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Dharma teachers and the misleading of students
Jeffrey
Veteran
This is a topic we have had before but I couldn't find it with search. I found a discussion on buddhism connect (a free email of question/answer with Lama Shenpen) that pertained to teacher relationships in the case of mislead students.
What if a Dharma teachers misleads students?
Summary: It is always possible that a Dharma teacher may be deceiving themselves and misleading their students. It is important that students find a way of speaking up, rather than giving up their Dharma study when this happens. The whole area of student/teacher relationships is still developing in the West and it needs more discussion.
A student asks:
I am not a Dharma teacher but I would like to comment on your email about when the student-teacher relationship goes wrong.
Lama Shenpen replies:
Thank you for your email and I think it is worth opening up discussion on this point. It is a very tricky one and there is a lot of grief around caused by people’s encounters with Buddhist teachers. It arises from both the behaviour of some of the teachers and also from the behaviour of some students (who have unrealistic expectations). In both cases situations are created that we all have to deal with so it’s good to discuss the issues from time to time.
Student:
Keeping quiet about things doesn’t always help the other person as they might think they have other people’s approval as no one has said anything.
Lama Shenpen replies:
That is true. It is important to try to find a way of speaking up and that is not easy. It is not always easy to assess what the real situation is and how accurate one’s own perception is. Also it is not easy to confront a person who is deceiving themselves and especially if they are in a situation where everyone is supporting them in their delusion (which can be the case with a charismatic teacher surrounded by adoring disciples). That situation is very harmful for all concerned and for the teacher in particular. It is a well known problem from the time of the Buddha and in every spiritual tradition. We do have to find ways round it. In well established spiritual communities there are colleagues and/or superiors to keep teachers in line and to protect teachers from the projections of students. Dharma is new in the West and so teachers and students often don’t have much in the way of colleagues and superiors to intervene when needed. So yes, a lot of discussion is there waiting to be had.
Student:
I have seen this a lot with Dharma students. A lot of students feel that in order to be a Buddhist they need to be a “door mat” and accept behaviour they can see is wrong. So they move away from Buddhism and their own study suffers or even stops altogether as the student gets “stuck” at this point and never progresses, abandoning Dharma.
Lama Shenpen:
Yes this is a very sad situation. However it has always been the case that there are charlatans who deceive themselves and lead people astray. We have all to be the look out for that. Just because one set up turns out to be unsatisfactory that doesn’t mean we have to abandon the Dharma. It means we have to learn how to be more discerning and clear about what kind of situation we find our Dharma practice flourishes in and where it does not. If we find ourselves in a situation where we are criticizing the teacher internally and not learning from them but hanging on not saying anything – then ask yourself why you are hanging on like that…if you find its because you are criticising yourself excessively in a way that is not leading to a genuine sense of letting go and becoming more simple and empowered, then this is a bad sign. Don’t let yourself get stuck in a situation like that.
Find another teacher. Whether you say something or not to the person involved depends on how successful you think saying something is likely to be. Weigh it up. You are right to think that it is not good for the teacher to go on thinking that everyone thinks their behaviour is OK when it isn’t. Weigh it up. Have the courage to speak up if you think it will help the situation and prevent further damage to others.
It is good also to make pranidhanas and call on the Buddhas for help. I am sure our sincere prayers do help the situation.
What if a Dharma teachers misleads students?
Summary: It is always possible that a Dharma teacher may be deceiving themselves and misleading their students. It is important that students find a way of speaking up, rather than giving up their Dharma study when this happens. The whole area of student/teacher relationships is still developing in the West and it needs more discussion.
A student asks:
I am not a Dharma teacher but I would like to comment on your email about when the student-teacher relationship goes wrong.
Lama Shenpen replies:
Thank you for your email and I think it is worth opening up discussion on this point. It is a very tricky one and there is a lot of grief around caused by people’s encounters with Buddhist teachers. It arises from both the behaviour of some of the teachers and also from the behaviour of some students (who have unrealistic expectations). In both cases situations are created that we all have to deal with so it’s good to discuss the issues from time to time.
Student:
Keeping quiet about things doesn’t always help the other person as they might think they have other people’s approval as no one has said anything.
Lama Shenpen replies:
That is true. It is important to try to find a way of speaking up and that is not easy. It is not always easy to assess what the real situation is and how accurate one’s own perception is. Also it is not easy to confront a person who is deceiving themselves and especially if they are in a situation where everyone is supporting them in their delusion (which can be the case with a charismatic teacher surrounded by adoring disciples). That situation is very harmful for all concerned and for the teacher in particular. It is a well known problem from the time of the Buddha and in every spiritual tradition. We do have to find ways round it. In well established spiritual communities there are colleagues and/or superiors to keep teachers in line and to protect teachers from the projections of students. Dharma is new in the West and so teachers and students often don’t have much in the way of colleagues and superiors to intervene when needed. So yes, a lot of discussion is there waiting to be had.
Student:
I have seen this a lot with Dharma students. A lot of students feel that in order to be a Buddhist they need to be a “door mat” and accept behaviour they can see is wrong. So they move away from Buddhism and their own study suffers or even stops altogether as the student gets “stuck” at this point and never progresses, abandoning Dharma.
Lama Shenpen:
Yes this is a very sad situation. However it has always been the case that there are charlatans who deceive themselves and lead people astray. We have all to be the look out for that. Just because one set up turns out to be unsatisfactory that doesn’t mean we have to abandon the Dharma. It means we have to learn how to be more discerning and clear about what kind of situation we find our Dharma practice flourishes in and where it does not. If we find ourselves in a situation where we are criticizing the teacher internally and not learning from them but hanging on not saying anything – then ask yourself why you are hanging on like that…if you find its because you are criticising yourself excessively in a way that is not leading to a genuine sense of letting go and becoming more simple and empowered, then this is a bad sign. Don’t let yourself get stuck in a situation like that.
Find another teacher. Whether you say something or not to the person involved depends on how successful you think saying something is likely to be. Weigh it up. You are right to think that it is not good for the teacher to go on thinking that everyone thinks their behaviour is OK when it isn’t. Weigh it up. Have the courage to speak up if you think it will help the situation and prevent further damage to others.
It is good also to make pranidhanas and call on the Buddhas for help. I am sure our sincere prayers do help the situation.
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Comments
That would seem reasonable.
First, he makes several references to the problem of protecting the teachers from the students as if that is as much of a problem as teachers abusing the relationship. He alludes to the students bearing responsibility by supporting the teacher's delusions, and "That situation is very harmful for all concerned and for the teacher in particular".
That is false equivalence. Harmful for the teacher in particular?? Utter nonsense. Don't insult my intelligence by saying the poor teacher is the one needing protected from his students, or that his superiors and fellow Masters don't hold responsibility for allowing it to happen just because there's no direct supervision. There is as much abuse going on in established Temples as the Lamas and other Teachers look the other way.
But this Lama should reflect on an even greater sin in his words, and that is telling people their decision to speak up to help everyone "depends on how successful you think saying something is likely to be". Arrgh! No, no, no! You use that yardstick, you will never, ever, have the courage to speak out when you see a wrong. This man should not be allowed to give spiritual advice if that is how he truly thinks.
The honest, true answer should have been: "Yes, it is a problem. We Teachers struggle with our egos and desires not to cause conflict, just as you do. We ask you to trust us, to have faith in us, and sometimes we fall short of our own teachings. For that, I apologize on behalf of myself, my order, and all Teachers who have caused suffering. All I can do is promise if I see abuse going on, or if a student has the courage to speak up, I will attempt to have enough courage to help."
Doesn't that sound more like an honest spiritual Teacher and less like a politician?
I doubt you feel the students have no role from their side. I took the advice as how the students can make choices to improve the situation not as an excuse for teachers to act poorly.
Its harmful for the deceptive teacher in that they are creating negative karma for themselves. This would have been a good thing to say. IMO it should have been said in addition to the other comments not instead of them though.
I also disagree with my teacher on the last point that you should speak up. I think she is talking about speaking up to the teacher, however. I had an experience with a job rehabilitation government worker. He didn't answer his phone or email when I needed to talk to him over a period of a month he did not answer. I basicly discovered that using this worker was a waste of my time. I just walked away from the situation. Obviously if this person was not answering their mail/phone it would not have helped to talk to him. I think that is what she is saying. But if there are superiors I think it's good to talk to them. Assuming they aren't also corrupt. Lama Shenpen did mention that there is a lack of peers in the west. So I basicly think she is saying to make a judgement if it's worthwhile to speak out. Because obviously it is going to be difficult emotionally. I think @Cinorjer may not have considered the difficulty in speaking up. It's quite a decision to invest that emotional energy and if it isn't going to help anything? Well what then?
I also think it is a good point that you don't have to give up on gurus or the dharma as a result of experiencing corruption.
So this raises the question: how to introduce accountability? For the time being the only way is for the sangha to enact rules for the teachers, written into a contract is my suggestion, and also let the students know they can complain to management. Of course, these suggestions assume the management is interested in maintaining ethics and integrity in the sangha, and that there are no hidden agendas, and this isn't always the case.
Sexual harrassment counselors and ombudsmen always say, Speak up to the perpetrator. The university student doesn't feel this is possible, though, because grades are involved. In a spiritual setting, there tend to be congregants who come from dysfunctional or abusive family backgrounds, and they're simply not able to speak up. That's why there are rules for clergy/teachers. So although this is good advice, it's only useful for sangha members who have the confidence to speak up. Even if you advise everyone when they join that they should tell the teacher his/her attention is unwanted, it's not going to happen in some cases, perhaps many cases. It's easier to speak to a third party, such as someone in a position of responsibility in the sangha. Staff need to let students know they're approachable, and that they have the students' interests at heart. There needs to be some outreach.
Adult students are not responsible for any teachers' corruption, but they are responsible for continuing to study from that teacher instead of finding a better one.
The Buddhist instructions state so clearly how important it is to examine teachers until settling on one. It may be hard to find the right teachers for you, but they are absolutely out there. If the one nearby is not good for you, don't go; it's better to have fewer, better teachings, than keep attending a center where you don't feel good.
Remember - just because you don't like them doesn't mean they aren't doing a good job for someone else. Some of my best high school teachers were the meanest. But I've never met a mean Buddhist teacher.
btw, I was snooping on a Tibetan forum, I mean "lurking"
In my own school, a question to Master Seung Sahn about how his teaching conflicted with one of the sutras claimed was responded to with, "That was his understanding, this is mine. What's your understanding?"
In most cases, the students didn't establish the sangha - the teachers did. I don't feel the teachers are necessarily responsible for leaving.
Buddhism itself is a code of conduct. What you're saying is you need a legal tool for firing teachers. I disagree with this approach, because too many western students are not prepared for rigorous study, and sometimes when a teacher talks about rigorous things, westerners freak out and want some kind of comfortable non-rigor; even going so far as to call the teacher abusive.
I do not want a watered-down Buddhism. I want the real thing, with all its cultural legacies, which themselves carry much, much meaning we often overlook. That's my personal opinion; others may feel that what I rather pejoratively (and perhaps unfairly) refer to as "watered down," is actually "safer." People have a right to want something that feels safer to them. But please, don't try to take away someone else's experience - destroy it, outlaw it, regulate it into oblivion. The answer instead is to establish your own sangha, expending all the time, effort and money that takes, just as the teacher you are reacting against did, long ago.
I know you feel the issue is a simple one of "abuse," as if it is possible for people to agree on what abuse is, but I disagree that it is possible. One person's abuse is exactly the thing that works for another student - the thing that reaches his or her understanding. It is simply not true that there are easy, unanimous definitions of abuse.
I truly don't want a system where, like universities, professors have to walk around on eggshells instead of having the freedom to give hard-hitting, meaningful teachings in their own style. There are multiple teachers, multiple sanghas, multiple approaches. The code of conduct stuff, while well-meaning, dilutes everything to pap.
I guess put another way, if the abuse you're talking about is manageable by a code of conduct, it hardly constitutes abuse. If it does constitute abuse, it is not a code of conduct that should address it, but the local constable, imho.
Yup
There are no laws against abuse or coercion, unless outright assault is involved, and even then, it's difficult to prove. All the police can do is take a report, and some might decline to do even that.
It's true some centers are founded and run by the teacher, but they do have a board of directors. The board has the ultimate say, but often boards are made up not of independent thinkers, but of staunch supporters of the teacher. This has turned out to be an extremely serious problem in the Zen community, at the national level, for example. As the dharma community learns from experience, and becomes to some extent sadder but wiser, hopefully preventive measures can be devised to address misconduct issues.
There's no urgency here. These teachers are the very last of their kind. They will pass away, and no one will replace them--not in the sense that, up until now, they have been replaced by people whose study was as rigorous as theirs.
I don't want them muzzled. I want to enjoy their teachings, in whatever fiery blaze of final glory its form takes.
Soon enough, those who want codes of conduct will get their wish. But I can't afford to travel to Tibet, and they wouldn't let me in if I could. So I want my teachers exactly the way they are, because this is the final generation. This is my last chance to take teachings from teachers of this rigor of tradition.
It reminds me of stories of the old Gaelic order - poets wouldn't think of putting pen to paper until they'd studied poetry 20 years or so.
I wonder, why has the system suddenly changed? If people studied 30 years back in the day, why don't they still? Maybe these new guys on the scene, teaching in their 20's, are continuing their studies all along. hmm... The Dalai Lama continued his studies after arriving in India. Has the Karmapa continued his studies?
Pema Chodron became a nun in 1974. In 1981 she was ordained. She was appointed an acharya (senior teacher) by Trungpa's son in 1992. :buck: :buck: :buck:
I'm very grateful for the teachers we have, and will continue to have; I simply mean that Tibet has been for the most part irreversibly changed. It's not just religions traditions that evaporate, but music - whereas in my grandparents day the average Tibetan knew hundreds of songs (as is common in most cultural traditions), that number has plummeted, and wide swaths of Tibetans no longer even speak Tibetan.
The situations under which the masters of our time (or, in some cases their own masters) studied no longer exist in many cases. We don't have to put a qualitative label on that, I guess, but suffice to say, any benefits of that old system will disappear with it, and we may not know what those were. Certainly, like it or not, that old system is hugely responsible for us having any Buddhism to study at all.
Life changes - it's inevitable. But because I'm fortunate enough to live in a time where I can still hear, directly from someone who studied under the old system or at least studied from someone who was brought up under the old system, I treasure it, because it's the end of a certain line for that aspect of Tibetan Buddhism. I understand the fear that drives some to concentrate on the perceived faults of the old system, but I'm more interested in what I perceive to be the benefits of the old system.
Extinction is the reality of our age; in my lifetime, hundreds of languages have gone extinct, taking with them thousands of years of human history, music and medicinal knowledge. I guess when the old form of Tibetan Buddhism goes extinct, some will rejoice, but I just don't feel that way about it, any more than I was glad when my Grandpa died, simply because he represented an older, more prejudiced society.
There is also the potential for renewal. Young teachers like Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche give me lots of hope for the future. I think the most important thing is whether these gifted teachers continue to choose rebirth here among us.