friend in town (which I rarely see), and 2 way out of town that I rarely see. I can't make anymore friends because of social anxiety disorder. And oddly enough, maybe just because of the SAD, I can't bring myself to seek professional help either, it feels like I'm being weak or something, I'm not really sure. I've never had a girlfriend either, and I'm 20 years old. Plus my little brother has aspergers syndrome (high-functioning autism), which can make him a handfull.
So I'm finding myself just avoiding having to deal with anything at all. I can't get the willpower to keep cramming for tests and racing to finish assignments all the time. I stay in my room all day, or go out walking, but I barely talk to my family anymore because I just don't want to deal with them at all, since both my dad and sister are so high strung and annoying. I don't even want to see my friends a lot of the time, on the rare time they can come to visit. I often fantasize about going off to live on a tropical island, with no people, where I can just be left alone forever and not have to worry about any responsibilities. and I know I have to keep up with my responsibilities, I have to finish college so I can get a good paying job as a teacher (I can't physically do much else), but I...... well i don't know, I guess I should wrap this up. All I can say is the drive to just stop dealing with everything is getting stronger every day. I don't want to study, or work ,or be in pain, or talk to anybody.... I just want to spend the rest of my life meditating on some tropical beach. My energy to keep pushing has just run out, and I don't know what to do anymore.
I hope somebody has been in a similar situation and come out alright, but there just seems to be something wrong with me. anyway, it seems more and more I just can't deal with anything in life anymore. In fact, I don't want to. I just can't emotionally cope with having to deal with one more thing.
I'm in my first year of college right now and I'm just avoiding my assignments more all the time. In fact I have a test tomorrow and I've barely studied for it, I might pass it if I'm lucky. I've been in constant pain for 4 years and going now, I only have one friend in town (which I rarely see), and 2 way out of town that I rarely see. I can't make anymore friends because of social anxiety disorder. And oddly enough, maybe just because of the SAD, I can't bring myself to seek professional help either, it feels like I'm being weak or something, I'm not really sure. I've never had a girlfriend either, and I'm 20 years old. Plus my little brother has aspergers syndrome (high-functioning autism), which can make him a handfull.
So I'm finding myself just avoiding having to deal with anything at all. I can't get the willpower to keep cramming for tests and racing to finish assignments all the time. I stay in my room all day, or go out walking, but I barely talk to my family anymore because I just don't want to deal with them at all, since both my dad and sister are so high strung and annoying. I don't even want to see my friends a lot of the time, on the rare time they can come to visit. I often fantasize about going off to live on a tropical island, with no people, where I can just be left alone forever and not have to worry about any responsibilities. and I know I have to keep up with my responsibilities, I have to finish college so I can get a good paying job as a teacher (I can't physically do much else), but I...... well i don't know, I guess I should wrap this up. All I can say is the drive to just stop dealing with everything is getting stronger every day. I don't want to study, or work ,or be in pain, or talk to anybody.... I just want to spend the rest of my life meditating on some tropical beach. My energy to keep pushing has just run out, and I don't know what to do anymore.
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There is no such thing. Buddhism isn't a philosophy in that sense. It's something you do. As to your main points - call someone now and I mean now. I don't care who, but call someone and talk to them. Also, get your doctor to refer you to someone who does cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), preferably with mindfulness meditation, and get yourself, for the short term at least, onto some anti depressant medication. This is not social anxiety disorder - that's a term made up to medicalize shyness. It's full blown clinical depression - which produces every single one of the symptoms you describe. Try, if you can, to do some manual work, particularly cleaning and walk, even if it's just around the block or around your yard, every day, for at least 5 minutes. Do the walking in daylight. Ask your doctor to test you for Seasonal Affective Disorder (the real SAD). Also, let your college know that you are being treated for either Seasonal Affective Disorder or depression and ask that you be given some leeway with your coursework. But whatever you do, make that call now.
I have been there!!! I was out of college, with a job, living on my own....had everything I wanted. But I wanted everyone TO LEAVE ME ALONE!
When I left the house, it was to do the necessary things e.g. groceries, banking, and so forth.
I neglected my body, my freinds, my family....
I did EXACTLY what Rev. Genyru said. Made myself move!!! Gardened, walked, got medication, and finally, my mother sat me down and forced me to TALK! I told her everything and felt like 1000000 pounds were lifted off my shoulders!
If you need to talk (e-mail) for more...please PM me!!!!!
Marybeth
Genryu is absolutely right and you must follow his advice. You do not have to be felling this way. Depression is incredibly common and as a result we now have effective ways to deal with it. It's medical and you must see a doctor. You are in no way weak for having the courage to get help. Don't spend another minute of your life like this, because you don't have to.
I have a lot of friends and family members who were trying to deal with this on their own and when they got some help with it their lives changed quite rapidly. Many of them said it was like coming out of a clinging, exhausting fog into clear, warm sunlight and that if they'd known it could be dealt with so effectively they would have asked for help much sooner. So do it now. And please keep us posted so we know how you're doing. K?
With great love and concern,
Brigid
Mr. Devious,
Listen to Sharpiegirl! She knows what she's talking about.
Brigid
Zonmonk, are you actually sudhartha himself? you can tell me, I promise I won't let it out
Well, I just finished working out so I have one hell of an endorphine rush going and I'm feeling pretty good right now. Do I have depression? well maybe, but it's not exactly depression in a traditional sense. When I go to school in the morning I'm very miserable in class. then I get out to the bus-stop and I'm actaully in a very good mood, and in an even better mood on the walk home. then as soon as I get home and anybody from my family talks to me, I feel miserable again, like anybody talking to me just ruined my day in an instant.
Seasonal Affective Disorder? oh most likely, there's a very direct correlation to my mood and the amount of sunlight. on cloudy days I can't dig myself out of the rut, on sunny day's I feel like everything I want in life is possible. However I really don't like anti-depressants. I've tried paxil and effexor, plus one a few years ago that I can't remember. paxil and the other one made me feel tenser, effexor didnt' do anything after a couple weeks. regardless, when all of them were working for the first week or 2 I felt better, but it still felt like the misery was deep down underneath just being covered up. so I can't say I'm a big fan of chemicals, I think the root of my problems needs to be dealt with. On that note, I've comletely stoped smoking pot, decided that I need to move beyond that, and it wasn't feeling good anymore anyway. although I have to say since i stopped my physical pain has increased dramatically, and the only other painkillers I have that work as well get me so stoned I can't even function. seriously, I would toke and go to class and be fine, but with the flexeril they gave me I can barely stay conscious sometimes.
as for your social anxiety disorder theory, you could be correct but I won't discount it quite yet. perhapse conditioning is a more appropriate term than disorder. I got bullied horribly for years in high school and I learned to just cut my self off from all socializing to be left alone as a means of survival, and by the time I left high school that habbit was firmly engrained.
After reading this though, I really think you are all right that I need to get over my fear of seeing a counselor, and I'm going to do so monday morning. I realized I have 2 reasons for avoiding it. 1) on an instinctive level, I realized I've been working my level best to never reveal a weakness to anybody, as years of conditioning taught me that to reveal a weakness means getting bullied anymore during school. I wasn't actaully sure why I avoided help until I realized that today. the other reason 2) is simply because some days I feel okay and then I tell myself "oh, everything's okay now, I can deal with it myself", but I know that's not the case.
I really do want to say thank you to everybody here, I actually feel like you actaully care, which is a rare trait these days. I'll get back to you all on how it's going next week.
I'm glad you're going to see the counselor. Tell him/her everything you've told us and try not to leave anything out. It might be helpful for the counselor if you printed out what you wrote here.
Keep us posted.
And, yes, we do care.
Love
Brigid
I am glad to hear that you are thinking things through...I understand about the chemical treatments for depression. I to was against. I tried 'getting myself' out of it, herbal therapies, etc. However, the bottom line is: It's a chemical imbalance in your brain. The medicine can reestablish those balances.
The first few weeks I was on my meds, I tired easily. Other than that, I had very little to no side effects. Again, if you'd like more info. on my meds and experience, Please private message me!!!
Sharpie
I have fairly frequent bouts with depression, and for a long time, resisted therapy. I think that the biggest issue was that I didn't want to admit that anything was wrong with me. That, and I couldn't get it out of my head that, in seeking therapy, I was essentially crazy. This was very foolish thinking on my part. Once I began to talk to someone, it felt as if 100lbs. had been lifted off of my shoulders. Again, she didn't "fix" all of my problems, but was able to help me get some perspective and set off in the right direction. Additionally, even when you do have family or friends to confide in, sometimes it's still better to speak to a "neutral" party.
Other than that, the biggest contributors to my feeling better have been yoga, meditation, and walking. Yoga is so much more than a physical act. It's a wonderful combination of physical, mental, and spiritually nourishing yourself. There are so many different types of styles & classes - anyone, no matter what age or physical condition - can truly benefit from it.
Lastly, just breathe!!! We often don't realize how much tension we hold inside of ourselves, and the shallow breaths that we take as we rush through our lives just contribute to our anxiety. Think about breathing. Take the deepest breaths that your lungs can hold - slow, relaxed, and controlled. It's an immediate high!
Take care, and please let any of us know what more we can do for you...namaste.
Michaelene's post explains things very well. There is a lot of experiential knowledge and wisdom in there as is in Sharpiegirl's. I think a lot of us resisted the medications for one reason or another but there comes a time when you just don't have any alternatives.
One thing I did want to mention is that anti depressants take a while to start working. You have to give them a fair shot and it could take up to six weeks or longer in some cases. Some people feel sick on them until their body gets used to them. Your doctor prescribed Paxil first, just like mine and when that wasn't helping, prescribed Effexor. They're both anti depressants but they work differently. It sounds like the Effexor was the one that bothered you the least. You might want to give them another try and give them a full six weeks. Your doctor will probably increase the dosage after that and then you may start seeing some positive results.
Both Michaelene and Sharpiegirl pointed something out that's very important. These medications won't solve your problems. What they do is normalize your brain function and when that starts to happen you'll find that you're able to cope with things better. It's like being in the middle of the ocean and trying to get to shore. The medication is your life jacket and it keeps you from drowning. But it's up to you to get back to shore. But without the life jacket it's much, much harder. The medication gives you the fighting chance you need.
I know there's a lot of bs talk and stigma around anti depressants but they have helped millions and millions of people come through the darkness into the light. This is not even to mention the millions of lives they've saved.
If this were 30 years ago getting better would have been much more difficult, if not impossible. But today there's help and you don't have to go through your days feeling like this. It's all about baby steps. One baby step at a time. And before you know it you're going to be looking back on this time as dark days that are long gone, lost in the past. But you have to be patient; with the process and with yourself. It's going to take time.
If I'm understanding you correctly, being around people has a negative effect on you and leaves you exhausted. You just want to be left alone. I remember that feeling so well. I was so fed up with trying to deal with people I wanted to become a lab tech so I could hide from people in a lab all day. I really think I know what you mean and what you're feeling when you say that you feel miserable when you're around other people. It's all part and parcel of the same thing.
Now about the marijuana. I'm an advocate for medicinal marijuana. But not, I repeat, not in cases like yours. I know you don't want to hear this and that's why I have to say it. Marijuana exacerbates the symptoms you're talking about. It's terrible for depression and anxiety related disorders. I know you've heard otherwise, but I'm telling you from direct personal experience and lots of research. Right now, pot is going to make it worse. Put it away until you can get your life back in order. Right now you're trying to keep your head above water without a life jacket. The pot is the cramping in your legs. Wait until you get to shore.
If you tackle this one step at a time and one day at a time you'll get to shore and your entire life will change for the better. Everything I mentioned above is just preliminary stuff to get you to a place where you can start helping yourself get better. To deal with that deep down pain you talked about talk therapy could be of great help. Cognitive behavior Therapy is really wonderful. If you don't have anyone around you who practices this or you don't have the money, just talking to a qualifies therapist will help you. You may have to go through a few before you find one you can really talk to. That's normal. You don't have to settle for someone you're not comfortable with. They all understand this, as well.
So, no pot for now, doctor and meds, therapist for talk therapy (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy if you can get it), exercise, lots of walking, patience with the process and with yourself and a large dose of compassion for yourself. And the Dharma, of course. Whatever you can use of the Dharma, use. And us. We're your soft place to fall. You can fall here anytime, day or night, and somebody will be listening and will come to your aid. You're among friends who care.
With love, concern and faith in you,
Brigid
as you know, you know way more about this than I, however, It may be interesting to note that Ritalin is actually a neuro-stimulator used for hyperactivity-kind of adding fuel to the fire-almost, but the theory is,that if you overstimulate production of neurotransmitters, then you prevent the other(normal) neurotransmitter from using the sites, effectively calming down the patient.
Question: Would this theory not work in the case of depression and marijuana use? I've heard that it can exacerbate depression, but has this theory been tested ?
regards,
Xrayman
Hardly anything Marijuana related has been clinically tested, except depression and it was found that regular use of weed worsened symptoms of depression. But that's not what I base my opinion on. Mine is based on personal experience and I've also found that smoking weed can be like playing Russian Roulette with anxiety.
Another problem with weed is that it affects the brains ability to concentrate on one thing and it's very difficult to practice Buddhism while using it. I'd have to say unequivocally that weed and serious Buddhist practice don't mix. And if I were to choose which one would be of more benefit to Mr. Devious I'd have to say Buddhism.
Also, although I definitely advocate the use of Marijuana in medicinal cases, it would be better in many circumstances if patients had strong meditative practice. That rarely being the case and time being of the essence I think Marijuana is very useful in combating the side effects of chemo and other radical treatments as well as stimulating appetite, dealing with pain and many other things. Casual use, however, is not always a good thing especially of one is dealing with depression and anxiety.
Brigid
here is a side note. This morning I was discussing the use of drugs/alchohol by artists and how there is a higher than average use by creative types.
My wife owns her own business involving Artificial Floral Arrangements-she is highly creative in this sense, she is unable to produce anything if she is using even a slight amount of alcohol.
I have dabbled inPainting and drawing as well as writing over the last 20 years or so-even sold a few, but again, I find it a physical impossibility to create anything-writing included while under the influence of "fire-water".
now heres the crunch, almost all of my favourite artists have used drugs and alcohol and ended up producing amazing creations,
take jackson pollock-artist. alcoholic and drug addict.
Vincent van Gogh-artist. alcoholic.
Brett Whiteley-artist. drug addict and alcohol user/abuser.
many writers/songwriters (Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix, etc.) sorry i can't name more-short term memory is screwed) use drugs and alcohol.
How do they do it?-anything drug related (never used/tried anything except alcohol) causes me to have the right-side of my brain wiped out! I just can't create.
Do you think marijuana has a different effect? enhances creativity?
puzzled,
Xray
I know it has already been said many times, but talking to someone is mandatory. When i was younger, my siblings & I grew up in a very, very disfounctional household with my mother & stepfather. I don't want to get into it too much, but things happened there that shouldn't happen to anyone. I eventually ran away to live with my dad & stepmom. They forced me to go to a therapist, which at the time I protested. But dealing with the issues probably saved my life. I have 2 sisters, one twin and one that is 11 years older that have had very tough lives because of our past. Needless to say, both have refused any therapy at all.
Please seek help, even a school counselor...just someone that you can speak with. I hope that things get better for you.
Actually, I'll PM you about a new study I heard about today (brand new!). It's very interesting.
Brigid
Hey Zenmonk is really on the ball ... He is dead right in everything he said. Yes you do have depression, in my opinion.
By the way you could try a herbal remedy which could help you. Its called Saint John's Werth (Might be spelt a bit off) it's called that in Europe anyway. It is a really good natural alternative to Anti-depressants. It gives you the ability to just get your head above the water of depression. It allows you to breath above the pain and allows you to help yourself.
I have suffered from clinical depression for about ten years now. The way you described your symtoms is very similar to what alot of us suffer. It may not be completly SAD or depression or anxiety ... often one problem can lead to another, unfortunatly. You may have all three, or not, or a mixture.
I took anti-depressants of varying degrees and found they didn't really help. Initially, they did and for some people they are certainly a life saver. So do talk to your GP and get their recommendation, maybe try the Saint Johns werth and if that doesn't help then you could try the synthetic approach.
You do need to try and find out which is your root problem though, Anxiety, SAD or which type of depression. The synthetic drugs do vary considerably and it might take a while to find something that fits with you. You have taken paxel before you said, maybe though you just didn't find the right drug for you. You really should keep trying because nobody should suffer the way you are.
Funnily enough ... it was my depression that really spurred me on with my buddhism. It is the only thing that calms my brain down when it is going off the scale.
You do need cognitive proffessional councilling too. I know its a hard step to take but it really will help. Its not a quick fix, it may take twelve months before you start to really feel the benefits of councilling. Thats probabaly another good reason to try and help yourself with a medication as well.
Oh your so right to give up the pot, initally you feel it may be helping deaden those parts of your head that wont give you peace but overtime it just heightness your feelings of "deadness" Alcohol was my problem... a few drinks and I thought I felt better so I drank more and after a few more I was heading for the nearest bridge.
You, really just need to get your head above water love! You'll find over time what your triggers are and how to help yourself. Depression & Anxiety especially are awful diseases because you find that its practically impossible initally to do the things that will help you because you just dont want to or cant. It can be a vicious cycle but believe me one small step when you have any kind of mental illness is a big thing.
The other thing, if I may suggest, is get a group maybe, Here in Ireland the depression support group is called Aware. I only went to about five meetings but it really was the turning point in my relationship with my illness.
I realised, through the group situation, that if you are suffering from Bi-polar, anxiety, depression or any other form of mental illness that even being able to get out of bed in the morning is a big thing. Being able to get out of bed for people like us when your really at rock bottom is like doing a triathalon for a fitness fanatic. So dont be hard on yourself if you dont get anything done.
Hey if your not part of a Sanga or specific buddhist group, see if you can find one close by. The comfort of nice people will really support you. Its amazing to me how much buddhism does help with depression. I suppose in a way its logical, buddhism is a training of the mind and depression, anxiety etc are aflictions of the mind.
Oh finally there was a member of new buddhist group had put a posting up before about depression and buddhism and articles information etc that I found very intresting. I think the address is http://domanassa.org/blog.
For me depression is like diabetes or any other long term illness, its just something you have and the great news is no matter what form your illness is in you can deal with it and there is nothing to be embarrased ashamed or worried about. In fact admitting to it, openly, can be very freeing.
Your doing really well the fact that you recognise your not in a place you want to be in really is the first step. Hey whats that saying "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Do contact me if you need to ... Anytime ...
Hey and your not on your own and shouldn't feel lonely ... with out sounding too soft and cuddly ... I have come to realise that the people on these boards do REALLY care and are decent nice humans who want to help. So dont ever feel that you on your own.
Mind yourself and hey well done on putting it out there!
Be good
It's 'St John's WORT'.... Hypericum....
I wouldn't normally be so presumptuous as to correct somebody on forum like this, so I apologise for taking the liberty...I hope you're not insulted Grainne...
But I warranted the subject matter to be important enough to impart the information accurately...
And indeed, it is a very very good herbal remedy.
This is a nice site to star off with....
Correct away ... My spelling as ye have guessed by now is not my strongest point.
Im sure your right .. Saint Johns Wort ... I knew I had it wrong.
Your right too imortant .. not to get that information right.
Thanks and always feel free to correct my spelling etc. I can do with the help!
You're a darling, you know that?
Love,
Brigid
I've chosen a path for myself, and I don't really need any further advice on it, this is where I'm set. I haven't talked to anybody yet, and I'm not going to. I've told myself every reason why I should, I've really considered what's been said, but in the end I just can't..... I can't do it, that's all i can say, I don't know why. Today my sister had a friend over for dinner and we all sat down, and I realized even though she was really easy going I couldn't have a conversation with her, or anybody else I meet, it's just too stressfull and I clam up. I rarely see an opportunity to socialize, and when i do every part of my brain is stopping me from doing it and telling me to seek the security of seclusion again. So all in all, I'm giving up on the idea of making friends or having a real social life. I'm going to devote myself from this day forward to spiritual and mental developement, lots of meditation, and finding my inner peace while eliminating this need to have people who care about me. In the past few days I nearly destroyed myself despairing over the fact that nobody cares about me, nobody loves me, nobody ever will. it's in letting go of the need to have people care about me, that I'll find my real inner peace, and this is the ultimate goal for which I strive.
I know that sounds to the average person like the wrong path, but I've come to realize it's the right one for me, and the only one. I know this is right, and I know what acknowledging the need for companionship did to me.
We are all behind you-guaranteed.
i'm leaning more towards that you may actually be agoraphobic, but what the hell would I know-just keep posting Mr. D.
regards,
Xray
I really hope it works out for you. I must say, that it is a riskier route that you are going, but the "conventional" way does not work for everyone. I hope everything works out, and you find happiness.
One thing I must add, is that you must be strong willed. I am reminded of "A Million Little Pieces" (Yeah I know he made some stuff up). James Frey decided that the 12 steps to become sober would not work for him, so he decided to go his own route. He was able to become and stay sober-so as you see, it can work. Good luck to you.
I don't mean to compare your situation to alcoholism, or drug addiction...just pointing out that the road to recovery must come from within, whether that is with help from a professional, or internally.
There are completely valid reasons why you feel the way you do and why you're reacting the way you are. Your decision to devote yourself to meditation and spiritual and mental development is definitely one of the better choices to make if getting help from the health care community is not something you feel you can do right now. It would be so much easier on you if you would see someone but you already know that and I respect your decision completely. I made the same choice myself not so long ago.
I'm not going to give you any advice. I just wanted you to know that I remember so well when I was desperate to get away from the pain and confusion I felt when I was around people. I agonized over every sentence and wondered constantly how I was being seen by others and how I was being misunderstood because I couldn't express my true self or what I was really feeling. I was terrified people were just going to take off on me and abandon me (again). I went into defensive survival mode avoiding contact, drowning in confusion and doubt about myself and about how I was going to be able to cope in the real world.
I know this isn't the same as what you're feeling but I'm hoping it's similar enough because there are a million things I want to say to you and share with you and I'm trying to sift through it all to find the most helpful things I can. I'm not sure if this is going to be of any help to you and I don't even know if it's the right thing to say to you, but I just wanted to give you something that got through to me when I was in such pain. It's a Christian prayer, even though I wasn't a Christian, and it's very famous. You probably know it already. I'm giving it to you because for one reason or another it comforted me and gave me strength when I needed it.
Of course, I don't agree with the last line at all but it helped me in such a profound way that I thought it might be useful to you at the moment. I hope it is because I don't want you to suffer anymore. I want you to know that there is light and there is love and we care about you profoundly. I recognize the wisdom and compassion in your choice and I see how brightly they shine in you.
With great love, compassion and respect,
Brigid
When we become enlightened, a part of us, that is redundant, no longer valid or viable, and an unnecessary attachment, passes away.... it becomes a thing of the past, because Enlightenment is a rebirth into a Life that is eternal. Once enlightened, we cannot go back....
This is how my Catholic Priest equated this very prayer to Buddhist mind-set.
How odd that you should post it, Brigid.
And I wanted to emphasise that it was my old Catholic Parish priest, who discussed this prayer with me in this vein.
Not all those in authority, in the Catholic faith, are 'demons in disguise'.
Good post Brigid.
Brigid