Body Scan

LittleMighty

I'm having issues with the body scan in Meditation. Please note I'm still very new to Meditation, which is what I think my biggest problem is.
I can start off well enough at my toes and work up, but its at my knees I'm having trouble. It seems the knee of 'focus' actually 'locks up'. I've tried coming back to the breath, and even repeating things like 'pain' (which it isn't so much pain..More like pressure?) or sensation. But it's so much of a distraction I have trouble continuing. I'm not sure if I should just ignore it and move on? or try to "Do" something about it. It makes it difficult for me to continue the body scan.
Has anyone else experienced this? Any advice? I'd sure appreciate any insite you can offer.
Thanks.

taiyaki

So there is tension in the knees?

Notice the tension or pain. Just see the sensation for what it is.
Usually just noticing it and acknowledging it will allow it to release itself.
If that doesn't work then give yourself permission to loosen that area up.

What really helps with body scanning is to focus on one area such as the chest then from there bring your attention to other areas all while keeping the focus on the chest.

Eventually you'll be able to have your focus on the whole body.

Then the magic starts to happen.

Usually tension is built up over time. It also helps to exercise that area and do some stretches to loosen it up. Breathing in and out while focusing on the area works as well. The overall goal is to open such area and let the flow of awareness do the rest.

LittleMighty

Thanks Taiyaki. After I finished my meditation last night, I finally moved the knee and it actually Popped! How weird is that? I have been doing Yoga a few nights a week. There are times during the body scan that it seems like my in breath goes to a place in my body and the out breath takes the tension away. This doesn't seem to be the case with the knee however. lol.

zombiegirl

perhaps you need a different posture? how are you sitting?

you shouldn't automatically assume that you should ignore your body. depending on the intensity of the feeling/pressure, your body might be trying to tell you something and only you can be the judge of this. like other parts of the body, the knee relies on balance for proper working order. putting too much pressure/torque on the joint could potentially result in damage to the meniscus (the layers of cartilage on each side of the knee) or overstretching the protective tendons. the "pressure" you feel probably really IS pressure as (assuming you are sitting in lotus position) the position may cause your tibia to compress too much on your medial meniscus (there are pictures in the second link i provided below).

the pop you heard is not weird, btw. it's more than likely a cavitation. joints are lubricated by a substance called synovial fluid and it is the production of this substance that creates air bubbles of their byproducts (namely, CO2, nitrogen, oxygen). stretching a joint can cause a rapid release of these byproducts and viola, you hear a pop aka cavitation. this is what chiropractors do.
now, if the sound was more like a snap, it could also be your tendon snapping back into place after moving your posture. sometimes tendons/ligaments tighten after being in one position for a while and suddenly changing that may cause the tendon/ligament to snap back into place.

i have read that full lotus can easily cause knee problems if one progresses to it too fast. for myself, i found that burmese posture is the most comfortable and relieves pressure, but you will need a meditation cushion/zafu. but of course, there is nothing wrong with meditating in a chair or lying down either.

An illustration of different meditation postures.

An article on the dangers of improper full lotus posture.

Jeffrey

nice post zombiegirl

LittleMighty

Actually, I was lying down. IDK. It's not that I'm trying to ignore it per say, but I guess my thinking is I should be able to have some kind of mental control over it. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself?

Telly03

I have the same issues @littlemighty , I am rehabing a knee and it's going slow, but slow progress is still progress. I use the burmese posture and double up on the cushions. I'll even turn the top cushion up on it's side if I'm still feeling knee pressure. The higher up you are, the less strain on your knees. You can also play around with thinner cushions underneath your zafu, so that you can gradually come down as your knees adapt, but the key is not to push it.

Jeffrey

LittleMighty, so your saying your knee popped and feels weird while you are lying down? I don't understand how it could do that if it is stable and not moving. So I am trying to understand what is going on better.

LittleMighty

I've had issues with my knee in the past. There has not been a recent issue. Everything has been fine. I was good going into the meditation. But as soon as I got to my knee in the body scan it was like a switch flipped. I wonder if I'm projecting it? If that's the case, what can I do to get around that?

zombiegirl

Actually, I was lying down. IDK. It's not that I'm trying to ignore it per say, but I guess my thinking is I should be able to have some kind of mental control over it. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself?

Well that's a horse of another color. It could be that your body is somewhat misaligned and you could still have pressure building in the joint or it could just be a mental block. It is also quite common for people to have pressure/pain that they ignore on a daily basis, but during meditation, you suddenly become aware of the problem. You could try placing a pillow beneath your knees and see if it helps this problem. You could also try doing some stretches before meditation.

zombiegirl

I've had issues with my knee in the past. There has not been a recent issue. Everything has been fine. I was good going into the meditation. But as soon as I got to my knee in the body scan it was like a switch flipped. I wonder if I'm projecting it? If that's the case, what can I do to get around that?

I was going to ask if you had any previous injuries. I think that perhaps you should go back to taiyaki's comment, his advice seems quite sound on this. You might just have to work on it a bit.

taiyaki

Just be with it. Nurse it with loving awareness.
Give it space and allow it to be as it is.
If you can handle it, just do that.

Jeffrey

Jon Kabatt Zinn said something similar to taiyaki said. If one part of the body 'demands attention' you can bring your mindfulness there briefly and then return it gently to the area you are working on. So while you are feeling the knee it's a time for your awareness to feel whatever that is that you feel. A blockedness is a valid feeling. And then if your mind returns to the knee when you are working another area you may gently return to the knee and honor that before returning to the area you were working. I also like zombiegirls idea that you might be becoming more aware of your knee rather than causing a problem.

LittleMighty

Ok, this is all good advice. I appreciate everyones input. :)Thank you all very much.

taiyaki

I was having quite a bit of lustful thoughts recently and they were the source of my intense upper back pain.

So I just sat with immense pain and weight on my upper back and i realized that it was lustful thoughts that triggered the arising of the clenching on my upper back.

So instead of having lustful thoughts, i transformed them into loving kindness and gradually the pain released itself.

just an example from my meditation experience.

LittleMighty

Now that is something to ponder,@taiyaki. My thoughts aren't of lustful nature, but I have been distraced with other things....I'll think on this for a time. Thank you.

person

I was having quite a bit of lustful thoughts recently and they were the source of my intense upper back pain.

So I just sat with immense pain and weight on my upper back and i realized that it was lustful thoughts that triggered the arising of the clenching on my upper back.

So instead of having lustful thoughts, i transformed them into loving kindness and gradually the pain released itself.

just an example from my meditation experience.

Underneath the shoulderblade?

I'm gathering information for a theory of mine.

taiyaki

we also tend to ignore the whole lower body.

so it is good to do grounding yoga poses. where you naked feet touch the ground and feel completely with our feet meeting the ground.

we also tend to lock our knees as we walk about and stand. it is better to bend the knees slightly, which also takes away the pressure placed in the lower back.

i highly recommend a yoga practice or stretch routine that you do prior to meditation.

taiyaki

I was having quite a bit of lustful thoughts recently and they were the source of my intense upper back pain.

So I just sat with immense pain and weight on my upper back and i realized that it was lustful thoughts that triggered the arising of the clenching on my upper back.

So instead of having lustful thoughts, i transformed them into loving kindness and gradually the pain released itself.

just an example from my meditation experience.

Underneath the shoulderblade?

I'm gathering information for a theory of mine.

to be specific it is connected to the back of the heart chakra on the spine and near the jade pillow. connecting the energy of the heart from the front and the back through breathing creates an expanse and openness.

when the mind was full of lust the energy was being blocked and accumulated.

this is my theory. thoughts have direct relation to chakras, which in turn effect the breath and body.

person

to be specific it is connected to the back of the heart chakra on the spine and near the jade pillow. connecting the energy of the heart from the front and the back through breathing creates an expanse and openness.

when the mind was full of lust the energy was being blocked and accumulated.

this is my theory. thoughts have direct relation to chakras, which in turn effect the breath and body.

Yes, I'm with you. I studied and practiced Shiatsu massage for a time and one of the main heart points is along the back near the shoulderblades, also right by the heart chakra so hard to say if its one or the other or the same thing. Anyway, I came across several people I knew well enough to say they had lustful tendencies, myself included, and all had painful knots around that area.

Jeffrey

@person and @taiyaki, What's the diffence between lustful and just ordinary sexuality? It seems to be relevant to the topic in a context as relevant though we must be careful not to hijack.

person

@person and @taiyaki, What's the diffence between lustful and just ordinary sexuality? It seems to be relevant to the topic in a context as relevant though we must be careful not to hijack.

I don't know. Physical vs emotional attraction?

taiyaki

well i am not sure jeffrey.

i've been practicing a bit of qigong and the purpose is to arouse sexual energy so that sexual energy can turn into spiritual energy. this is done via the microcosmic orbit.

in a way i think there is pure sexual energy, which is more like complete energetic bliss. whereas normal sexual energy in a way for me is attached to becoming unconscious and many karmic patterns arise out of such blinding lust.

lust with awareness is the practice of qigong and i think in a way its transforming that energy into a more embracing/love energy. that i think is key.

so i think the difference is how one views sexuality as a whole.

this is something that i have been working on and probably will still be working on for a long time.

sexuality has this great potential that we lose because we in a way fear it through conditioning. thus we become quite unconscious when it comes to sex.

thus lust and sex can really forget the important aspect of heart and communion.

balance? =]

Jeffrey

I had a dream and in it I saw a cloth doll-like figure and I self identified with the figure. The region of the sacral area (pelvis) was a sort of sickly discolored yellow and I was quite horrified. The rest of the doll was flesh colored (for us caucasians). And no it was not anatomically correct I think the sacral area is one of difficulty for me. In meditation my hands are on my knees but if I cup my hands near the sacral area I feel a certain bliss.