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Redemption

edited January 2012 in Buddhism Today

How does redemption fit, or not fit, into Buddhism?

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    It doesn't.
    Your only redeemer, is you.
    Tjhere is no retribution, and there is no redemption, outside of yourself.
  • Since the human condition is universal, the human problems a religion are asked to address are universal and so the religions must somehow attempt to answer the same universal human problems. Redemption is just our universal desire to be rescued from the troubles of the world. For all our convoluted theology, religion boils down to basic emotion. We feel sometimes that the world is a vast sea of troubles and we're drowning in it. Religion is the helping hand pulling you into the lifeboat. All religions must offer redemption, or it remains just a philosophy with no transforming power.

    Some religions have redemption from sin, but we have redemption from suffering. Some religions bring redemption through the act of surrendering your will to a higher power, but we embrace the Dharma.

    When we say, "I take refuge in the Buddha." we are making a statement about the power of redemption.
  • ZeroZero Veteran
    The concept of sin abdicates responsibility for the action.

    The parameters of what is a sin is defined outside of yourself so inevitably there will be a resulting internal struggle. By seeking redemption from an external source, again responsibility for the consequences of the action is abdicated and there is no real resolution of the internal issues - the classic redemption model does not therefore, on the face of it, fit well with Budhhism.

    In my mind however the concept of redemption does fit into buddhism - the issue is redemption from what? It is not sin that we seek to eliminate but suffering - thus as Cinojer says redemption from suffering sits perfectly well with Budhhist practice...
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    Redemption does fit into Buddhism such stories of Angulimala and Milarepa are prime examples.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited January 2012
    I'd say that, in Buddhism, one redeems oneself by making a conscious effort to abandon unskillful actions of body, speech, and mind that cause harm to one's self as well as other, and begin acting in more skillful ways—ways influenced by non-greed, non-hatred, and non-delusion (e.g., see MN 86 and SN 42.8).

  • Perhaps "redemption" is a very loaded word. Here's the connection I made with it and Buddhism:

    Recently, I made a chain of big mistakes at work. Because of it, I felt like a bad person, a screw up, a loser. The mistakes became who I was, in my eyes (and possibly my superiors). In my mind, my mistakes seemed like they would leave a lasting stain on my career, and, as a consequence, my life.

    Deep inside, I felt like I wanted to redeem myself. To prove myself worthy, to others as well as myself. I wanted to remake myself. To be a better person from that day on, and to not be saddled with yesterday's baggage. This feeling was energizing and positive.

    So, to switch to the Buddhist framework: My mistakes at work lead me to personalize my mistake, so that "bad" is who I become. And I believed that those mistakes would have a permanent negative effect on my career and life.

    In my interpretation, Buddhist "redemption" is, to a degree, an application of anatta and anicca: You are letting go of the past notion of self and thus witnessing the impermanence of everything you thought was your past self.

    How is redemption possibly not like Buddhism? One problem is that redemption may be an attempt to destroy the "bad self" and replace it with the notion of a "good self", which you then identify with and attempt to make permanent-- things which lead to delusion and suffering.

    What do I like about some notion of redemption? It seems to be a more powerful, positive motivating force. It seems striving to become "good" in some way has more energy than simply realizing there is no one to become.

    Is there a best of both worlds? A "wise redemption"? A striving to let go of the "bad" person and become the "good" person, while keeping in mind these are artificial categories whose conditions are impermanent? I hope so.


    Anyway, here's what some other guy said about it:

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/happiness-in-world/201101/redemption
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Just because our selves aren't concrete things doesn't mean they aren't fluid things, and one fluid state can be considered better than another fluid state.

    Categories of good and bad are relative not non existent. So its fine to want to try to be a better person just realize that there's never any resting place of 'good' that you can make it to.
  • Hi Buddhajunkie,
    Redemption is a Christian notion, but I think it applies because we can redeem ourselves in the eyes of others and more importantly ourselves. If we are contrite and repentant we can begin to make amends, Hui Neng the Zen patriarch talks about this, but for me I understand it as making an intention to change in a positive way... in this way you will be redeemed in the eyes of yourself - which is often the harshest judge of all. Remember mistakes are human and I have found so many people who dislike or even hate themselves for what the did at some point in their life and it may be that self-forgiveness is the first step. When you wake up, you will see that your worst behaviour means nothing in the big picture, but each moment presents a jewel of opportunity to love yourself and others, to love the world, to taste the nectar of helping those who are lost in a sea of suffering. There is nothing higher than that the joy of genuine love of what is in front of you...but such love may require suffering by the way... It is not necessarily easy.
  • edited January 2012
    If there was no redemption, Bodhisattvas like Ksitigarbha would be meaningless. If you feel he is meaningless, maybe you should examine your own behaviour and thoughts.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    this is merely a personification and embodiment of positive Mind-states anybody may enter into...
    some may perceive him as real, but to place trust in him is to recognise and revere the worthiness within.
    But as a bodhisattva he is a prime example of how you should treat yourself.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksitigarbha
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