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Is Buddhism just voidism ?
PremaSagar
Veteran
I found the following from a Vaishnavite website:
"I think you do not completely comprehend what it means to be a Buddhist and what the Buddhist philosophy really is. It is really miserable and really artificial. Ultimately it is about ceasing to exist and entering the void. But actually we can not cease to exist and there is no void anywhere within the material or spiritual worlds. These days, because the actual Buddhist philosophy is so miserable, the modern Buddhists are changing it and saying things like you are saying about the beautiful land you will go to after nirvana, etc. But this is nonsense. In Buddhism there is no beautiful land to go to. The Buddhists analyze everything and come to the conclusion that everything is a source of misery so their ultimate conclusion is that everything should be given up, everything should be taken away. And when you take away everything you are left with nothing and that is the true Buddhistic concept of Nirvana."
Your thoughts ?
"I think you do not completely comprehend what it means to be a Buddhist and what the Buddhist philosophy really is. It is really miserable and really artificial. Ultimately it is about ceasing to exist and entering the void. But actually we can not cease to exist and there is no void anywhere within the material or spiritual worlds. These days, because the actual Buddhist philosophy is so miserable, the modern Buddhists are changing it and saying things like you are saying about the beautiful land you will go to after nirvana, etc. But this is nonsense. In Buddhism there is no beautiful land to go to. The Buddhists analyze everything and come to the conclusion that everything is a source of misery so their ultimate conclusion is that everything should be given up, everything should be taken away. And when you take away everything you are left with nothing and that is the true Buddhistic concept of Nirvana."
Your thoughts ?
0
Comments
Thank you !
From the outside buddhism looks like this or that.
But really if you really are sincere about buddhism. Well then you will be a very happy person. Why? No more denial!
Because thing lack inherent existence, everything is possible.
I think the problem and reason people have that type of misunderstanding, is they haven't studied it thoroughly. Its not that everything is inherently imbued with misery... Its that our conditioned habitual ways of interacting with are experience are inherently prone to produce suffering.
The idea isn't to give up the whole world and enter into a void of nothingness and ambiguity... It's removing the causes of suffering in the mind. Loosening your clingy grip a bit on your attachments, putting your actions into accordance with the naturals laws so you are in greater harmony with your experience/existence, and clear your mind of defilements like anger, green, etc which allows the beautiful qualities of the mind to arise and shine through.
Well voidness is completely misunderstood here, and it doesn´t match with anything the Buddha supposedly said about the subject.
Voidness in buddhism doesn´t mean that we are void of everything (cessation of existence), it means we are void of particular things. The buddha explain it basically in terms of absence of negative states by going throw different levels of meditation/different levels of voidness..
So lets say that during all your existence u had the 5 hindrances (Sensual desire,Anger or ill-will,Sloth-torpor or boredom,Restlessness-worry,Doubt) and by means of diligence in your practice you got to a place where they just are not there anymore, there is not a single perception connected with those subjects.U are still here, u can talk, walk, sit, think, but there is this emptiness of that particular matters..its just that.
For better analysis please check sutta (MN-121 The Lesser Discourse on Emptiness).
With metta.
I agree with federica -- this is a very confused and ill-informed depiction of Buddhism. Those who interpret Buddhism from the intellectual and emotional point of view -- whether to praise or blame it -- will invariably go off course. Buddhism does not find its truth in intellectual and emotional posturings. Buddhism finds its truth in the individual effort to get to the bottom of things.
To posit a void or nothingness is just another way of positing materialism -- the notion that only things of substance are true. "Nothing" invariably relies on "something." "Something" invariably relies on "nothing." Buddhism is not like this. This is the intellectual and emotional -- which is to say the limited -- approach. The Buddhism of those who make a personal effort is not like this. Such an effort is unlimited. Such an effort leads to the understanding that relying on "something" and relying on "nothing" are equally unstable and mistaken. It may sound fancy, but in fact there is nothing fancy about it, whether described in positive or negative terms.
It is true that we all begin our practice out of what is sometimes called "suffering" -- a pretty gloomy word which is sometimes rendered as "unsatisfactoriness." Somehow our lives feel wobbly and incomplete and that unsatisfactoriness expresses itself in a lot of ways. Why does what makes me happy today make me sad tomorrow ... or vice versa? How can I be happy in a way that is not subject to the change that is all around me all the time? Etc. With such a sense of our own unsatisfactory realm, we listen to The Four Noble Truths and evaluate them as best we may. Perhaps we agree with them ... or maybe just mostly agree. And from there we investigate The Eightfold Path -- the suggestions that Gautama made for living a less discombobulated and unsatisfactory life. And all of this is completely our choice. There is no imperative other than our own imperative. There is no effort without our own, personal effort. There is no Buddhism without individualized action and effort. "Buddhism" as a talking point is only as useful as the actions we bring to bear. And after bringing action to bear, the need to find a talking point is largely reduced.
What begins as an intellectual and emotional approach is transformed through individual effort. No longer are intellect and emotion the high priests of our existence. In fact, we are led back to what we knew all along ... that experience tells the tale. It is a tale that trumps hope, belief, intellect and emotion. Like a man who has read innumerable books about playing the piano or riding a bicycle ... well, actually playing or actually riding provide a profound and unshakeable experience. Nothing special and yet quite special indeed. It is neither gloomy nor elevated ... it's just a fact.
And then too, it is quite a lot of fun.
Just noodling.
Buddhism is not nihilism. Buddhism is a Middle Way between nihilism and eternalism. I read that somewhere.
Buddhism doesn't teach "everything is a source of misery". It teaches our own mind is the source of misery, and shows us how to drop our bad habits and get to joy.
@compassionate_warrior
The Vaishnavites seem to believe that Buddha was an avatar who only came to establish vegetarianism and establish "Ahimsa Paramo Dharma" (Non-Violence as the Highest religion).
But they seem to neglect other facets of Buddha's teachings.
Try reading this.
To paraphrase Thich Naht Hahn, he says Buddhists in the past have focused too much on the misery and suffering, thereby missing the joy in life.
Maybe some of this comes from the word 'dukkha' being translated into 'suffering'?
I don't think I explained myself properly; some parts of Buddhism can be perceived as being negative, when they're not really; neither are they always positive, but they're always realistic.
With metta.
"If you look long enough into the VOID the VOID begins to look back through you." ~ Nietzsche