Tough love versus crazy love

Jeffrey

First entertain me that there can be such a thing as mad love in just a mere mortal. Not a tulku. Not wise just a kid.

So I am thinking of my ex-roomate a girl who was an alcoholic and we were codependent and I bought her smokes and booze and we both take care of eachother emotionally sometimes. So it was NOT tough love.

But it was crazy love. It had no agenda. For us to be other than what we were. My ex once gave a bum a smoke. I think that's an example. It has no agenda about 'improving' someone. To a point it is idiot compassion, but lets face it a cigarette isn't going to make or break anyone hmmmm.. yeah at a point it is idiot compassion... But when not analyzed it is a gesture of the heart.

person

If love is the wish for another (or oneself) to be happy, then I think it is love. Mad love is love tainted by ignorance and craving, I don't know if hatred could be in there and it still be considered love though.

Jeffrey

@person I agree, but you have to step up to the plate in your life. You can't wait until you are free of ignorance and craving.

Dakini

It's not a good idea to go into a relationship thinking you can change or "improve" someone. Accepting someone as they are is love, unconditional love.

vinlyn

It's not a good idea to go into a relationship thinking you can change or "improve" someone. Accepting someone as they are is love, unconditional love.

You should go into a relationship assuming that the other person will remain as he/she is, with all their flaws. Then, if through the relationship, the other person improves...well, that's gravy. I have seen many a marriage that has failed because the man or woman thought they could change their mate after getting married. A recipe for disaster.

federica

You should go into a relationship assuming that the other person will remain as he/she is, with all their flaws.

Actually, not even... you should go into a relationship fully expecting it - and the other person - to evolve, change transform and diversify, in ways and means you can never have complete control over.
The relationship needs to evolve, adapt and change in a mutually beneficial way... but you cannot insist or instil in the other person, changes which suit your whims to their detriment....

Then, if through the relationship, the other person improves...well, that's gravy. I have seen many a marriage that has failed because the man or woman thought they could change their mate after getting married. A recipe for disaster.

I have seen this more as a prevalence amongst the young.... those who are experiencing relationships later in life, tend more to accept the reality of change, and letting be, and acceptance.....

Iktomi

Love is not rational, no.

federica

Love is perfectly rational.
we choose to hang labels on it, carry baggage, have issues and agendas, and cloud its essence....
The biblical definition of love is really extremely beautiful....

1 Corinthians 13

Love suffers long, and is kind; love envies not; love vaunts not itself, is not puffed up,
Does not behave itself rudely, seeks not her own, is not easily provoked, keeps no record of evil;
Rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
Bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see in a mirror dimly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abides faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Iktomi

No, tough love is rational.

AMH

Ahh, so the idea of giving a bum a smoke is interesting. I am of the Gen X era and have lots of Boomers in my life of course. I also saw differences between the more hippy people (I was in Bouder for 13 years) and the punk kids I hung with. So it was apparent that the hippy and/or boomer people cared. There was a lot of compassion, lots of talk about how the society and culture did not give the same chances to everyone. Hey that is true! But the punk/gen X people were not just slackers. I think we just hung around the streets and gave the homeless a smoke. We were pretty cynical but not judgemental.

So in any case that is my gross overgeneralization on the subject! I think there is a place to help in whatever way matters, if that is giving them a smoke then fine. There is also value in just treating people who are down on their luck, addicted, homeless, etc. like real people instead of an improvement project. I may be a cynic but there have always been some people like this, and as hard as we work there may always be some people who are codependant, addicted, homeless, or just plain messed up.

person

@AHeerdt Great point. Sometimes the wisest thing to do for some is simply to show some love. To give a dharma teaching to some vagrant may not be as helpful as just showing you care by giving a sandwich or a smoke.